Horses damaging asphalt?

[Caol_Ila]

Here’s one for the internet masses. We are all aware that roads can inflict damage on horses, but can horses damage roads? The drive into my barn, probably 300-odd meters, was a pothole riddled mess. This week, they repaved the drive with fresh tarmac so it’s a lovely, smooth drive. The smooth surface also really suited my 27-year old mare, and she felt a lot less arthritic. But good things must come to an end. The barn manager sent out a message telling us that we could not ride or lead horses along the drive because the company that laid the tarmac had apparently informed her that the horses would damage the surface. The alternative – if one wants to access the extensive trail system in the neighboring park – are these muddy, boggy gallop tracks that run parallel to the road, but they are like a WWI trench. Not ideal for my arthritic horse, who is under vet advice to be ridden on hard surfaces. But I got zero sympathy when I pointed that out.

But seriously, can horses damage tarmac? Is that a thing? Google searches have been unenlightening. I mean tractors, large trucks, etc. will be regularly using the road. I am baffled, but maybe I’m in the wrong and it is a thing, but why the hell put in a road that horses can’t use at a busy equestrian center. Nope, still baffled.

[Tucker5]

Unfortunately, horseshoes do cause damage to asphalt. Google “Amish road damage” and you’ll get a bunch of articles from the U.S. on the subject.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thedailyreporter.com/news/20160916/no-help-for-road-damage-from-amish-buggies%3Ftemplate=ampart

[eightpondfarm]

my Dad had his driveway asphalted. It was a lonnnnnng and curvey-hill too. In order to drive my harness horse up it i had to have titanium studs put on her shoes. Dad wasn’t very happy when he learned about that, but try as he might, he never could find damage.

[Caol_Ila]

If you start digging into the Amish stuff, including DoT papers, it sounds like the road caulks they use cause a significant amount of the damage. No one at my yard has road caulks and nothing on that road is moving faster than a walk.

The roads in the photos in the news stories look like 90% of the public roads in Scotland, where no one in their right mind would ride or drive a horse (you would die). We do a brilliant job with mega potholes without horse-drawn buggies.

Entertainingly, the section of driveway at the barn that sees heavy and unavoidable horse traffic but very little vehicle traffic (due to barn layout) is completely pothole-free. Go figure.

[Janet]

Not sure if it makes a difference to the answer to your question, but is it asphalt or tarmac? They are different things.
Asphalt is bitumen and gravel.
Tarmac is tar and gravel.
Asphalt is said to be more “hard wearing”, and more resistant to extreme weather than tarmac.

[RedHorses]

I wonder how much of that was paving the way for a warranty denial in future because the company warned them that horses could damage the surface…

[Caol_Ila]

I believe it’s asphalt.

Redhorses, that could very well be true. I wrote a news feature about potholes a few years ago, when all the roads in the Highlands looked like they were at a bombing range, and I spoke to some road engineers. They told me that potholes are caused by poor drainage and road construction done on the cheap. If the road is not properly sealed and water sits on it, you get water ingress, and that causes more cracks in the structure. Add heavy things like cars to it, and the road falls apart. Obviously I have no idea if the new barn road has been built with sufficient drainage or properly sealed, but I know they didn’t really dig up the old one. They laid about six inches of new road on top of it.

[Willesdon]

Walking down a road, it is possible to see where horses have been because the shoes leave silvery marks on the surface. There is no sign, however, that the tarmac surface is broken or even chipped.

I think this is plausible deniability by the contractor as putting a surface skim over an existing broken surface generally doesn’t last.

[Foxglove]

I live in a predominantly Amish area. Borium shoes are on every buggy horse going down the road. Due to excessive cost in road repairs due to damage caused by shoes, the county just north of me but over the state line banned borium shoes. As these are preferable for hunt horses in the icy winter conditions, I began an illicit horse shoe smuggling operation taking borium shoes from my county over state lines to the hunt club…probably the FBI will catch me at some point …

[Caol_Ila]

Willesdon is probably spot on. No one has borium, and quite a few horses are barefoot.

[LSMarnell]

A someone who lives near Amish country, the horses definitely damage the roads. Much to the angst of people who live there and drive cars there, because the Amish don’t pay taxes to fix said road damage.

A barn I used to board at had this rule after she paid a ton of money to pave the driveway. The trail head was right at the end of the drive, but we had to ride alllllllllll the way around the whole property on the edge and exit the rear instead of walking on the asphalt. I have to admit it’s one of the reasons I left that place. However, my best friend stayed there. And after about 5 years the BO finally relented. Well, there was quite a bit of noticeable cracking and scraping on the drive after about a spring/summer of allowing riding on it. If I was the BO its not something I would be that upset over after 5 years. But if I had just freshly paid for the drive? Yes, I would be upset.

You call yours “a busy equestrian center.” The problem with that is its not JUST YOU wanting to do this!

[Caol_Ila]

At what speed to Amish horses usually travel? Walk? Trot? I’ve never lived in or near Amish country so I genuinely have no idea.

The document I read from the PA department of transport suggested that road nails/caulks/pins (whatever you want to call them) cause most of the damage. Does an unshod horse or a horse with straight shoes – no borium – cause damage to any noticeable degree? More so than cars?

This is the general state of many roads in this country that never see a horse: https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/road-chiefs-blame-bad-weather-11990877

OPINION: We Need to Talk About Potholes

Weather and road construction and maintenance seem to be more significant.

[LSMarnell]

Well, you are right in that there is probably a case to be made that unshod hooves are unlikely to cause damage to asphalt. And that is the way I would frame it to your BO. Maybe propose a rule that only unshod horses can walk on the drive.
But, the reason that people who ride on asphalt, (even regularly have to cross asphalt, not even so much ride on it) have their horses shod with borium, drive in pins, etc., is because asphalt is slick as ice on a flat shod hoof. Yes, even at a walk.
I think you would find that if your fellow boarders who have plain shod horses were allowed this privilege, they would quickly realize that they need at least drive-in caulks to stay safe. And, yes, that is what damages it. One horse doing this maybe wouldn’t be that noticeable. But a busy equestrian center’s worth? Absolutely.

[Caol_Ila]

If people thought they needed road caulks or wanted them, they would be using them. After you leave the barn drive, you have about a kilometre of roadwork on a public road before you get to the off-road trails. Everyone who hacks out has spent hours riding on roads. Just doesn’t seem like road caulks are a big thing here.

[Janet]

@Caol_Ila

At what speed to Amish horses usually travel? Walk? Trot?

Mostly a trot. Sometimes a very fast trot. Some of their horses are ex-harness-track Standardbreds.

[tabula_rashah]

I don’t see how PA could notice Amish horses “damaged” the road when the road is 90% potholes to begin with lol

[Abbie.S]

Yes, I kept picture Vermont roads and thinking the same thing. I love when we get to this point in the winter/spring and you start to see the road crews come out and dump piles of asphalt into the potholes to fill them, knowing full well that will get washed out in the next thaw cycle and it’ll be back to being a hole.

[Caol_Ila]

Right. Someone needs to study the degradation of PA roads outside of Amish country, versus the degradation of PA roads within Amish country, and that might tell us whether or not the buggies are causing significant damage, or in fact suggest that the state of Pennsylvania is as shit as everywhere else at maintaining roads. Except for Switzerland. There are no potholes in Switzerland.