Horse won't tolerate 24/7 turnout?

[Amy3996]

I’m wondering if anyone else has had this experience… my horse just doesn’t seem to want any part of 24/7 turnout. I’ve seen all the evidence that being outside 24/7 is beneficial for horses, and lots of people at my barn opt to leave their horses outside when the weather’s nice. We’ve tried it in the past, but he either stands at the gate whinnying to be brought inside, or he runs himself ragged and works himself into a lather until he gets to come in.

We’ve tried giving him time to adjust, but he genuinely seems to want his stall time at night. Am I being reasonable in thinking that the benefits of constant turnout aren’t worth him stressing himself out so much, and it would be better to just stick with daytime turnout/stalled at night?

[kiwichick]

I havent had one but we did have one at a barn I was at.
He showed extreme anxiety at turnout and preferred to be stabled alone, even when the other horses were out.
The strange thing though is that the behaviour eventually flipped, eventually he could no longer come in, as was displaying the extreme anxiety inside, and last I know, he was outside 24/7 even when the rest came in.

[retiredhorse]

Is he out with other horses? That makes a big difference with some of them, if they can be in turn out with another horse, not just individual paddocks. Is there a particular horse he is attached to that goes inside? Have you tried a different turn out location? Maybe there’s coyotes or something out there at night that are upsetting him? If you can’t find a turn out solution that works for him outside, I would bring him in at night.

[Amy3996]

He goes out alone as he’s shod all around and my BM prefers not to put horses with hind shoes out with others in turnout. I agree, especially since they wouldn’t be supervised at night. Better safe than sorry. He doesn’t seem attached to any of the other horses - in fact, he’s happy stalled at night currently even though he’s the only horse inside on his side of the aisle (there are a couple of other horses in the next aisle over).

Barn manager keeps asking me why I don’t put him out at night. She was there for the previous failed experiment with 24/7 turnout, and sees his anxious behavior when he’s left out. We tried switching paddocks and putting different horses around him to see if he’d settle, but nothing changed. Obviously 24/7 turnout would be ideal, but maybe he just can’t deal with it? This is an 18 year old who I’ve had for 3 years. He showed on the A Circuit in the hunters and the Big Eq before I got him. To my knowledge, he’s never had 24/7 turnout in his life. Maybe it’s too much of an adjustment for him?

[Critter]

My old mare does not tolerate night turnout…we’ve tried a few times in the past. Poor girl would look utterly exhausted, like she didn’t relax all night. She wasn’t one to run or fuss either…and was always out with others. She just preferred the comfort of her stall. My old gelding only liked to be out in “nice” weather…not too cold, nice grass, not too hot, and minimal bugs. He would fuss and carry on if he didn’t come in when he wanted…he was perfectly content to be in his stall…no matter where any of the horses were (he showed quite a lot, so was used to stall time). For them being inside is/was relaxing…and they had ample time to go outside, so they always come/came in at night. If he’s happy in at night…why stress him out by trying to do 24/7 turnout?

[SusanO]

My three HATE being out 24x7 except during the winter when the bugs are dead. And even then two of them don’t sleep well outside - they like to snooze in their stall. The other prefers to sleep outside. Now that the gnats and flies are out they are very unhappy to be outside during the day so I put them outside at night. The one mare will leave the sight of the other two ( in separate pasture) and come around the barn to come stand in the stall by herself. She prefers to be out of the bugs than socialize. She is technically “out” 24x7 because her stall door is open but spends a lot of the time in her stall. And don’t lock her out of her stall - she will find a way to tear something up to get back inside. And if it is raining…

Some horses however prefer to be outside all the time. Even in the bugs. I suspect if he has been a show horse he likes to spend some time out of the wind, cold, bugs, although horses do better in the cold than people do. Each horse is an individual.

[joiedevie99]

Yes, it sounds like he is not a good candidate for the 24/7 situation you have. I wouldn’t keep trying.

That doesn’t mean he won’t tolerate 24/7 turnout at some point in his life, in a more suitable situation. Lots of horses who never had turnout during their show careers adapt when moved to a low key facility and allowed to settle in with suitable friends.

[Amy3996]

Thank you for the insight! I appreciate it. Most, if not all, of the horses at the barn where I board are out 24/7 during the warmer months. My BM keeps pushing the issue, despite my explanation that he won’t settle being outside all the time and her having witnessed our failed previous attempt. He’s happy and healthy with his current routine (out during the day, in at night). “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” is kind of my feeling about it, but I’m also the odd one out since pretty much everyone else has their horses out 24/7.

