I have a 6 year old ottb mare who is underweight and extremely hot. I have had her on 3lbs of safe choice senior and 1.5lbs of envision in the mornings and 3lbs of safe choice senior in the evenings and free choice alfalfa during the day with free choice orchard hay and grass in at night. She gets ridden everyday twice a day, a lighter workout in the morning and a hard workout in the afternoon. I am looking to change her grain because she is off the walls with energy. I can’t have productive rides with her because she is soooo strong and full of energy that unless we are cantering circles, she is prancing side ways, rearing, and doing anything she can to move. She is still a bit underweight so I need something that will keep her gaining weight but not give her the ridiculous amount of energy she currently has. She is suppose to be shown to a potential buyer in march and I am currently desperate to do anything I can to calm her down. I am willing to spend $$$$$ on types of feed for her if necessary. Any advice would be great!!!
[QUOTE=Maggielynn213;8520649]
I have a 6 year old ottb mare who is underweight and extremely hot. I have had her on 3lbs of safe choice senior and 1.5lbs of envision in the mornings and 3lbs of safe choice senior in the evenings and free choice alfalfa during the day with free choice orchard hay and grass in at night. She gets ridden everyday twice a day, a lighter workout in the morning and a hard workout in the afternoon. I am looking to change her grain because she is off the walls with energy. I can’t have productive rides with her because she is soooo strong and full of energy that unless we are cantering circles, she is prancing side ways, rearing, and doing anything she can to move. She is still a bit underweight so I need something that will keep her gaining weight but not give her the ridiculous amount of energy she currently has. She is suppose to be shown to a potential buyer in march and I am currently desperate to do anything I can to calm her down. I am willing to spend $$$$$ on types of feed for her if necessary. Any advice would be great!!![/QUOTE]
Why not back off the schooling, give her some down time to allow her to gain weight on a more high forage diet.
Sounds like A LOT of work, and hence A LOT of high energy feed,
on an already stressed animal, that really needs a mental, as well, nutritional change/break.
JMO, but I think you are expecting too much from her in her current state,
and feeding her to make her more hot.
I haven’t seen the NSC of the SafeChoice Senior, but I’m betting it’s too much for her. Do you have access to something lower in starch/sugar like Triple Crown Senior or maybe Sentinel Performance LS etc. There are others out there lower than the safechoice, just naming a couple. SafeChoice sent my boy through the roof.
[QUOTE=BoyleHeightsKid;8520682]
I haven’t seen the NSC of the SafeChoice Senior, but I’m betting it’s too much for her. Do you have access to something lower in starch/sugar like Triple Crown Senior or maybe Sentinel Performance LS etc. There are others out there lower than the safechoice, just naming a couple. SafeChoice sent my boy through the roof.[/QUOTE]
If tractor supply has it, I can get it. Unfortunately we don’t have many options of places to buy feed where I am. The safe choice senior has a max of 20% for NSC (max 14 for starch and 6 for sugar).
Those feeds are 14% and 15% protein. Alfalfa is high protein. I would cut back on the protein and up the forage (orchardgrass, pasture). Also, less riding. She is probably too fit for gaining weight. Her current diet and workout schedule is not that different from race training. More fiber and time to chill will help you a lot.
She is just coming off of 3 months of turnout. Unfortunately I can’t back off on schooling. She gets a max of 20 minutes per schooling because she is going out twice a day. She behaves much better with it like that, trying to bring her down to once day turns extremely dangerous.
I have been thinking about lowering her alfalfa intake to a bit at lunch time. She is prone to ulcers so I don’t want to take her off of it.
Just to clarify, she needs to gain about 100 lbs at most
Agree w/ replacing SafeChoice with TC Sr. I’d also knock off the free choice alfalfa and switch to a grass mix hay during the day and maybe during the night also. Some orchard grass hay can be VERY high in sugar/starch so that may be part of the problem also. Can you get some good Timothy hay?
I agree on backing off all the hard riding until she’s in better weight. Slow and easy- no pressure. It does seem like she needs a mental break also.
Cut the alfalfa completely or down to just a flake or two. Provide free choice orchard 24/7.
