Horse won't leave starting gate

[NaturalSelection]

I’m shopping for a retiring TB to retrain for eventing/jumping. I found a promising candidate that is sound, has nice conformation and decent pedigree for sport. Raced 24 times over three years, hit the board 10 times, is now 5 yrs old. Last two races the horse was late leaving the gate. In the last race, so late that the horse doesn’t even appear in the race video, finish is recorded as DNF, but race comments say “dwelled in starting gate, but eventually crossed finish.”

How unusual is this behavior? Seems so counter-intuitive as I imagine most horses would want to leave with the herd, even if they didn’t want to run hard. What makes a horse do this? Is this indicative of an extreme behavior issue?

[McGurk]

Could be a lot of things, but mostly it means the horse no longer likes his job.

He could have been bumped badly leaving the gate in a previous race, he could be sore (symmetrically, so he doesn’t appear unsound, but no longer enjoys his work. He’s a little old for bucked shins, but they often manifest as barn sour/don’t want to go to the track/don’t want to work), he could have a hind end issue that makes the jump out of the gate painful but allows him to gallop and work normally.

If it’s possible, talk to whoever rides him in the morning; the probably have better insight into the behavior and what he’s like training day to day.

FWIW and YMMV, based on my experience with reclaiming TBs, I’d be hesitant about a 5 year old with that race record, because IME, the longer they raced and the more successful they were at it, the longer the reclaim process because the track behaviors are so deeply ingrained. A 3 year old that galloped so lacklusterly that they didn’t even bother getting him a gate card is an easier reclaim.

That said, racing 24 times and coming back sound is a great testament to this horse’s hardiness and potential longevity. Since you’re looking for an event prospect, that’s a consideration. I know Denny Emerson loves to find the real hard knockers coming off the track and reclaim them as event horses, so there’s something to that. I just believe it’s a longer process than with a 3 yo with a bad case of the slows.

Another thing, I’m assuming this horse is still intact?

[NancyM]

It’s not very common, but it happens. Usually fear and/or pain based. Especially if the horse has successfully left the gate in previous races, and has successfully completed previous races, something has changed for this horse recently. And that is usually a pain issue. He’s sore, and he is not looking forward to running at speed in the race, therefore he “dwells”. He is saying “NO”. Can also be a “fear” issue, due to something that happened in a previous race, being bumped hard by another horse, being injured by another horse, or being abused by the jockey in a previous race to the extent that he is not looking forward to the next time. The trainer and vets may or may not be able to find the location of a soundness problem, or know the source of the problem, but it may still be there somewhere. Doesn’t mean that the problem won’t heal and be sound again, with time and rehabilitation.

One side effect of working with a horse who has dwelled in the gate is that it can be a state of being “frozen”, which is basically so much fear and avoidance of the race that the brain quits working. The lights are on, but no one is home. In this situation, the horse is capable of doing “anything” without thought beforehand. The result of this is often flipping over, which can end up as being fatal for both the horse and/or the rider. If the situation that is bothering the horse is solved, and he is not asked to race again, and is not stuffed into a starting gate again, it may be that he will never freeze again, and he may be OK for you. But if you get this horse, watch him closely, make sure that he is “home” and thinking, that his eyes are not blank, shut down, in any situation that he finds stressful. Any horse can get this way, given enough stress in his life, but this one bears careful inspection with his history of dwelling in the gate. If he has a history of freezing in stressful situations, he may also have a history of flipping. Ask around about this. If he is a serial “flipper”, you probably don’t want to own him as a riding horse. He doesn’t want to be a racehorse any more, that is what he is saying.

Good luck.

[NaturalSelection]

Thanks for the feedback. The horse in question is a gelding. The responses reflect the basic reasoning I suspected, your experienced explanations make sense. I’ve purchased and retrained 10 racehorses in the last 15 years (as a skilled amateur), but haven’t seen one with a record like this before. It’s true, I usually seek out younger horses with fewer starts. However, I have one with only two starts that came off the track with a serious “no.” Perhaps why they quit with him so early.

