Horses Not Attending WEF With Rest of Barn/Program — Untapped Market?

[TinFoilHat]

Kind of a random thought… but for the horses that don’t end up making the trip to Florida/WEF/winter circuit, think like the saintly-but-not-fancy schoolies or back burners, do you think there would be a market for/interest in offering my services to cost-effectively exercise these horses while the program/owner is away showing?

I’ve been trying to think of ways to cost effectively get more saddle time to ultimately reach my riding goals in 2025. A majority of my entire area migrates south for the winter circuit festivities, but in both my previous and current program, there are some horses left behind. In my previous program they were just lunged several times a week by the groom holding down the fort , and then in my current program, they’re all schooling horses/ponies, backburners or owned by someone who didn’t also migrate. So that got me thinking that there’s probably others left behind who could use an extra ride once or twice a week.

Not really trying to recreate the wheel over here. Personally, I’m not trying to gain skills through this per se; more so just want the muscle that comes with riding more than once a week. Only thing is that I will not jump someone else’s horses (I don’t want the liability that comes with that especially if the horse’s owner is not even in state). So flatwork, groundpoles and cavaletti will be “Gameplan.”

Obviously I know interest is ultimately going to vary by area, but just curious on the collective’s initial thoughts on if the “pitch” is logical at a high level before I begin getting into the nitty gritty of insurance/liabilities, legal considerations pursuant to my state and local jurisdiction, contract logistics and, of course, advertising.

[dags]

Think it would be very regionally specific but yeah, if there’s horses left behind that need exercise, and you have some sort of relationship with that team, it could be a great deal for everyone. My only notes would be that, assuming you are charging some sort of money for this (since you mentioned advertising), then you will be a pro per USEF. And these folks are probably paying their barn/team for some sort of care/maintenance while they’re stuck at home for the winter (ie, the grooms lunging), and they might not want to pay for an additional service (and the barn may not want them paying outside entities for services of this type, and may not even allow it).

In terms of a “pitch that’s logical at a high level”, I’m not sure it’s a huge business opportunity. If I was just looking for extra saddle time I’d probably keep it as simple as possible and not charge money… that solves the whole pro thing and also greatly lessens your liability. Assuming you have some other PT or FT job? So by the time you travel barn to barn, tack up/ride/untack, I can’t imagine it would be a ton of rides per week…?

I doubt you’d need to worry about jumping these animals, even caveletti work might be a stretch for some teams that wouldn’t be around to keep an eye on how things are progressing. I’d be emphasizing that I’m in no way “training” these horses, just stretching their legs and helping to keep up basic fitness.

[steelerino]

I think it’s fair to say if the barn is the type to leave for the winter then they more then likely have a team at home that takes care of this already.

[fivestrideline]

@dags

My only notes would be that, assuming you are charging some sort of money for this (since you mentioned advertising), then you will be a pro per USEF. And these folks are probably paying their barn/team for some sort of care/maintenance while they’re stuck at home for the winter (ie, the grooms lunging), and they might not want to pay for an additional service (and the barn may not want them paying outside entities for services of this type, and may not even allow it).

Everything Dags said, but especially this.

OP, this type of arrangement works best as a “free ride time” worked out with a program you’re already involved with. I don’t think many barns going down to WEF for the season are going to let a random stranger come ride their at-home horses. The practice horses and lesson horses usually have riders at home already or they are just given the winter off and lunged. They’re not the horses that need to stay legged up for the owner that is in Florida.

If you wanted to go pro, you might find a foothold by working with a trainer or two as an assistant/WS. But that’s if you wanted to start your own program, not just for extra saddle time.

This isn’t something I think you would be “advertising” outside of networking with your trainer or any barns you have an established relationship with. I’ve known a few grooms or body clip pros that have picked up rides because the trainer and owners knew them, as well as a few juniors that already catch-ride at shows that were asked to come hack sales horses.

If you’re looking for free ride time, networking is your friend. Keep an eye on local facebook pages as well, you’re more likely to find amateurs with horses at home that are looking for someone to come hack- I’ve done this for owners out with an injury or just with too many horses . Be careful, and be smart, but there are opportunities out there if you don’t have a crazy schedule.

[beowulf]

My experience is it is the other way around. They will expect you to pay for the privilege of riding their saintly and schooled horses.

Most barns near me already have one or two students who stay behind who will exercise; some of them even charge their students, too. Lol.

I think the model of people being paid to ‘exercise’ a horse has gone to the wayside in HCOL areas, which tend to coincide with buzzing H/J markets (that would be going to WEF). Either you are a trainer full stop and are paid for training services, or you pay to ride the horse. There doesn’t seem to be much a middle ground anymore for the experienced amateur looking for some ride time.

