Horsetelex and % of xx/ox

[Elles]

Anita http://www.horsetelex.nl/pedigree.php?horseid=3774&maxniveau=6
XX/OX percentage : 0.2%

All known ancestors of Anita in the sixth generation and their blood content xx/ox:

GIRELLO
6.05%

LEONTA II
18.94%

REBUS
16.59%

CLEMATIS
12.49%

EICHBAUM
11.31%

SASCHA II
9.95%

REKRUT
17.56%

CARMINA
13.66%

GERFRIED
8.58%

NENETTE
10.34%

RITTER
13.85%

ELSMUNDE
5.85%

ROLAND III
20.7%

WANFRIEDE
15.81%

EBOR
8.19%

HEIDILA II and this goes on for these horses:
11.9%

EEKBOOM

ANNEMARIE II

GIRELLO

WALDREBE

RUDOLF

DEUTZIA III

MARTINIUS (33.01555.03)

XERRA

ADRIAAN

ENDA

But now lets take the sixth generation of a few of the above horses. Lets take:

GIRELLO
6.05%

LEONTA II
18.94%

Sixth generation of known horses in GIRELLO 6.05%

CARIGNAU 50% unknown pedigree
12.5%

GANYMEDE MARE 50% unknown pedigree
26.57%

SEDUCTEUR
53.13%

BLUCHER (BLUECHER)
0.2%

NELSON
17.78% and on and on it goes

Now let’s take the sixth generation horses in the pedigree of LEONTA II:

INTROUVABLE ¾ of pedigree unknown
19.53%

SEDUISANTE 50% of pedigree unknown
26.57%

FURST BISMARCK (FUERST BISMARCK)
0%

STUTE VON NELSON 4/8 of pedigree unknown
8.79%

YOUNG NORD 5/8 of pedigree unknown
28.13%

DAUGHTER OF CONSUL I 2/8 of pedigree unknown
75%

Etc. etc.

So it is obvious that we keep “loosing the blood” in horsetelex

[FLIPPED_HER_HALO]

My boy, a coming 4 year old Oldenburg by Sempatico out of my TB mare is 68% in horsetelex.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

Actually, if you go do Sempatico’s sire line starting with grandparents, it does support the theory that you lose xx/xo. That’s how bored I am at work today. I think the OP is right, or I’m missing something…

I was doing the math for my long yearling and it seems like she should have a higher percentage of xx/xo blood as well. She is 45% (although in type I’m pretty sure I could pass her off as a TB).
http://www.horsetelex.com/pedigree.php?horseid=608147&maxniveau=6
That said, Viti (Galoubet’s dam) is only considered 5.66% and in my mind I had sort of (obviously incorrectly) equated trotting blood with similar to TB blood. Which could get me off on a whole different tangent, because does that suggest that trotters are cold blooded?? I assume that xx and xo are TB and anglo–am I incorrect?

[Molly_Malone]

xx is TB, ox is Arabian

[LadyLox]

I have a problem with some of the percentages as well.

I don’t understand how a SF stallion can have 42% XX/XO when he is a son of Baloubet du Rouet and dam sire line is Ramiro (Ramzes)? And he looks very TB to me, slender and refined.

That doesn’t make sense to me…

How accurate are those percentages, anyways…?

[SuZQuzie]

(This seemed like the perfect way to use menial number input to put off my defense preparation.)

Based on HorseTelex, Horse A was 28.31% xx/xo, which is based off of only the past 6 generations. If a horse’s breed is Arabian or Thoroughbred, it shows up into that percentage. If a horse in the sixth generation of Horse A was 89.36% xx/xo, it would still only be counted in the percentage non-xx/xo.

Going back 8 generations, the horse is 37.44% xx/xo. At 10 generations, Horse A is 47.11% xx/xo. And, at 12 generations, he is 56.40719% xx/xo.

Hypothetically, a horse could really be upwards of 80% xx/xo, but only show up as a small percentage xx/xo because all the blood is past the 6th generation.

It is an imperfect system, but it is what is in place right now.

It’s kind of fun for an eventer, where xx/xo blood percentage is deemed the make-it/break-it of success. My eventing bred colt, out of a TB mare, would only be 57.81% xx/xo. Barely adequate. But, if I go back far enough, bam!, he is 78.21% and past the 75% threshold.

[Elles]

These are pictures of the horse Anita I have used for my XX/OX % breakdown in my first post.
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?showpic=689289&time=1312708696
To my eye she does not look very heavy and coldblooded. Actually in these types of horses quite a dose of TB blood can be found infused during the 19th century. But that tends to fall of the page.