Then comes another issue - BM wants horses out full time while still charging for stall board. The boarding agreement for stall-kept horses is daytime turnout, stalled at night, so I’m having trouble understanding why this is up for discussion. Again, I seem to be the only one with this concern, since the other stall boarders (and their horses) don’t seem to have any issue with being outside 24/7.

I’m coming to the realization that I may need to have another conversation with my BM and see if I can get her to understand why 24/7 turnout isn’t the best option for my individual horse.

Sorry for the lengthy posts… frustrated and needed to vent.

[puzzle]

24/7 turnout is great, but some horses just don’t like it period, and some horses only like it in the perfect situation. Sounds like having “stall board” horses outside 24/7 is easy and work/money saving for BM, but that’s not what you’re paying for. It doesn’t work for your horse - end of story. If the BM won’t drop it after a polite conversation, you might have to move :/.

[Gainer]

It sounds like you need to find another barn. It shouldn’t be so hard for your BM to understand that some horses are just not happy being out 24/7. I’d also be more than a little annoyed to be paying for stall board and the horse not being in said stall.

I have an old show horse that will jump the fence if he feels you’ve left him out a little too long. 12 hours is his limit, then he absolutely must come in.

[fordtraktor]

I prefer out 24/7 and have always paid for stall board and requested the BO leave my horses out 24/7 as much as possible except for meals. I like to have a stall for potential stall rest, bad storms, etc.

i would have an issue with my horse alone in the barn by himself then on individual turnout by himself. Can you ask to have him moved next to the horses that also come in half the time? He should not have to be alone. His social needs are not being met, of course he is anxious.

is he a kicker? If not surely there is some quiet buddy he could have outside. I have some with back shoes together, but they are not kickers. No issues besides the occasional hair scrape. My horse that is a jerk in turnout needs to be alone regardless of his showing situation.

the BO likely believes all horses are happier and healthier long term if left out as much as possible. That isn’t wrong as a general rule, but as a BO you have to deal With the actual horse. I have a similar stall board barn and leave them out 24/7 as much as I can. But one mare has some lameness issues that require she is stalled half the day. I make sure she has a good buddy in the adjacent paddock so she doesn’t get lonely, and she can always see him and sniff noses over her Dutch door, etc. It is not cool to leave one alone in a barn. When I have someone on stall rest I always bring in a horse as a “friend” to put next to the stalled one.

i don’t think it is wrong for the BO to gently suggest she thinks the horse has improved and may be ready to try again, though. I have had a few that needed to “work up” to lots of turnout but ended up happier. It takes time. Ask why she thinks things might be different now and explain you are nervous about trying.

also, in most areas with half turnout it is out during the day/in at night during winter, in during day/out at night summer. I wouldn’t want my horse out in the hot, buggy part of the day and in the barn when it is nice in the summer.

[S1969]

@Amy3996

He goes out alone as he’s shod all around and my BM prefers not to put horses with hind shoes out with others in turnout. I agree, especially since they wouldn’t be supervised at night. Better safe than sorry. He doesn’t seem attached to any of the other horses - in fact, he’s happy stalled at night currently even though he’s the only horse inside on his side of the aisle (there are a couple of other horses in the next aisle over).

Barn manager keeps asking me why I don’t put him out at night. She was there for the previous failed experiment with 24/7 turnout, and sees his anxious behavior when he’s left out. We tried switching paddocks and putting different horses around him to see if he’d settle, but nothing changed. Obviously 24/7 turnout would be ideal, but maybe he just can’t deal with it? This is an 18 year old who I’ve had for 3 years. He showed on the A Circuit in the hunters and the Big Eq before I got him. To my knowledge, he’s never had 24/7 turnout in his life. Maybe it’s too much of an adjustment for him?

I think a lot of horses wouldn’t like to be outside at night alone. They are prey animals and being alone in the dark isn’t a relatively safe position for a horse. It may be impossible for a horse like this to sleep because they can’t relax without the protection of a trusted herd or the protective confines of a stall.

In addition to that - not all horses like turnout, just like some horses can’t tolerate being stalled. The “benefit” of 24/7 turnout is being able to move to a preferred place/position - but if they prefer to be in the stall - that is fine.

My horses are out 24/7 but always have access to their stalls which open to the paddock like run-ins. I think they often come in at night to sleep and then go back out together.

I would do what works for your horse, and if the BO isn’t going to support that, I would look for other boarding options.

[Texarkana]

All horses should be able to tolerate 24/7 turnout in the appropriate situation. Problem is, not all barns can provide options that are appropriate for all animals.

Having to be alone in a paddock overnight is definitely a situation that not all animals will tolerate.

If the horse needs hind shoes and the barn rule is no group turnout with hind shoes, you’re at an impasse. If it were me, I’d just bring him in at night.