[findeight]

As owner of horses that stayed home while the A string went south for many years, most years there was a B string staff and horses that stayed home and took advantage of small winter circuits rated by regional organizations and some USEF rateds. The other larger barns in my area did the same.

Some owners gave their horses 6-8 weeks off as did I some years. Turn out only, hand walk/light lunge if turnout iced up which was included in the board. My barn used W-2 employees only and had 3’6” Eq Juniors and a few qualified Adult Ammy clients who could hack a few with no charge to owner. I rode a few like that but only when they were away on a summer circuit. No poles either, flat only.

Occasionally the barns down south worked together to have a stay at home assistant cover the home barns for each other in various short term situations. A known, qualified pro out of a known program would cover. Very much doubt barn insurance would cover a free lancer riding client horses and know I would not pay for one.

[Janet]

I am primarily involved in Eventing, but I have an old friend (over 50 years, since we were both pre-teens) who is an upper level hunter/jumper trainer, and takes horses to WEF each year. As it happens, we visited her for 3 days earlier this week. We went into NYC durng the day, but had plenty of time to talk in the morning and evening. 4 horses left for WEF on Monday, and another 10 on Tuesday, leaving 10 at home, a mixture of retirees, school horses, and client horses not going to Florida. She is going down today. So this is a sample of size 1, but still illustrative.

The assistant trainer (much younger than we are) has a boyfriend in the area, and so was happy not to go to Florida. She will keep the horses exercises.

I know that in prior years she has brought in a second trainer (not already part of her business) to deal with the horses and clients left behind. As I remember it, one of her concerns then was to have someone who wasn’t going to “steal the clients”.

But I never heard any discussion of hiring a freelancer.

[Belmont]

I agree.

Most circuit barns I know either pack up the entire barn (showing or not) and go OR have home help/a home trainer that stays home to exercise and give lessons to those that don’t go to circuit.

[TinFoilHat]

@dags

I’m not sure it’s a huge business opportunity. If I was just looking for extra saddle time I’d probably keep it as simple as possible and not charge money… that solves the whole pro thing and also greatly lessens your liability. Assuming you have some other PT or FT job? So by the time you travel barn to barn, tack up/ride/untack, I can’t imagine it would be a ton of rides per week…?

Excellent suggestions, thank you!

You’re correct in that this isn’t really to generate a profit - honestly, I would just charge enough to cover insurance to perform the job. Regardless of whether or not I’m being paid there’s significant liability (I’m an agribusiness insurance broker) so the insurance is a safeguard since I’m risk averse

You’re correct - honestly only trying to add in 2-3 days of ride time so again this isn’t going to be like a booming business or anything. Plus it’s seasonal since everyone eventually always comes back for better or for worse

@fivestrideline

OP, this type of arrangement works best as a “free ride time” worked out with a program you’re already involved with. I don’t think many barns going down to WEF for the season are going to let a random stranger come ride their at-home horses

I should have clarified this piece better so I apologize. Because of my “real life” job as an agribusiness insurance broker, I’m fairly well connected across the country (and, for this case, in my area) through that business and then my trainer and experiences as a rider.

@beowulf

There doesn’t seem to be much a middle ground anymore for the experienced amateur looking for some ride time.

This is what I’m realizing

[EmilyM]

I think there is. A lot of trainers can’t afford an assistant to stay behind. Or their assistant goes south, because, as I’m sure you know, it’s so much work at the show- you need more staff than when you are home with the same number of horses.

Lots of professionals will help fill the gaps for their fellow professionals. So clearly people need it. And I would think the programs would be happy not to have to hire someone full time. If you have the contacts and the ability no harm in inquiring to see if it will work.

Good luck.

[SCI]

When my last trainer went to FL (usually for a month), I would get to hack any horses that were left behind. I am an amateur, so no money was exchanging hands. It worked well for both of us.

[173north]

@beowulf

Either you are a trainer full stop and are paid for training services, or you pay to ride the horse. There doesn’t seem to be much a middle ground anymore for the experienced amateur looking for some ride time.

I agree with this. In my area either you pay to ride or you get paid to ride - I somewhat reluctantly went pro for a bit as a result because it was the best/only way to keep riding while laid off from my day job.

