Horsey Advice for a newbie?

[Kriswillow]

I’m not quite sure where to post this, and for the sake of all involved this will be as general as possible.

Have any of you, on this forum, had an experience with a ‘wonky’ lease? By lease I mean horse lease.

I’m ashamed to admit I didn’t do much research before I dove into my first lease and now find myself having a terrible time explaining to the “owner” why I’m bailing.

In short, the so called owner might not even own the horse in question. The horse has not been vetted in at least a year, or seen a farrier regularly, and I’m starting to believe I’m paying for someone else to lease the horse (as I haven’t ridden since it started.)

There was no legal and binding contract signed therefore I’m stuck in do I tell them I’m not coming back and just don’t answer them or…? Are there other ways to go about this?

–As so everyone knows, moving forward from this I know the questions to ask when I attempt to enter another lease, so please be aware I have learned an invaluable lesson here. <3

[Plainandtall]

Are you saying the horse is sublet?

[BeaSting]

If there’s no lease contract, then it’s easy. Just tell the “owner” that while the horse is wonderful/awesome, etc, you’re having some issues that force you to give up the lease. Then leave it at that and move on.

[Kriswillow]

Almost, but it seems not even sublet is quite the word for it as I haven’t been able to ride the horse for various reasons.

[pAin_t_Misbehavin]

@Kriswillow;7192037

I’m starting to believe I’m paying for someone else to lease the horse (as I haven’t ridden since it started.)

There was no legal and binding contract signed therefore I’m stuck in do I tell them I’m not coming back and just don’t answer them or…? Are there other ways to go about this?

Sure, there are. If you want to just cut your losses, then you don’t pay anymore and you move on sadder but wiser. If you want the crook to sweat a little bit, then you demand your money back with interest and threaten to go to the magistrate if you don’t get it within ten days. I guess those are the two extremes. What in the world happened that you are paying money and not getting to ride?

[Bluey]

Did you sign some kind of lease contract?
If so, you are bound by the terms of the contract, see what they stipulate.

If not, then you can just tell them sorry, the lease doesn’t seem to be working for you and leave it at that.

[Kriswillow]

[QUOTE=pAin’t_Misbehavin’;7192097]
What in the world happened that you are paying money and not getting to ride?[/QUOTE]

The horse in question turned lame as soon as the cold hit. I know she’s had a previous injury to her leg, and it seems as if the people who have leased her to me have not gotten her to see the vet. My biggest concern is that the horse is not getting proper medical attention she needs and deserves.

[RubyTuesday]

[QUOTE=Bluey;7192104]
Did you sign some kind of lease contract?
If so, you are bound by the terms of the contract, see what they stipulate.

If not, then you can just tell them sorry, the lease doesn’t seem to be working for you and leave it at that.[/QUOTE]

Bluey, do you ever read OPs’ posts before a knee-jerk reply? She says there is no contract…

OP, this situation sounds “wonky”, as you put it. pAin’t_MisBehavin’ has good advice on this one, I’d choose one of those two options. If the horse isn’t getting the medical care it deserves in such a situation, there will be little you can do about it, it isn’t your horse…just read some of the other posts around here about people trying to help horses in REAL abuse/neglect/hoarder situations and you’ll see that other than bringing it to a barn owner’s attention if they are not the person leasing the horse, there is not much you can do if the horse is fed, housed and not in a truly woeful state.

[ReSomething]

Well, I’m confused, but I remember the various flavors of verbal horse riding agreements that flourished among my group of teenage riders, long years ago, so I’m going to treat this as if it were one of those.

You never signed anything so you can politely let them know that you are going to end your verbal agreement and seek a rideable horse.