[PrincessPonies]

My two hate 24/7 turn out. They get very upset if the don’t come in. I know the one just likes to sleep in the shavings. As for my other she’s been on 24/7 turnout in the past but it isn’t good for her. For whatever reason her body can’t tolerate it and will get stiff or lame of out all the time. She needs the time in her stall and she’s happy there. I see no reason to force your horse to accept it.

[Jungle_Monkey]

My three will not tolerate 24/7 turn out and very rarely even like to be out for more than a few hours. Maybe all day in the winter if the day is perfect but very rarely. And they will run through fences, run themselves lame etc…not just out looking sad and unhappy.

[Nestor]

I find that the best situation for horses to get as much turnout as possible is a run-out stall situation. So they can bring themselves in when they want, and go out when they want. It keeps them moving, but they have a “safe” space away from bugs, creatures, weather, etc. Perhaps your horse would prefer that?

But if he’s happy being out all day and just wants to be in at night, I’d do that! My horse went from no turnout when I started riding him, to a few hours a day, to now anywhere from 8-14 hours a day (depending on weather and time of year). As long as the horse is happy and healthy, I don’t stress about how much they are in vs. out.

[EmilyM]

If he was previously a show horse as you’ve described, he likely was not on 24/7 turnout. while he may eventually acclimate, it won’t happen straight away. if he can’t be supervised sounds smart to bring him in. if he’s chill inside alone, that’s great. I have a tb x Dutch that absolutely would never deal well with 24/7 turnout. He does prefer night turnout to day. Something to consider trying. i think it’s mostly because it’s less buggy and the sun isn’t beating down on him. Of course that can be nerve wracking if you’ve never tried it before. In my humble experience, most horses prefer night turnout in the warmer weather to day turnout. could be my set up, could be just my experience. who knows.

[halt]

We have almost exclusively TBs, which generally lead very regimented, consistent schedules during their racing years. Every single one has acclimated and they all love being outside 24/7… I almost never see them in the run-in unless it is miserably cold & rainy. Snow, sleet, sunshine, they’re all outside eating/grazing.

Couple of things: people reinforce the gate-standing/walking by bringing the horse in any time it acts up. You mentioned he runs until someone brings him - sounds like he has learned if he runs around, someone will come and get him and bring him in… This is a common mistake made by people, and they don’t realize how it just reinforces and encourages the behavior of running.

Most horses who have not had 24/7 turnout are anxious to get back to the barn because that’s their schedule, not because it’s good for them – and it’s also where the grain is. Make sure to feed away from the gate, and don’t bring him in ever and then grain him.

Secondly, he would do much better with a friend. Most of the time that there is paddock misbehavior, from pacing, fence walking, calling, etc, is because they’re acting out because they’re unhappy with their lack of social support - horses are social creatures, and need other horses to feel secure.

I have not had a horse “not tolerate” 24/7 turnout. It does take time, and you have to go the route of “benign neglect” and not reward their misbehaviors by bringing them in. It usually takes about 2-3 days for a horse with a friend, and 2 weeks of consistent turnout with no being brought in over misbehaviors for a horse with no friend.

Does he have a shed to hang out in?

[Amy3996]

@halt Unfortunately, BM is pretty firm on the “horses with hind shoes go out alone” policy, so I can’t get him a buddy. After talking with both vet and farrier, pulling the hind shoes is not really an option for him because he needs the support.

At both this barn and the one I was at previously, the horses were brought in if they started running - management believes it prevents injury, and also keeps the horse running around from creating a commotion and upsetting the rest of the horses. So yes, I can definitely see where that behavior has been reinforced.

My secondary issue with 24/7 turnout for him is that there is no run-in shed in the paddock where he’d be turned out. During the day that’s not as big of an issue, because if the weather is bad or it gets really hot, he can be brought inside out of the elements. If the weather gets bad in the middle of the night, he’s stuck out there with no shelter.

[betsyk]

I’m curious about what the trigger is for the running/pacing “I wanna go in” behavior. Does he get set off by a feeding schedule? or daylight? Does it happen if nobody is watching?

I have a horse who’s the opposite - hates being in a stall, doesn’t really matter if it has a window or a stall guard, really doesn’t like a shed with a tiny paddock much, either. She weaves and paces if people are around, does it a little less when the barn is dark and quiet at night, and starts again as soon as you open the door in the morning to start chores. She was on stall board for 2 years before I owned her and was absolutely miserable the whole time. I think we owe it to them to listen when they’re really unhappy and do what we can, within reason, to match the living situation to the horse we have. Mine is a different animal when she’s outside 24/7 year round.