Charging a nominal fee to a trainer to hack their horses wouldn’t work where I am and would be confusing to trainers. Pitching a setup that’s not typical for either pros or ammies will make trainers think: so which are you? Are you an ammy, and if so, why would they pay you rather than have a client hack the extras at no cost — or half-lease the schoolies to the clients so they can make money, rather than spend it? Or are you a pro, and if so, why are you charging way under market rate?

If the main goal is getting some extra ride time, eating the cost of the insurance and offering to ride for free will probably get you a lot more interest. If you want to charge and go pro, I’d commit to it and charge market rate for pro rides.

[Foitin]

I sympathize, OP! I’d love to do the same thing. In my area, there is zero chance of riding safe mounts for free during the winter circuit. It is really hard even if you’re willing to pay. On issue is that the people who fly back and forth to FL every other week, for instance, need a horse to practice on or hack when they’re in the North. These people plus lesson-ers without their own mounts or with lame or rehabbing horses are all trying to ride the same horses. If you can ride half-broke pre-green ponies or known winter broncs, you will have better luck. I’d prefer the ponies over the broncs.

[Jsalem]

What I’m hearing is that you would like some nice horses to ride. Are you a pro with a good resume? In that case, you’d be looking for a job opportunity. But if you’re an amateur? I think you’re going to need to have a relationship with a training program in order for them to trust you with their horses. I can’t tell you how many inquiries I get from riders who “used to ride”, “want to get back into riding”, “want to get some saddle time”, “might want to lease something down the road”, etc, etc. Basically, lots of folks would love to be able to ride quality horses without the expense or commitment of ownership. But in today’s world, the owners have a lot of money invested in their horses and they are paying a lot to keep them in good programs. A legitimate program isn’t going to have some random amateur come and ride client horses.

My suggestion is that you find a program. You won’t ride for free but if you prove yourself to be reliable, competent and no trouble, some opportunities may come your way.

[findeight]

Good point upthread. The horses go down for 8+ weeks but some owners fly down Friday AM and back Sunday night and need something to ride at home so the stay at home horses often have client riders lined up.

Just don’t think the market of horses left at home needing riders is as deep as one might think.

[Mounted]

In my experience, there are often opportunities for competent riders to hack extra horses at the barn where they regularly ride and lesson. A trainer who is familiar with your skills (and is being paid to develop them) is much more likely to put you on extra horses than someone who doesn’t know you as well and doesn’t know, for example, how you would handle a fresh horse on a cold day, or one who comes out a little bit stiff, or one who keeps spooking by the gate. And owners may be a lot more comfortable if the ammy hacking their horse is at least someone they are used to seeing around the barn and have occasionally watched take a lesson. (Speaking for myself, I don’t mind if one of the barn teenagers occasionally hacks my horse when things are busy at the barn or my trainer is away. But I wouldn’t feel the same about a rider who I didn’t know and who wasn’t part of our barn family. If my trainer brought in another professional to help out regularly, I’d expect to meet that person, learn about her background, and see her ride.)

When there are extra horses to ride, it’s not always on a regular schedule. It’s when the regular rider or owner is sick or busy with work, or when something came up and the assistant is running behind, or something like that. If you want to ride Tuesday and Thursday afternoons, you are going to have to pay for that. If you are happy to get on a couple extra horses on the spur of the moment after your regular lesson, that’s convenient for all involved.

(And you have to be genuinely competent, in the saddle and around the barn, to get to ride other people’s horses unsupervised and for free. It’s not a bad thing for horses to have some time off in the off season. If they are left home while others are off showing for weeks or months, time off may be better than rides that do not improve their education and/or their physical condition. That is another reason that good programs can and will be picky about who rides the home crew, and may turn to those they know to ride well — the current clients, the former juniors home on college break, the home assistant at a nearby barn who has some extra time during the off season.)

[one1horse]

I do this for my trainer when she is in Florida (we are based outside of Boston). No money is exchanging hands at all. I am an amateur - NOT a trainer - so I flat or lunge the horses at home 3-4 days a week just to keep up a base level of fitness. That said - I am a client in her program, so this isn’t something she would offer to outside folks. In this case, the owners are happy because they know the person riding/handling their horses, that person is part of their horse’s program already, and they aren’t paying for exercise rides while their younger horses are racking up the show bills in Florida.

I agree with other sentiments here - I think there is room for what you are describing in the industry. But I don’t think it’s something you’ll be able to pull together outside of a program you already have an existing relationship with. Every program is looking for safe, known entities to help with this need. Hiring an amateur outsider isn’t likely to sound super appealing.

[TinFoilHat]

@Jsalem

What I’m hearing is that you would like some nice horses to ride.

To be fair, don’t we all?