Unfortunately with that kind of agreement, if you wanted the vet out you had to call the vet and pay extra yourself, and sometimes the owner/custodian/person who was taking your money wouldn’t cooperate regarding the need for a vet visit, they’d argue and tell you the horse was just fine or they’d be forever unavailable for any time you proposed, etc…

If you wanted to make a difference for the horse, I’m sorry. Sometimes you just can’t as a non-owner. You can throw all the money you want at some people but you cannot make them use it in the way that you think it should be used, and they aren’t going to take better care of their horses, they’re just going to spend the money on something else. Maybe a sound, fancy horse, who knows, where your money is going to go to paying for the lame one so they don’t have to, and they can just leave the animal out in the pasture because it’s only sort of their problem now.

All kinds of thought processes out there, having someone else pay while they have control over the destiny of the horse is a real win for some folks.

As I recall it, since we were kids we were always subject to the whims of the adults in our lives and so we had easy excuses for ending a riding agreement. School, parents, what have you. As an adult, I’m of the belief that you make a statement and don’t get defensive or elaborate on it.

“I’m sorry, I need to end this agreement on the 15th. For personal reasons.”
And then, and this is the hard part, you never discuss why you ended the lease with anyone. Now if the owner calls you, you might say that you agreed to pay for a sound horse, Dobbin is not sound, but then you might end up in a circular argument about “what is sound”, which circular argument has nowhere to go but bad, so “personal reasons” and then change the subject - to something like somebody is at the door or the oven timer is going off.

Then you have to put out feelers for another horse without insulting the first guy - which is why most adults use their trainer/instructor/Barn O/M to act as a go between, and get a real contract.

[sketcher]

[QUOTE=RubyTuesday;7192698]
Bluey, do you ever read OPs’ posts before a knee-jerk reply? She says there is no contract…[/QUOTE]

Do you ever resist the urge to berate someone?

[Kriswillow]

First, I am 22 years of age therefore able to sign and be responsible for legal agreements.

Second, it is not my job to do the lessors job which is what was happening in my case. The lessor even tried to go as far as saying I made the horse lame while the daughter was able to ride. This is fraud obvious fraud.

The question is do I report them and any subsequent ads?

Oh and the so called owner has no paperwork. No vet work no farrier no record of the horse although she promised to show me papers.

Once again I tried to make this post general so that there were no issues. And yes I can read other posters advice and need not be reminded of it thank you. If what you desire to post does not influence the conversation please don’t post because i wind up wasting my time when others have given clear and concise advice.

[Posting_Trot]

It doesn’t seem like there is much you can do except terminate the lease. If there’s no written contract, you should be able to walk away.

If you feel bad about walking away because you think the horse is going to suffer, that’s a different issue. You can’t make someone else call the vet, unless the neglect has reached pretty epic proportions. You could try writing the person who leased you the horse a letter and suggesting in strong terms that you think the horse needs the vet. This may not achieve anything but at least you’ll get your thoughts across to him/her.

Or, if the horse is being boarded at a third person’s place, you could talk to the third person about the horse and suggest that the horse really needs to see the vet.

Why do you think the “owner” is not really the horse’s owner? If you know who the real owner is, you could drop that person a note suggesting that all is not well in horsey-land. Don’t expect any gratitude for this, however (no good deed goes unpunished).

Good luck.

[RubyTuesday]

[QUOTE=sketcher;7192764]
Do you ever resist the urge to berate someone?[/QUOTE]

Too many times. I ought to step up my game. Especially when people don’t read before replying, which is just plain tedious and helps no one.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=RubyTuesday;7192698]
Bluey, do you ever read OPs’ posts before a knee-jerk reply? She says there is no contract…

OP, this situation sounds “wonky”, as you put it. pAin’t_MisBehavin’ has good advice on this one, I’d choose one of those two options. If the horse isn’t getting the medical care it deserves in such a situation, there will be little you can do about it, it isn’t your horse…just read some of the other posts around here about people trying to help horses in REAL abuse/neglect/hoarder situations and you’ll see that other than bringing it to a barn owner’s attention if they are not the person leasing the horse, there is not much you can do if the horse is fed, housed and not in a truly woeful state.[/QUOTE]

Did YOU read the OP?