Does your TSC have Purina Ultium? That’s higher fat than SafeChoice Senior (12% vs. 8%) and lower NSC (16% vs. 20%).
20 minutes twice a day seems pretty pointless - for mine that would be basically warming them up and then putting them away. I wouldn’t fret about the weight gain as long as she has energy to burn. If she’s coming back into work from a long period of turnout she should put on muscle anyway.
Have teeth, saddle fit, etc. been checked to make sure it’s really just a hyper problem rather than pain stressing her out?
[QUOTE=Scaramouch;8520718]
Cut the alfalfa completely or down to just a flake or two. Provide free choice orchard 24/7.
Does your TSC have Purina Ultium? That’s higher fat than SafeChoice Senior (12% vs. 8%) and lower NSC (16% vs. 20%).
20 minutes twice a day seems pretty pointless - for mine that would be basically warming them up and then putting them away. I wouldn’t fret about the weight gain as long as she has energy to burn. If she’s coming back into work from a long period of turnout she should put on muscle anyway.
Have teeth, saddle fit, etc. been checked to make sure it’s really just a hyper problem rather than pain stressing her out?[/QUOTE]
Yes I can get purina ultium at my tsc. I can try that.
I had her teeth floated in January along with a full vet check to make sure everything is fine. And she it’s been deemed very healthy. She just has to much energy.
I went through this when I first got my boy! Frustrating, but hang in there…it’ll get better with work and patience.
Here’s what worked for my then-insanely hot, spooky TB (now the most mellow, focused horse around…still very spirited, but in a good way 
Food:
Our old barn fed cheap grain, and lots of it. He’s huge (17.3 hh) AND a hard keeper (he had a body score of 1.5 when I first got him), so he got a five gallon bucket full o’food twice a day (!!!). It was a mix of soaked beet pulp, hay cubes, sweet feed and 12%. He looked great at the end, but he was also high as a kite!
New barn feeds a better quality feed, so he “only” gets 3 qts of Poulin Endurance and 2 qts of soaked beet pulp twice a day (12-15 flakes of hay daily, depending on the weight of the flakes and the temps outside). He lost a bit of weight when moved to the new barn, but he’s gaining it back and our vet is very happy with how he looks (he’s somewhere between a 5-5.5).
One thing we’ve discovered is that he turns into a major a-hole with sugar and high protein. We now feed him the no molasses beet pulp and avoid alfalfa or concentrated grain with high protein.
Work:
If she’s spooky under saddle and she’s really underweight, she may be telling you she’s not ready to be ridden just yet, or worked super hard. Work with your vet to make sure she’s physically ready and isn’t in discomfort somewhere (my horse was back sore until we built up his top line). Since my boy was so skinny, we had to build up a lot of muscle before we threw a saddle on him. His vet recommended a Pessoa lunging rig, but long lining will also work. Once you’re in the saddle, you need lots and lots of walking in the beginning, and work your way up to trotting. Hills and ground poles were also useful. Once we got him more conditioned, he was a less crazy under saddle, even when he was eating so much!
Once my boy got the go ahead from the vet for more intense work, I tried to ride 3-4 days a week, and had a friend hack him during the week as well. We just began dressage work a year ago (he’s a former hunter), and I really think the mental/physical challenge of something different helped him as well. Even now I try to vary our routine - some days we flat, others we jump…once the weather gets better, I want to hit the trails as well.
Turnout:
My guy would live outside 24/7 if it was up to him…and for 9-10 months out of the year, he does (he does come in at night when we get a blizzard or other horrible weather). It’s good for his joints, and very good for his mental health. He will weave when he’s inside for more than a day, but this too has diminished over time.
Other:
As your girl gains weight, keep checking for saddle fit…something that fit her perfectly one month may be pinching the next. My boy will throw a few good bucks at me to let me know it’s time to call the saddle fitter out and have the flocking adjusted!
Check for ulcers - sometimes bad behavior on the ground is just masking an upset tummy.
