How can we help?

[JockoHorse]

I am most disturbed by this whole “situation”. I am new to this board and joined primarily to respond. I have some personal experience with “rescue” horses and teenage owners.

Three years ago I “rescued” a Belgian Draft mare from an eighteen year old girl. Through some friends I found out that this mare was to be sent to the killer auction. The family was experiencing problems and they did not have the resources to care for the mare. That was what I was told.

I called the girl and went to see the horse. Like Touche, I was horrified at what I saw. The mare was skin and bones. I could tell she had good confirmation because I could see every bone the poor horse had. I bought her and proceeded to make arrangements to bring the horse home.

The girl and her family lived in an upper income, “horsey” area of town. They had a lovely home and food in their refrigerator and cars in the driveway. I saw no evidence of monetary problems or personal deprivation. The other horse and pony looked okay. Not great, but okay. But Tina was a rack of bones. I thought she was sick and I would end up putting her down. I just wanted to get her out of this situation.

I bought the mare. Odd thing, as I was about to load her in my trailer, the girl starts to cry and throws her arms around the horse and sobs into her skinny neck. I think it goes to show that an adult can have no clue what goes through a teenager’s head.

Three years later … I have a lovely 17 hand 2000 pound dressage partner. Funny thing, Tina requires the least amount of feed of my whole herd. Like me, Tina gets fat on air.

Because of my experience, I knew in my heart that MJ’s story did not ring true. I also believe that she may have truly loved the horse but wasn’t mature enough to care for a horse. The parents are to blame because they are responsible for the child. Remember all the tales of unwed mothers leaving their babies alone in an apartment or unattended in an automobile while they attend a party. Why should we be suprised by neglect and abuse of a horse?

That said I have no solution to this particular situation. I only urge you to take action when and where you see horse abuse and neglect. But remember posession is 9/10ths of the law. The owner has all the rights. Until they relinquish those rights, there really is very little that can be done.

[Erin]

And please, let’s try to keep this thread constructive and of the “issues” variety, instead of “individuals.” There’s enough of the latter going on on the other thread.

[muley]

And some are more so than others. After reading MJ’s posts. I would venture to guess that she is pretty immature.

And to Eglington,

You’re correct. You don’t have to explain yourself to anyone. You’re also right in calling the ASPCA. But, one doesn’t always know the circumstances surrounding a horse and his condition. There is a horse down the street from me that is a bag of bones. To the untrained eye, you would think he’s starving to death. In fact he probably is… but he’s also 35 years old. He eats well, get’s regular farriery care, with worming and dentistry done regurlarly. So, who’s to say…?? Would I put this horse down? Probably. But that’s not my business. As long as the horse is getting cared for, and seems to be happy and not sick…

[UndeniedGirl]

ohh! I want to join! I dont think there are really any BBers around here, but thats beside the point

I have a truck with a TB sized trailer, and would be willing to help out on other things too – also, to the person who suggested a webpage, I would love to help out in making that!

Cool idea (as long as it stays as Suzy intended it of course, and as mentioned, doesnt turn into a “police” group…but I dont think that has to happen )

Cass
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Fearfully, only time will tell, for it is all a leap of faith…

Life is not a spectator sport!

Smile…it makes people wonder what you have been doing

[suzy]

I don’t want to become the Horse Nazi. As I think this through further, I’m thinking along the lines of a database that COTH might allow us to post on their site. It would be a resource that people who need help could access. There is a lot of knowledge and compassion on this board that could be put to good use. I’m also wondering about creating a database of the rescue operations available nationwide. I’m personally only aware of one, and the only reason I know about that is that one of the workers posts here.

[Lisamarie8]

I’ve been following this whole thing, but posting little. When I have it’s been short and to the point.

Here’s an idea…
Yet another inquiry

There are more than that, but I can’t stand to go back and read all those posts, they make my stomach turn.

Unfortunatly we have NO control over whether or not M_J learns from this, but we DO have control on how we let it effect out lives. I choose to be productive and proactive. Count me in on the BB’ers Across America My e-mail is listed in my profile.

–Build a man a fire, and he’ll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life.

[Houdini]

I also think there should be a rule that if someone asks another person for help, the helper should NOT be allowed to then come to the board and discuss the person who asked for help and their problem. There shouls be an oath of confidentiality.

[Bumpkin]

I will help out. I don’t have a trailer, but I have a truck that is equiped to pull a trailer.
Also since I do JRT rescue I have a network of Animal Loving friends who would help out. Most of our local JRT Rescue have horses.

[muley]

I have nothing to hide either, but I’ll be darned if I would “allow” someone to come in to “inspect” and see if I’m doing what they think is acceptable.

Who is the judge? you? What if your standards are different than mine? You may think what I do with my horses is unkind… then what? What if you don’t like the way I feed, or turnout, or clean stalls? What if I take care of a wounded or sick horse differently than you deem correct?

You said exactly what I did! Let the Humane Society do thier job! That’s what they’re there for! It’s not up to us to go and tell people how to take care of their horses! It’s not up to us to judge either. Leave that to the experts.

