Horse twisting shoes with pads / pedal osteitis

[EZ.keeper]

Hi all, I am at my wits’ end with keeping one of my horse’s shoes in place. He has been diagnosed with pedal osteitis in the past, via the whole rigmarole cumulating in forelimb MRIs, so I’m pretty confident in the diagnosis. Osphos has helped, along with rehab and pads. He is on comprehensive supplements, including extra biotin. He has normal sole depth but can present as foot sore under saddle when he first starts to trot.

He goes best in hard plastic full pads under steel shoes, with some dental impression material at the back around the frog. The pads are hard, slippery to the touch, and riveted to the shoes. The darling horse in question is 17H+ 1400#+ massive 9yo warmblood gelding in moderate dressage work, part time group turnout, part time stall/paddock. He is in double bell boots 24/7 - one softer pair and a harder pair over that - except when riding I take off the harder pair.

He manages to twist his shoes or sometimes in a physics defying manner, remove them. He does not usually overreach or interfere. They are not bent nor is there other indication that he or a friend have stepped on them. This has happened even in perfect conditions like turnout in an arena and I have a video of him playing the moment the shoe comes off and there is no reason the shoe should have come off. (ie, it’s not just in mud, or uneven turnout areas, or a friend stepping on them, etc. though he does play)

I would love any suggestions folks have. He does seem to need the pads and does not like sole pressure. Other pads did not work as well. He HATED pour in pads. Leather pads full or rim or double (one rim and one full) were not as good as the hard plastic ones, and he was losing the shoes with those pads. The hard plastic ones as super slippery which makes me wonder if they make it easier for him to twist them. I’ve had him about 3 years, with 2 different farriers (due to a move) and it’s been the same problem of him losing the shoes with both so I am less inclined to think it is a farrier issue. Both farriers are vet recommended in northern CA where there are good options for vets and farriers. My other horses in normal steel shoes keep them on, so again while my sample size is low, it does seem to be this particular horse and possibly his pad situation exasperating the problem, in addition to him being massive and enjoying using his body in his free time.

[IPEsq]

Anything between the shoe and the foot will make it easier to lose the shoe in the right conditions. It’s just not seated to the hoof as well as one without a pad. I haven’t particularly noticed a difference between the plastic ones and leather like you are describing, but it doesn’t surprise me. Does the horse wing out in movement? I’ve seen hind shoes twist and need extra nails, but I’m assuming you are talking fronts here? Perhaps the breakover is not quite right. I know one farrier that works a lot on OTTBs that uses glue + nails on steel shoes to try to get them to hold up to the extracurricular activities.

[NaturallyHappy]

Our farrier uses these pads very successfully w our horses who need pads. We’ve not had a problem in turnout. We did have problems with those hard plastic pads. This pad is also available in a full pad; you can see them on the website. I hope this helps you.

[SashaBast]

Sigafoos series 1 with DIM full pad? Client’s horse with pedal osteitis went in them for a year or so.

Softride gel max with kevlar cuff (not nailed on) really helped my chronic shoe puller who also has pedal osteitis. I worked with a podiatrist for the horse’s set up. No shoe pulling, or forging since. 1350 lb 17.1 h big boned horse with feet too small for the body.

https://softrideboots.com/softrider.php

[Warmblood1]

I have a horse that does best in pads/shoes but is a chronic shoe puller due to an over track and short back. The best way of managing it for us has been for the farrier to take a material like glue that hardens (I’m sorry I don’t know the exact material that is used) and apply it to the back of the heel area so that the shoe did not have any sort of lip or area to grab the shoe from the back.

[EZ.keeper]

@IPEsq

Does the horse wing out in movement? I’ve seen hind shoes twist and need extra nails, but I’m assuming you are talking fronts here? Perhaps the breakover is not quite right.

IPEsq, thank you for your response. The horse does not wing out. And yes this is front shoes that are the issue. I will look further into the breakover. Thanks!

[EZ.keeper]

Thank you, @NaturallyHappy! I will check these out.

[EZ.keeper]

@SashaBast

Sigafoos series 1 with DIM full pad? Client’s horse with pedal osteitis went in them for a year or so.

Softride gel max with kevlar cuff (not nailed on) really helped my chronic shoe puller who also has pedal osteitis. I worked with a podiatrist for the horse’s set up. No shoe pulling, or forging since. 1350 lb 17.1 h big boned horse with feet too small for the body.

@SashaBast, thank you for these recommendations! It sounds like you used glue for both of these products. My farrier is not keen to use glue on this horse because of the damage to the hoof when removing them, but it might be the only option to keep a shoe on at this point given how trashed his walls are from twisting the steel shoes with clips twice - I am not sure nails will hold them on. At minimum, he is going to not use clips next time.

[EZ.keeper]

@Warmblood1

I have a horse that does best in pads/shoes but is a chronic shoe puller due to an over track and short back. The best way of managing it for us has been for the farrier to take a material like glue that hardens (I’m sorry I don’t know the exact material that is used) and apply it to the back of the heel area so that the shoe did not have any sort of lip or area to grab the shoe from the back.

@Warmblood1, thank you for this suggesting, which I will also look into. My horse with this issue does have a short back (of course), in addition to the other challenging factors! I have him in double bell boots too.

[NaturallyHappy]

@EZ.keeper

My farrier is not keen to use glue on this horse because of the damage to the hoof when removing them

My farrier has similar thoughts on glue….