IMHO, TBs are SMART - sometimes too smart! I clicker trained my gelding last winter when we had one blizzard after another and he wasn’t getting any turnout for days at a time. Teaching him “stupid pet tricks” gave him something to do, and kept him from trying to kill the barn staff. And let’s face it…an OTTB who can fetch gloves and whips is pretty darned cute :lol:
TSC also carries the Sentinel Performance LS, I would try that before the Ultium. The Sentinel is also about $4-$5/bag cheaper than the Ultium. I would also make sure she is getting plenty of turnout… 24/7 is preferable. If she can’t have that then she needs to be out more than she is in. Preferrably with others in a large enough area so that she can run and stretch her legs if she needs to. Is she on turnout? If not there’s a BIG part of the problem.
Some horses get high on alfalfa. See if you can switch out the alfalfa for a grassier hay.
If this horse is really that hot, I would eliminate as much grain as possible. I would feed beet pulp, oil, a vitamin or low NSC ration balancer, and maybe some rice bran.
Senior feeds are for old horses. So nearer 20 years old not near 10 years old.
I would cut all grain and switch to grassy hay. Or a grassy/lucerne (alfalfa) mix. Shedded lucerne is better than green lucerne.
They can live on grassy hay. They will die if only fed on lucerne hay with no grass to eat.
The go to to fatten a horse without it going to their head in the old days is to boil barley. You can also boil rice.
Remember to add new feeds slowly.
…and there is another saying. ‘It is nice to have a fat tb in the paddock, but it is your own fault if you can’t ride it.’
A couple of possibilities:
You don’t indicate how much turnout she’s getting or what it’s like. It may be that she’d do better with more turnout. Also, if she is not going out with other horses she might benefit from having pasture mates; alternatively if she is going out with other horses, maybe a change in the pasturemates might help.
Ulcers might be a possibility. A horse with ulcers can be very uncomfortable and that discomfort can translate into crazy behavior. You could ask your vet about ulcers and maybe trying some ulcergard to see if it helps.
It could also be that she’s feeling overfaced by the riding. So you might go back to square one and treat her like a baby that doesn’t know much. Spend a couple of weeks doing ground work in hand; then spend some time doing short sessions (no more than one short session a couple of times a week) of lunging to work on voice commands, with in-hand work continuing on other days. Then (after 4 weeks or so) start riding her again, but try to keep it slow and calm.
Anyway, good luck.
Another vote for switching to TC Senior. Keep the Envision. Try cutting back some on alfalfa next, as it is calorie dense, but I would first cut down on the sugars. For calcium, add soaked (and rinsed) beet pulp with the senior.
[QUOTE=SuzieQNutter;8520828]
Senior feeds are for old horses. So nearer 20 years old not near 10 years old.
I would cut all grain and switch to grassy hay. Or a grassy/lucerne (alfalfa) mix. Shedded lucerne is better than green lucerne.
They can live on grassy hay. They will die if only fed on lucerne hay with no grass to eat.
The go to to fatten a horse without it going to their head in the old days is to boil barley. You can also boil rice.
Remember to add new feeds slowly.
…and there is another saying. ‘It is nice to have a fat tb in the paddock, but it is your own fault if you can’t ride it.’[/QUOTE]
I totally disagree that senior feeds are strictly for older horses.
Senior feeds are formulated to meet the needs of ‘mature’ horses,
meaning, and according to many vets, anything over the age of 10-15 years old.
BUT senior feeds are also used to feed rescues, etc, that need a high fat diet without all the excess protein and sugars found in other feeds.
Fats are more highly digestible without causing them to become
too hot, or overloaded from a digestive standpoint.
I would consider feeding a good senior feed to just about any horse except a growing
young horse, or a broodmare.
And depending on their^ situation, I might feed it to them.
[QUOTE=SuzieQNutter;8520828]
Senior feeds are for old horses. So nearer 20 years old not near 10 years old.[/QUOTE]Some senior feeds might be for old horses but Triple Crown Senior is great for any age, and is a very nice feed for horses that need Low Starch/Low Sugar, high fat to gain and stay sane.
Then just lessen the amount being used. I would still remove all grain to start with and start from there.