This is one of her ancestors (Fürst Bismarck):
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?0=dummy&i=10290652&ad_session=JiK787
And this also:
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=591237 who carries the blood of: http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=186575 and
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=205722 and
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/coco6 and
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/jellachich and
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/graf+wedel

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

[QUOTE=SuZQuzie;6145409]

Hypothetically, a horse could really be upwards of 80% xx/xo, but only show up as a small percentage xx/xo because all the blood is past the 6th generation.

It is an imperfect system, but it is what is in place right now.

It’s kind of fun for an eventer, where xx/xo blood percentage is deemed the make-it/break-it of success. My eventing bred colt, out of a TB mare, would only be 57.81% xx/xo. Barely adequate. But, if I go back far enough, bam!, he is 78.21% and past the 75% threshold. ;)[/QUOTE]

So the OP is correct and it does in fact dillute the blood based on how close the TB is to the present generation? Any idea what the factor is?

I never realized this until the OP pointed it out. Interesting!!

[SuZQuzie]

The program used to calculate xx/xo % only takes into account the past 6 generations. Anything past that just isn’t taken into consideration by the computer. Nothing about “diluting” blood. It is simply that the algorithm needed to get a very accurate xx/xo % would be impossibly complicated and impractical. So, they take the easy way out and only consider the horses in the 6th generation.

So, let’s say we have a horse with the following breeds in the 6th generations:
8 Holsteiners
15 Thoroughbreds
1 Arabian
22 KWPN
18 Hanoverians

Only the TBs and Arabian would be considered part of the xx/xo %, for 25% xx/xo. The Holsteiners, KWPNs, and Hanoverians would all be considered non-xx/xo completely in disregard for their actual xx/xo%. Even if all the Holsteiners had TB sires, they would still fit in the non-xx/xo catergory.

(I can’t for the life of me find where on the HorseTelex website that I found that it only goes to the 6th generation, but I remember reading it recently.)

[S_A_McKee]

@SuZQuzie;6146390

The program used to calculate xx/xo % only takes into account the past 6 generations. Anything past that just isn’t taken into consideration by the computer. Nothing about “diluting” blood. It is simply that the algorithm needed to get a very accurate xx/xo % would be impossibly complicated and impractical. So, they take the easy way out and only consider the horses in the 6th generation.

Only the TBs and Arabian would be considered part of the xx/xo %, for 25% xx/xo. The Holsteiners, KWPNs, and Hanoverians would all be considered non-xx/xo completely in disregard for their actual xx/xo%. Even if all the Holsteiners had TB sires, they would still fit in the non-xx/xo catergory.

Anglo Arabs count toward the xx/xo Percent. They can be 100% xx/xo
And I think that the xx/xo percent of WB’s is used in calculating the percent of xx/xo for their offspring.

[SuZQuzie]

[QUOTE=S A McKee;6146471]
Anglo Arabs count toward the xx/xo Percent. They can be 100% xx/xo
And I think that the xx/xo percent of WB’s is used in calculating the percent of xx/xo for their offspring.[/QUOTE]

Yes, AAs, too, though I haven’t seen any to confirm that on HorseTelex.

Nope. If that was the case, Anita, the horse in the OP, would be listed as 0.88% xx/xo, not 0.2% xx/xo.

[FLIPPED_HER_HALO]

[QUOTE=TrotTrotPumpkn;6145108]
Actually, if you go do Sempatico’s sire line starting with grandparents, it does support the theory that you lose xx/xo. That’s how bored I am at work today. I think the OP is right, or I’m missing something…[/QUOTE]

You do lose xx/xo as the TB’s are a few generations back on the sire side. My whole damline is 100% TB, so that gets his xx/xo back up.

My boy:
http://www.horsetelex.com/pedigree.php?horseid=749045&maxniveau=6

[S_A_McKee]

[QUOTE=SuZQuzie;6146697]
Yes, AAs, too, though I haven’t seen any to confirm that on HorseTelex.

Nope. If that was the case, Anita, the horse in the OP, would be listed as 0.88% xx/xo, not 0.2% xx/xo.[/QUOTE]

http://www.horsetelex.com/pedigree.php?horseid=453881
Clearly shows AA with 100% xx/xo

Also clearly shows WB’s with a percent of xx/xo that is passed down to the next generation.

[Elles]

Just look at the ancestors of Anita from around 1875 and see that during that period a lot of these horses were around 25 % XX/OX but most of them higher then the 0.2 % Anita has. The Cleveland Bay horses and the Yorkshire Coach horses often also had a bit of TB blood but that is not showing. Because there was quite an influence from horses like these ones (pictures of these horse clearly show that these horses were not very heavy):
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/jellachich
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/coco6
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/zernebog

http://www.horsetelex.nl/pedigree.php?horseid=165151
http://www.horsetelex.nl/pedigree.php?horseid=113054

[ponygirl]

Anita’s pedigree is incomplete in Horsetelnex in the first 6 gens. She could have more or less blood based on this fact as could the various relatives in her pedigree.