House training a kennel raised dog?

[Where_sMyWhite]

I have had my “new” Border Terrier for about a week. He’s neutered (about 4 weeks ago) and almost 2 years old.

He was not house trained when I got him (which I knew). It appears that he’s lived in a kennel type environment most/all of his life.

What I am struggling with is house training him. I’ve always used a crate as part of the strategy with the idea that dogs won’t mess in their crate/home. He’d got a 200 size crate (which fits nicely as he’s about 15 lbs and has room to stand and up and turn around).

He will mess in his crate

Pee and poop. We go out before bedtime. This morning I got up at 4 to let him out. I am not sure if he’d pee’d in it by the. At 7 when I got up, he’d pooped in it Let him out while I cleaned and fed him breakfast. I should have let him out again as he pooped again in the house.

He can go outside by himself if he wishes (when he’s not crated). I have a rancher with walkout basement and dog door from the basement to outside. He can go up and down both inside and outside stairs (there is a slider to a deck which then has stairs).

I’m currently limited to the main floor of the rancher (can’t to stairs yet).

How long should he be able to hold himself? Why is he messing in the crate? Lack of control? Being raised in a kennel has taught him it is no biggie to mess in his “house”?

Thoughts, suggestions? He is clever and smart but the ‘potty outside’ lightbulb doesn’t show any signs of turning on yet

[Bluey]

I got an italian greyhound, notable for being very hard to housebreak, at a year old, from the breeder, that said she was not housebroken, always been a kennel dog.

So, right off I knew crating for longer than a few minutes was not to be quite yet.
I arranged an X-pen with a plastic tarp for a bottom, papers most all over it, a 200 crate with bedding in a corner and water and food by it.
I took the already leash trained dog to potty many times a day and when she urinated, I dipped a piece of newspaper in it and took it to one corner of the X-pen.
This way, the dog had a place to go other than the crate, already with the right smell, which she may or not have used.

With taking her out many times the first few days, she only had to use the papers one time.
Once she was confirmed to go outside, about a week, I started letting her have some time in the room, outside of the x-pen.

We also had a dog door and other dogs and would you know, she never ever had an accident, other than that first day that once, on the right papers in her pen.

If your dog goes in his crate, don’t use the crate to confine him, maybe other than in the night, if you feel confident he won’t go then, being older, he should be able to hold it all night.

[wendy]

give up on the crate- the only reason crating works to assist in housebreaking is dogs are born with an instinct to “not mess” where they live; if someone manages to break that instinct, common in dogs forced to live in confinement- pet store dogs, puppy mill dogs, dogs that are abusively crated, the crate won’t help you at all. Plus every time the dog messes in the crate he’s practicing bad things. What dogs practice is what they get good at.
I’d suggest the tethering method- tether him to you in the house so he can’t sneak off and potty. When you have to leave, confine him in an x-pen or room with a potty pad at one end, so hopefully he will make an effort to re-learn how to be “clean”.

Very important: don’t just “let him out”. You need to go out with him, make sure he is pottying in the correct place(s), and reward him for doing so. Try taking him out very frequently around the clock at first- set an alarm. Try walking him, and praising to the skies for pottying outside. Don’t rely on your dog door at all right now- for now, every time he potties, you want to be there with him to inform him he’s right.
And don’t follow any of the guidelines about how long he SHOULD be able to hold it- if he’s been kept in a kennel, he’s probably just gone whenever, and never learned any control. It takes time to develop those muscles.