I want to reach out to trainers/programs with a program moreso so I can utilize my network to ask about them. Do they have a reputation of having sketchy or dangerous horses come through their barn? Or possibly using client horses as lesson horses without the owner’s knowledge?

I’m trying to avoid unnecessary risk and dealing with a business seems like a more calculated risk than Sue Bob’s Tennessee Walker in her backyard that “hasn’t been exercises in a couple of months” (read: it’s been at least 2 years…… and the horse is only 4 years old)

@Jsalem

My suggestion is that you find a program. You won’t ride for free but if you prove yourself to be reliable, competent and no trouble, some opportunities may come your way.

To be clear, because a couple of other responses have possibly insinuated the above as well: I am, and have been, in a program.

I am half leasing from my trainer (and in regular lessons) currently but am looking to supplement this saddle time with a cost effective solution. Unfortunately, a full lease (plus lessons, showing, other training expenses) is not in my young family’s budget right now since I recently switched jobs and took an $80k pay cut (this is why I just sold my gelding that I owned back in August). Random amateur to some, yes, but a person freshly off of a hiatus, with no trainer/program/home barn (etc…), no.

The point of this thread was to see IF there would (possibly) be a point in even reaching out to my contacts in the area (and utilizing my trainer) to offer my availability. The goal on my end is to find a cost effective way to get additional saddle time to reach my riding goals. Unfortunately, a lot of my progress is being held up by simply needing to be riding more. I need to rebuild the muscle and muscle memory I once had and it sucks.

@Jsalem

Are you a pro with a good resume? In that case, you’d be looking for a job opportunity. But if you’re an amateur?

Amateur. If I was being paid then my status would obviously change (not as big of a deal in eventing/USEA but notable nonetheless of course).

Re: good resume - showing sells so, no. Although my aspirations have recently changed to prioritize showing, in the past, I’ve exclusively rode and refined the greenies. Have references for it and video and photo evidence of transformation, including my late gelding.

@Mounted

In my experience, there are often opportunities for competent riders to hack extra horses at the barn where they regularly ride and lesson.

Most of the horses in my barn are traveling down to FL (basically everything that is currently leased out and the 3(?) that are staying are for lessons only (then another two, including my half lease, that is used in a couple of lessons a week in addition to my time). So that’s out which is what led me to concoct this idea.

I have, however, been told that there could be irregular, random opportunities to school some of the ponies at our sister barn over the winter which will be helpful! But given the verbiage I’m not getting too excited until I see a plan.

@Mounted

When there are extra horses to ride, it’s not always on a regular schedule. It’s when the regular rider or owner is sick or busy with work, or when something came up and the assistant is running behind, or something like that. If you want to ride Tuesday and Thursday afternoons, you are going to have to pay for that. If you are happy to get on a couple extra horses on the spur of the moment after your regular lesson, that’s convenient for all involved.

This is an excellent point that I need to flesh out further. You’re totally right and, out of ignorance despite knowing better, I wanted it to be a scheduled type of thing. Great callout that that would more than likely not be the case.

[findeight]

@TinFoilHat

I’ve exclusively rode and refined the greenies. Have references for it and video and photo evidence of transformation, including my late gelding.

Cool. But most of the horses in barns that winter in Florida take their greenies with them to try to sell and those left behind are typically older, very made show horses that need to be ridden with finesse by a show trained rider with owners knowledge and permission. Not projects or problematic types.

Your trainer would be the place to start, perhaps they could help market you and your skills. Confuzzled here. Would you be charging for rides here?

[TinFoilHat]

@findeight

Cool

Already acknowledged this means nothing but thanks?

@TinFoilHat

Re: good resume - showing sells so, no.

Agree that show quality horses require a certain level of refinement. No disagreement here. I’m unclear where the assumption that I’m trying to ride show/top horses is coming from though… it’s not just you, several others have made similar comments.

But in my initial post, I specifically call out the not fancy ones and backburners… there’s no expectation to be given a free ride on a six figure horse… at least on my end.

@TinFoilHat

but for the horses that don’t end up making the trip to Florida/WEF/winter circuit, think like the saintly-but-not-fancy schoolies or back burners, do you think there would be a market for/interest in offering my services to cost-effectively exercise these horses while the program/owner is away showing?

@findeight

Would you be charging for rides here?

I’m not opposed to not charging if it means I get the ride time. I did mention above charging a nominal fee to offset insurance costs but others called out that if I really want the saddle time I should just eat the costs. Which is valid and fair, and frankly, $750/yr in prof liability is way less than (full) leasing/buying a horse will cost. So I’d still be coming out on top.