Hello everyone, I’ve lurked on here or years and finally have a question I can’t find an answer to. So here’s the story, I was given a beautiful tall quarter horse most people in the barn mistake him for a thoroughbred he’s gorgeous. Unfortunately for me though he was trained as a WP horse like full on peanut rolling spur stopping oh my goodness how can you possibly cantor slower then you walk kinda training. I’ve always had Arabs and ottb’s so I’ve never had to deal with one that has no go. Poor guy whenever I ask him for more speed or to lengthen his stride he just goes slower, any leg pressure I put on him means stop afar as he’s concerned. He’s completely capable of moving out, I’ve seem him move like a normal horse in the field I just can’t get him to not be a shuffling zombie when I ride with! Any suggestions and ideas to help me teach him to move forward and normal would be so helpful. Thank you guys in advance
As someone who has done both disciplines (although a long while ago) - I think I can maybe help you with your question. Your WP horse, if he has been as well-trained as you think, has those extended gaits. The first thing I would try is moving him off the rail. Our WP horses were trained that when on the rail, they were to move slowly in response to rider cues --right down to when to move each leg so the walk would be as slow as you wanted it. But, when the same horse was shown English, the rider kept him off the rail (10 or more feet) and the gaits were trained to be freer, and more extended, the head held higher.
As with all training and retraining, repetition and patience are key. Your horse spent years learning one way, it’s going to take awhile to teach him a different way –
I’d start on the ground with lunging. You should add verbal cues to achieve the pace you want. Then when in the saddle, use those verbal cues to acquire the gait and pace you want. Once you are solid on the ground, you should be come more solid in the saddle.
As to the low head carriage --using a snaffle, gently bump him up. When the head is where you want it, stop bumping. He’ll catch on quickly that you want a higher head carriage.
Finally, I think each discipline has its own exaggerations --a spur stop isn’t awful. It’s just something taught for that discipline. Horses that do it, aren’t awful, they are just trained differently. I completely understand the “shuffling zombie” reference --also called the QH death march. But your horse is not a zombie --he’s just been trained to a different standard. Keep in mind that the “fire breathing event horse” isn’t everyone’s ideal horse --someone spent a great deal of time training your horse in a specific discipline. Be patient and he’ll learn another one —we’ve had riding horses become driving horses, driving horses become jumping horses, WP horses become reining horses and a reining horse become a dandy fox hunter. Currently I’m working with a cutting/sorting horse to retrain him as a fox hunter. He’ll be good one he stops trying to sort the hounds.
Teach him “good boy!” And make sure he knows you mean it. Ride bareback in a halter and lead rope. Steering can come later, right now you just want to associate a human on your back with “it’s okay”. Reward ANY spark or interest in forward with pats and “good boy!” and generally making much of him.
don’t be surprised if it takes years.
What trails are available to you? Does he ride out? Start taking him on hacks outside the ring as long as it’s safe to do so, either alone or with a buddy. Marching down the trail can do wonders for forward movement. 
Are you or someone you trust capable of long-lining? I agree that teaching him to go forward will probably take some time. I’m not in the situation and it would depend on the horse, but I would start by long-lining him in a halter if it is safe to do so. Just get him out and ahead of you, moving off voice cues and very gentle encouragement from either the lines or a whip. Don’t beat him forward, but a small flick if he lags behind to remind him that “clucking = go”. Lots and lots of praise.
Once you have him marching forward outside and on the lines then switch to regular lunging keeping the same idea of encouraging but not beating/scaring him forward. Lots of voice cues, lots and lots of praise. Once he’s moving out on the lunge ask someone to lunge him with you on his back. The person doing the lunging should also be controlling speed; you’re just a passenger. This may be confusing for him so be patient and fair. When he does trot use your seat to push him forward. Personally I would probably not use legs for the first few rides (granted that things are going well). As he gets more comfortable being lunged while you ride, slowly start incorporating normal cues…as in, leg pressure, but always in conjunction with a cluck or light tap of the crop followed by lots and lots of praise if he moves forward. Once he’s more consistent then take away the lunging aspect. I wouldn’t be surprised if he regresses slightly without someone attached to a lunge line, but just be patient. Don’t futz with his face yet…the head will come up as he gets more forward and right now you want him to not be punished (I board in a western barn…most times reins are more “punishment” than anything) for going forward. Ride in a big fat snaffle, a halter, hell…whatever you and he are comfortable in while you figure this out.
Best of luck. I know a lot of really good Western horses that I think “man, they would be even nicer if they were allowed to move!”. He definitely has an expensive education and it will take time for him to relearn. I started my half-Arab very backwards as I didn’t know any better, but once I started riding properly and retraining him he picked up on it pretty quickly. You’ll have a very well-rounded horse after this!!