Thanks for sharing the COTH wisdom!

[findeight]

Sounds like he has recently developed a serious no about going forward even with the bell and herd galloping away, something has changed with him. It’s probably pain related and IMO it could be expensive to figure out exactly what with many so physical conditions out there that can create this type thing in a horse that otherwise looks sound. Did he have a stumble at the break, slam into the gate support or get pinched back bad by others at the break the race before he stopped wanting to break?

They probably haven’t done any advanced diagnostics on neck, spine and pelvic areas. Those cost like heck, sometimes thousands. He would probably be one that needs a more extensive layup as well. Sounds physically and mentally pretty beat up by his track miles.

If you have the room for him as well as something else to ride, might take a chance time will heal both body and soul but if you board out wouldn’t be a great one to take a chance on.

Just speaking to non racers that refused to go forward due to diagnosed issues, that no forward thing doesn’t always go away when the horse recovers from its issues. Seems to stick in their minds even when the pain is gone…they never forget,

[LaurieB]

I wouldn’t automatically equate dwelling in the gate (apparently he did leave the gate, just not with the others) with not wanting to go forward in other situations.

And I certainly wouldn’t immediately jump to thoughts like “frozen” “brain quit working” and “flipping” either. Sometimes horses are just ready to be done racing.

It often seems like people are willing to shove every OTTB into the same small box when it comes to training and/or soundness issues rather than treating each as an individual. OP, it sounds as though you initially liked this horse for your purposes. If that’s still true, you might want to evaluate the horse in front of you instead of basing your decision on things that might have happened at other times and in other places. If you are no longer interested, there are obviously many other OTTBs to choose from.

[BeeHoney]

Agree with LaurieB, I think it is wise advice when purchasing OTTBs to look closely at the horse in front of you. Certainly, I think it is always wise to do your own evaluation for soreness/lameness or any kind of NQR issue. I’m careful about trusting people at the track’s opinions about soundness–IME many track people think that a horse that is sore is somehow magically going to be okay as a riding horse and that’s not always true. As far as the gate issue, I think it is hard to say much about what the cause is without seeing and evaluating the horse. Certainly it’s worth asking about any quirks or behavioral issues or any related incidents that may have contributed.

[Palm_Beach]

@NaturalSelection

I’m shopping for a retiring TB to retrain for eventing/jumping. I found a promising candidate that is sound, has nice conformation and decent pedigree for sport. Raced 24 times over three years, hit the board 10 times, is now 5 yrs old. Last two races the horse was late leaving the gate. In the last race, so late that the horse doesn’t even appear in the race video, finish is recorded as DNF, but race comments say “dwelled in starting gate, but eventually crossed finish.”

How unusual is this behavior? Seems so counter-intuitive as I imagine most horses would want to leave with the herd, even if they didn’t want to run hard. What makes a horse do this? Is this indicative of an extreme behavior issue?

It should be a nonissue if you are an experienced rider and trainer. If you like the horse, vet it and see what comes up.

[Gestalt]

My big ottb mare started pulling back when you’d try to lead her out of her stall in the morning. I had noticed a small bit of hair missing on her right hip. Turns out the barn help was bringing her out and turning her immediately to the right to go down the barn aisle. She hit that point on her hip so many times it hurt. I asked the barn guy if he would lead her straight towards the middle of the aisle and once her bum cleared the stall door then turn her. Problem solved. And she never showed resistance to moving forward except from the stall in the morning.

Your horses problem could be simple. You won’t know until you check him out.

[gumtree]

I’m with others, all things being equal it is basically meaningless. IMO and experience dealing with retired racehorse buyers. A lot of people read WAY too much between the lines of a horse’s race record. Only thing I would be concerned about is if the horse was ruled off or put on the stewards list. The horse’s age, years on the track is meaningless to me as far as being “re-trainable” IME.