[Eglinton]

Oh yes Anne FS, how awful! Settle down. Like I said, I would call the authorities…I would not go poking around myself. Luckily where I live the SPCA knows what they are doing, and they do save horses. I am not talking about blanketing or not blanketing…I am talking about abuse, neglect, starvation etc…these things are illegal…at least they are in Ontario. Also illegal is not providing adequate shelter. So, Anne FS and others who jumped down my throat, if you do any of these things, and you live in Ontario, and I drive by your farm and see a starving horse in you paddock, ya I will report it. Like I said, call me what you want. Look what happens when people DONT report things. I think we have all recently seen a horrible example of that. What exactly are you against?

[Houdini]

Poor Erin you must be very busy

[Goodyfourshoes]

edit

[beameup]

i had read that thread from the beginning and had grave misgivings about the messages coming from the poster (won’t mention her name here). I continued to read the thread, feeling more and more that something just wasn’t right. I had to go out of town for a few days and when I got back, i was horrified to read what happened. More than horrified…heartsick…been thinking about it all morning.
I wondered too, if all the good intentions and knowledge and kindness that is constantly displayed on this board could somehow be harnessed. Maybe a volunteer list of people for each area, who would be willing to take a drive over to help with a problem, give advice, lend a hand… i don’t know what…
the young lady involved is obviously a very troubled child, you wonder why her family ignored an animal so obviously in distress. it doesn’t take a genius to see that an animal is dying of starvation, and that someone responsible had to intervene right away…
i am so troubled by that thread…i didn’t post on it because i soon realized that other BB’ers were basically feeling the same thing and had expressed themselves quite well…but i for one would be happy to volunteer and lend a hand or advice to people in my area…we could set up some kind of phone hot line…just running through some ideas here…nothing concrete, but i agree that it would be a nice idea.

[Erin]

A database might be a bit out of the COTH’s league. (You don’t even wanna know what they spend just for the BB )

But what could easily be done is to get a list of BBers willing help out, and change their “titles” to indicate that – i.e. where it says “member,” it could say something else, like we’ve done with the BB Guides.

They could list ways they feel qualified to help in their profiles.

[Seven]

I’m in NY but I have a truck and trailer and will travel anywhere.

I like the idea of changing titles and profiles but is there something else we can do to “get the word out”? Perhaps some of us could contact the rescue groups we know, and have some sort of message (mission statement?) put on their web sites … a message that would provide a link or something so that people who aren’t yet willing to turn to the rescue route might still be willing to take some personal help and intervention?

=^+^=

[suzy]

Miniwelsh, I get what you’re saying. What I was thinking/wondering was if the person in question had seen this site that I’m envisioning, would it have compelled her to call the vet sooner. Maybe, maybe not. It’s anyone’s guess in that one instance. However, I think there are people who would take advantage of it.

Regarding books on the topics I mentioned, I must have over 100 horse books and not all of the topics I listed in my earlier post are contained in any one single book.

[suzy]

Yea, Anne, this lady was WAAAAYYYY out of line IMO. Besides being a busybody, she was TRESPASSING.

Agree with everyone who has mentioned the confidentiality issue. If you help someone out, you don’t then turn around and spill their story on the internet.

Meanwhile, it’s very cool to read everyone’s well thought out impressions and suggestions. I’m not sure what the ultimate solution is, but the ideas being generated are impressive.

[Eglinton]

Oh and Muley… I said I would CALL the authorities, I didn’t say I was the authorities!! I am not about to go poking around someones farm, but it is not hard to tell if something is terribly wrong. Have you ever tried to confront someone who is treating a horse badly?? Does not work. They are ALWAYS right. So yes, instead of getting into a huge fight with some idiot…anyway I’m not sure why I am justifying myself to you! People do call the humane society you know, that’s what they are there for.

[suzy]

My intention was not to get people to rehash an already overworked topic, but to come up with some constructive ideas. Luckily, there’s still an abundance of that coming through.

[PMJ]

I think the idea of a help network is a good idea. I would like some weigh in from a legal standpoint, but I do think if someone says, “Hey, I need some input could you help” it would be great to do so. Count me in. I also have a trailer.

Now, something I have observed that to me is abuse while it is not considered as such by prevelant organization. A barn that teaches young kids and beginning riders is where my friend kept her horse. The place has too many horses, not enough pasture, and the hay that is fed is poor quality. As a result, the horses are cranky and while in okay condition, certainly embarassing. My friend’s horse went lame this summer while she was out of town (if you want to know why I did not check on her, I am not welcome due to a disagreement on basic care/neglect). The reason the horse was lame was because these “professionals” who turn away business only have stalls with plywood that starts 4’ up the stall–no bottom partition–and she was constantly kicking. They did not let her know that her horse was lame. Eventually, she did move her horse here and she is sound, fat, and a much nicer animal! These people are dangerous because they have just enough information to keep them out of trouble. It is a frustrating situation especially when they constantly run down other professionals like the farrier and vet. I feel for the horses. BTW they also run a breeding program and their mares lost 3 foals this year–except for having them initially checked the mares get no other broodmare care and are in a lesson program where they are used 2-3 hours 5 days a week.