Also, bumping him with your legs rather than a straight squeeze may get him to move out more.
Since no one has addressed this yet… I would do a full soundness workup if you haven’t already. I’ve seen a ton of WP horses at open shows who would have been rung out of a dressage ring for unsoundess. He won’t want to go forward if he’s not comfortable.
So, I did this, and rather successfully with my old AQHA gelding. Showed HUS and WP for 14 years (age 2 to 16) and added the all around for good measure. I showed him at QH shows for 4 years before we switched to eventing. So I had to learn too. What you should understand is that your horse has more flat work education that most hunters/jumpers/eventers, but it all includes being asked to move and carry himself a different way than we want. He was asked to hold his head in one spot regardless of rein contact ( and likely punished if he deviated from that spot) and everything- turning, forward, stopping, collecting (in QH terms) and extending came from the legs. So you have a lot of very specific and very ingrained training to retrain. But a positive, when you get past all the baby stuff and get him moving more “correctly” flat work will likely be very fun, when/if you get to the more advanced movements. They are taught to be obedient no matter what, and he thinks he is obeying your leg and hand at the moment.
First you have to reeducate him to the leg. A spur stop isn’t exactly how it sounds, there are nuances that a rider who has not been trained to do it would not understand (and if you want me to try to explain it, you can pm me). But in the end, it doesn’t matter, he needs to learn a new way now. I would ride constantly with a dressage whip and avoid any spurs for the moment. Leg means forward, no exceptions. If he doesn’t immediately go forward with the amount of leg pressure you want to use ( and he likely won’t) tap him with the whip hard enough to get a serious response. He likely hasn’t ever had a whip used on him (QH people don’t want them going fast/lunging forward ever, the typically use bumping of the legs) so you may have to play around with how hard you use it. Every time you put leg on and he slows down, every time he stops unnecessarily, every time he doesn’t immediately move forward when you put leg on, he gets tapped with the whip.
This was the part that took me the longest to ingrain in my gelding, and I typically had to start every ride with a squeeze to trot- ignore- whip- trot sequence for the first few transitions. Do not get caught in the trap I got in for a while of nagging with your legs (even at the walk) because it is very easy to do, and conflicts what you are teaching him. Back up every unanswered leg aid with a tap, even within the walk. I also found getting out for gallops in the field- and really push him to gallop, he probably never has under saddle- again leg to forward then tap with whip- and trail rides/long forward canters and gallops on trail with a forward walking buddy helps- he will likely be nervous (QH people typically don’t trail ride) and make sure to keep up. I didn’t even worry about the head and typically just kept a loose rein while I was reteaching the leg.
The contact is another piece of the puzzle that your horse has likely been very well trained in, just in the wrong way for what you want to do now. With my gelding, at some point during the forward lessons he realized I didn’t correct him every time his head came up anymore (and it was coming up quite often when he would get surprised by the whip). He started carrying it at a more normal carriage for his body, but it is still lower than what most consider normal because of how they are built. Depending on his build, you may never get a frame that looks like a typical uphill frame because of how he is built. When you slowly add contact, he will try to dive back into it ( because that’s what he thinks he is supposed to do). Make sure to keep your leg on and push him forward, and I had to “bump” him up with the reins many times until he understood. I did not find downward transitions to be helpful when he dived, but sometimes upwards were. I did have to make sure he was working well off the hind and forward, because he did have a tendency to get behind the bit- which makes sense from how he was previously trained to react to contact. I found that with every new piece of the training puzzle and every new maneuver I taught him I had to go back and repeat the process, but once I got him working well from the hind end and really using his back, things got much easier. Also make sure your hands are very quiet, because he will likely take any fussiness with your hands as a sign to drop his head and flatten his neck, which is the opposite of what you want.
I would recommend starting over with a very good and understanding dressage trainer, and tell them to treat him like a young horse with no education. What I found with my horse, is that the easy stuff (forward, moving off the leg, accepting real contact, straightness) was impossible to do well, but advanced movements (lateral work, lead changes, counter canter) were very easy for him to do (albeit not correctly in the beginning). I would be willing to bet your horses transitions and lateral response, and bit response are all really good, and once you get the way of going and retraining out of the way, dressage will be really fun and one of your strongest phases. I know when I competed my guy we always got positive remarks about obedience and transitions. I found he really lighted up and learned to love work when I showed him it was ok to move like a horse
Sorry for the rambling and the long post. If you have any questions or want someone to bounce ideas off of you can always PM me.