[Big_Tag]

I don’t know. I feel like you can determine some stuff about a horse from its racing record. I personally would be a little leery of one that said “no go” repeatedly. I get that there could be–and likely were–extenuating circumstances that contribute to that. But, I am more interested in one that tries a bit anyway. Let’s say in a given field of ten, optimistically 9 of them are 100% sound, ready to go. How often do you see one stand there and say “NOPE.”
For this one to do it more than once; I wouldn’t touch that. OTTBs are generally awfully nice horses from a work-ethic standpoint. Unless this one is such a nice individual that you want to work with him through his “Yeah, I’m not gonna do that” response…if it were me, I’d pass.

[OdieJump]

I would most likely link this to pain. Either this is running from the gate has become a fearful process (possibly he was bit by another horse, tripped, the accidents are endless) I wouldn’t be concerned but having him checked by a vet will probably be necessary

[Calamber]

I say some horses just do not like the damned starting gate, and it has nothing whatever to do with what kind of horse they will be someday.

[Palm_Beach]

@Big_Tag

I don’t know. I feel like you can determine some stuff about a horse from its racing record. I personally would be a little leery of one that said “no go” repeatedly. I get that there could be–and likely were–extenuating circumstances that contribute to that. But, I am more interested in one that tries a bit anyway. Let’s say in a given field of ten, optimistically 9 of them are 100% sound, ready to go. How often do you see one stand there and say “NOPE.”
For this one to do it more than once; I wouldn’t touch that. OTTBs are generally awfully nice horses from a work-ethic standpoint. Unless this one is such a nice individual that you want to work with him through his “Yeah, I’m not gonna do that” response…if it were me, I’d pass.

“No go” is a training issue. Of course you need to pass if you can’t train. The good thing about horses that have a blatant “no” in them is that you get them in a learning situation real quick. I like that.

[Big_Tag]

@Palm Beach

“No go” is a training issue. Of course you need to pass if you can’t train. The good thing about horses that have a blatant “no” in them is that you get them in a learning situation real quick. I like that.

Fair point. And I come from an amateur point of view, with the ability to only have one horse. Even with a trainer, I’d just rather pick one with less of an issue. It seems to me so many of them (OTTBs) are pleasant from the get go, so for someone in my position, I would pass.

[findeight]

Whether it makes sense for OP to take a chance on this on very much depends on their individual situation, like availability of turn out, their experience and their flexibility time wise in let down and retraining. Also depends on who has handled him at the track, some are worth your respect and trust, others, not so much.

IME learned to be suspicious of sudden changes in behavior in any horse with any job. Would certainly not skip a vet check on this one if OP is equipped to take him on.

[NaturalSelection]

I have really enjoyed reading this discussion and appreciate all the responses. I’m in WI, horse is in OH, not planning to evaluate the horse in person. I’ve decided to pass, even before pursuing a PPE. The horse may be perfectly fine, but I think this behavior is unusual and difficult to evaluate at the track (without riding), let alone remotely. Thus, this horse is probably better suited to someone more experienced than me or with different timelines and goals. I’ll keep shopping for another candidate, no hurry.

[findeight]

Good idea if you buy sight unseen and don’t know his connections. Sometimes networking turns up more prospects then trying to go it alone. Try contacting CANTER and/or New Vocations, tell them what you are looking for, maybe they can keep an eye out for you. Sometimes it’s who you know more then what you know shopping for prospects out of your immediate area.

[Sunflower]

Then again, there is the story of Mad Moose, http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/quirky-mad-moose-makes-dressage-debut-531748, who said no to the hurdles and no to the flat, and seems to be doing very well in his new career as a dressage horse. https://twitter.com/SophieBurkin

[SaratogaTB]

It means he’s smart and trying to tell his connections that he’s done racing and needs a new career.