—“There was no legal and binding contract signed therefore I’m stuck in do I tell them I’m not coming back and just don’t answer them or…? Are there other ways to go about this?”—

Thus my question, because to me, she could have signed some other kind of homemade lease, not a legally binding one.

Just covering all the basis.

[Cindyg]

Well, I think this is over. If you didn’t sign anything, you give a brief notice, and you’re done. What am I missing?

In your second post, it sounded like you wanted to out the owner somehow (warn others, get the horse vet care). I can’t say you’re wrong to do that, but it’s not where I’d spend my time. I’d move on.

[ReSomething]

[QUOTE=Kriswillow;7193322]
First, I am 22 years of age therefore able to sign and be responsible for legal agreements. That’s great.

Second, it is not my job to do the lessors job which is what was happening in my case. The lessor even tried to go as far as saying I made the horse lame while the daughter was able to ride. This is fraud obvious fraud.

I agree up to a point. Most leases specify who takes care of what. I free lease the old guy and I’m responsible for EVERYTHING. I don’t pay the farm owner anything, just all the upkeep on the horse. I also get exclusive use and I took him home just to make sure.

The question is do I report them and any subsequent ads? If it’s on CL flag it but remember the horse world is small.
Oh and the so called owner has no paperwork. No vet work no farrier no record of the horse although she promised to show me papers. I have a record of all work done while in my care. It’s only smart. But he’s still registered to the person two homes back.
Once again I tried to make this post general so that there were no issues. And yes I can read other posters advice and need not be reminded of it thank you. If what you desire to post does not influence the conversation please don’t post because i wind up wasting my time when others have given clear and concise advice.[/QUOTE]

OP, if MY post offended you, please don’t take it that way. Horsetraders were around long before used car salesmen, and just as reliable. You’ve probably run into one of the more unscrupulous type.

I hope you get out of this lease and find one that lets you enjoy riding and interacting with the horse and is less vague and subject to abuse.

[sketcher]

[QUOTE=Kriswillow;7193322]
The question is do I report them and any subsequent ads?[/QUOTE]

Who would you propose reporting them to? No one is going to care one iota so take it as a lesson learned, stop paying anything and just walk away. It is not worth one more moment of worrying about it.

You do not own the horse and have no say in when it sees the vet or farrier so unless you can buy it, there is nothing you can do about it. There are a million horses in “the sea”…go find another one more suited to your needs.

And if you are going to lease, you have to learn not to care about them enough to get all twisted up if the owner does not do what you think it right. If you are unable to keep that distance then you need to buy your own horse.

And in the case of buying, I’d normally say shop with a trainer but my trust in trainers has been severely wounded as of lately and they are often just as willing to act against your best interests…

[HungarianHippo]

Set aside your suspicion that they’re not the owner-- that seems to have very little to bear on the situation that directly affects you. Even if the horse was already a lease, for all you know their contract could include (or, NOT exclude, anyway) the right to sub-lease the horse to someone like you. Regardless, it does seems like it would affect your situation, or the horse’s lameness.
The lameness sounds serious enough that it may be worth to have a vet’s opinion on the record, showing that the lameness is not caused by recent use but by degenerative bone condition, or whatever). You would pay for that.

Also set aside what you consider to be a “legally binding agreement” or not, and just answer: was anything put in writing between the two of you about the terms / nature of your agreement? Especially when it comes to terminating it.
If no, you give them a short notice in writing (30d would be fair and show good-will) and you walk away. Done. If yes, then you follow what the contract said for the horse while it’s in their possession.

Outing them is an unproductive impulse that should be defeated. Just chalk up your losses to your own judgment and errors, and resolve tot to make those errors next time. If you do out them, be very very careful that every single word you utter is factually true, so you don’t expose yourself to libel laws.