I have a QH that is also mistaken for a TB quite a bit that came from a pleasure/all around background, albeit, not quite as winningly. I have never had a problem getting speed from him, but I still have a problem with him getting heavy on the forehand and diving into contact. He also had almost no lateral work skills.
I don’t think it is a matter of speed, but rather, extension. Moving out. If it is a speed matter, he SHOULD be trained to go faster too - actually contacting a good WP trainer may help you find his buttons either way.
A good exercise my trainer taught me is the alarm clock exercise. Basically, you ask for the horse to move with the lightness you would like to have in your aids. When horsie doesn’t respond, you jack your cues up to a 8-9. That means kick, use a crop, wake him up! When he moves off, don’t slow him down. Instead, praise him then bring him back. This may or may not be helpful to you.
Also, quickening your posting to perk him up at the trot might help.
Lateral work should be taught from the ground first. Give him the teaching of moving away from pressure. Begin flexing and bending him. Then, you can start asking him under saddle. My horse just needed a lot of repetition and praise. One step in the right direction, praise and release. Show him that a halt is not what you want.
If he is leaning on your hands and getting heavy on the forehand, more bending and flexing. Half halts. Engaging core so he can’t drag you down. When he gets heavy, you can also stop and back him up until he lightens.
Those are my ideas.
I’ll second the idea to get a lesson with a good QH trainer if there is one in your area. Learning where the buttons are and what they do will help you immensely. A proper spur stop is pretty specific, and shouldn’t be all leg = slow down. A good trainer should be able to translate between the two of you.
QH people do “long-trot” for fitness. Somewhere in there is a cue for a more open stride at the trot. (Possibly not so much for the lope, though.) In general, sitting deeper = slow/stop, and lightening the seat = forward. They are accustomed to being ridden with the leg OFF unless being cued.
A well-trained WP-type should have quite a lot of lateral work already installed. I would not be surprised if he already has some semblance of shoulder in, haunches in, leg yield, turn on forehand, turn on haunches, counter-canter, and very obedient simple changes. If he did any horsemanship or eq, he probably also has a flying change, which if clean, will be so obedient that you’ll have tempis.
Leave the headset alone until you have sorted out forward and sideways. They’re generally ridden in bits that, when activated, get a marked reaction. It could take some time to sort out that contact will not be uncomfortable. Above all, remember that the two of you speak different languages. You’ll both learn. Be kind to yourself in the process.
This. If he has a real spur stop, then “grab with both heels” = slow down/lift your back. If you alternate legs and/or bump instead of grab, he should move out. Also, try a quiet “shh, shh, shh” - many pleasure horses will lengthen stride with that cue.
How about you ride along with another, more forward horse? You can even have the other person pony you so they can use a lead rope to bring your horse along with theirs while you apply your aids. That might be interesting as well as fairly simple if you have another horse and rider who can help.
Also, try using your pelvis. shove under hard and long to lengthen, lightly, to slow down, and shades in between.
It is harder to retrain than it is to train.
I would start on the lunge. Get him moving out on that. Put a rider on and the lunger gets him to move on out. Slowly the rider asks and voila
I also liked the idea of taking him out for a trail ride with a faster moving horse.
It will take a billion Good Boys.
You have been given great advice up thread, but I’d like to share my experience with a HUS and WP trained horse.
I was pretty familiar with him and his cues as I had shown him in both disciplines before I transitioned him to dressage and jumping (my background).
I had no issues per say with getting him to go forward, I think my forward cues were bumps not squeezes. Once he was locked on a gait he’d maintain it and was quick to pick up what I wanted. Our biggest struggles were getting him to “sit” more in his movements.
He turned out to be a very honest jumper. Would jump anything even though he should have refused. He was not great with distances and his technique was very poor. Getting him to go MORE forward to his fences was terrifying as yes he would do it, but his chosen place to leave the ground got very questionable.
And that two leg spur stop saved my butt at least twice. I did ride him in spurs, but by that point my forward cue was solid and different than my stop cue.
Well one day in a lesson he got a pole between his legs and in my effort to stay in the middle yet allow him use of his head and neck I not only slipped the reins but dropped them. He managed to get his legs underneath him, probably by will power alone, and began to canter away. I was able to stop him with my spur, collect my reins and continue on.
Once i realized I really never wanted to go xc on him, I sold him to a wonderful adult rider just learning dressage and jumping (cross rails). He took great care of her until he passed.
Truly a heart of gold and would try anything. I hope that once your guy figures you out he’s got the same willing attitude but a superior jumping technique.
Edited to add pictures.
Here is a picture of our almost fall:
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And after… he was able to learn and correct himself. Just made a LOT of mistakes.
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So many awkward photos.
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But so willing to try to do the flatwork that didn’t make sense to him.
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