[fivestrideline]

@EZ.keeper

My farrier is not keen to use glue on this horse because of the damage to the hoof when removing them

YMMV but I’ve not seen any damage at all from removing glue ons? I’ve not used them myself but a few in previous barns did. That’s kind of the point of glue - but maybe it depends on the type of adhesive and method of removal? There is much more damage to the foot when they rip off a chunk of wall along with the shoe, and just the nail holes in general (especially if they don’t grow down very fast).

I DO know that plenty of farriers hate glue and aren’t comfortable with it and thus find glue ons a huge hassle. I’d be more inclined to believe the farrier just doesn’t have the experience and/or desire to comfortably do glue ons.

[NaturallyHappy]

@fivestrideline

. I’d be more inclined to believe the farrier just doesn’t have the experience and/or desire to comfortably do glue ons.

That is very untrue of mine…maybe others, but not the person I know.

[Demerara_Stables]

How is he after he pulls the shoe? Lame or sound? I 100% believe some horses pull shoes because they don’t want to wear them and they think they are more comfortable without. It sounds like he probably needs shoes, but just curious how he does without.

Also, how’s his hoof quality? When he pulls them, are the nails coming out or staying in? Is he pulling chunks of hoof off? If he has a poor quality hoof, that will allow the shoe to come off easier. That can only be fixed through nutrition (and making sure he’s absorbing the nutrition, so confirming there are no ulcers or intestinal parasites). Growing a whole new hoof of higher quality takes a full year.

[NaturallyHappy]

@Demerara_Stables

I 100% believe some horses pull shoes because they don’t want to wear them and they think they are more comfortable without

I thought your entire post was very helpful; this is especially intriguing to me. The two we had in hard plastic pulled them. When our very talented farrier swapped them, he put one in leather and the other in the pad I posted above. Problem solved.

[EZ.keeper]

@Demerara_Stables, thank you for your thoughts and questions.

@Demerara_Stables

How is he after he pulls the shoe? Lame or sound? I 100% believe some horses pull shoes because they don’t want to wear them and they think they are more comfortable without. It sounds like he probably needs shoes, but just curious how he does without.

I don’t work him if he’s pulled a shoe so I cannot say how he goes. I have tried no pads and different pads, and he was off with them. He is an extremely tolerant horse when it comes to human nonsense, so I don’t see him removing a shoe intentionally.

@Demerara_Stables

Also, how’s his hoof quality? When he pulls them, are the nails coming out or staying in? Is he pulling chunks of hoof off? If he has a poor quality hoof, that will allow the shoe to come off easier. That can only be fixed through nutrition (and making sure he’s absorbing the nutrition, so confirming there are no ulcers or intestinal parasites). Growing a whole new hoof of higher quality takes a full year.

Hoof quality is thankfully quite good and he has good sole depth. When he removes the shoe, there is minimal damage if I catch it right away, but if he rams around in turnout for hours, less so. When the shoes with clips twist, that of course damages the walls.

[Demerara_Stables]

My client horses are all in a herd so I’ve transitioned a lot of horses to barefoot all around or just barefoot behind. I have one now that was supposed to be in 4 shoes/pads for various reasons. We pulled her hinds when she came and she keeps pulling her (glue on!) fronts and is totally sound without them, even on hard dirt. I’ve had others that just won’t keep them on and we finally give in and they thrive barefoot 🤷

[Demerara_Stables]

Good to hear there’s minimal damage. When he pulls a shoe, does he still get turnout? How is he when he’s just walking from stall to paddock? I agree that riding him with a flat tire isn’t advisable. Can you put a boot on the naked foot and see how he goes?

As far as suggestions, my personal horse is in the Easy Care Versas which act like a shoe/pad. They are pretty hard plastic and come in nail on or glue on versions. Might be worth a shot? Your farrier can grind the edges down a bit to adjust rollover or trim the back so there’s less shoe to catch. https://easycareinc.com/easyshoe/EasyShoe-Versa-Grip.asp

[SashaBast]

Welcome! The podiatrists from Rood and Riddle that i work with, the other podiatrist I used, and another farrier I’ve worked with have successfully used glue on shoes for years with zero damage to the hoof wall in their practises. Properly applied glue on shoes do not damage the hoof wall.

Maybe your vet could reach out to Rood and Riddle Podiatry in Lexington, KY for a consult?

Hope you and your team find a solution for your horse! I totally understand how frustrating it can be!

[barnesthenoble]

I would also suggest the farrier at UC Davis since you’re in NorCal. He does quite a bit of glue-on work, and has also found that properly applied glue-ons do not cause damage to the hooves. Hooves that are damaged by glue are usually some combination of poor application and prep, poor choice of shoe/glue for the environment/horse, and poor hoof quality (but even with poor hoof quality, proper prep and shoe choice can result in improved hoof quality, not worsening). There is definitely an art to it, and poorly applied glue-ons can absolutely cause damage, but well done work will not. Many HCPs (Daisy Bicking, Curtis Burns, UCD’s Shane Westman, R&R’s podiatrists, etc) have had horses in glue-ons continuously for years with no negative effects on hoof quality.

[EZ.keeper]

@Demerara_Stables

Good to hear there’s minimal damage. When he pulls a shoe, does he still get turnout? How is he when he’s just walking from stall to paddock? I agree that riding him with a flat tire isn’t advisable. Can you put a boot on the naked foot and see how he goes?

When he pulls a shoe, I put a Cavallo ELB boot on (with a leather pad inside the boot) and put him in a stall with small attached paddock. The boot fit is not great because his hooves are longer than they are wide, so even the slim size is quite wide and the boot can shift around. He is a massive big moving horse and I wouldn’t feel safe working him in the boot. He is sound walking from place to place.

Thank you for the EasyShoe Versa Grip recommendation. I will look into that shoe as well.