I also find it difficult to think that 5 minutes a day would offer any benefit as far as fitness level. It’s much better to interact with your horse on a daily basis than just on a weekend basis, but the question was about fitness specifically. @SuzieQNutter - are you being literal with your answer of 5 vs 35 or is that just an analogy?
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I find with my 3.5 year old, I can make progress in small 5-10 minute doses. When he gets what Im asking, especially for the first time, I’ll praise the crap out of him and call it a day…if he doesn’t get it, I don’t like to work for too long because he will get overfaced (I did this once and it was obvious even though he was still trying). No issues with retention this way either. Probably not going to condition a horse for a 50 mile endurance ride in 5 min/day sessions though, but a lot of good work can be done in short training intervals.
Given the choice, I think the 5 days a week for 35 mins is what’s better for the horse hands down, than two longer rides. The two longer rides is prob much more enjoyable from the riders perspective, especially if the horse isn’t maintaining condition or has discomfort issues (it very well might make that worse). My childhood show mare was like this, she started getting squirrely at shows and it was obvious she wasn’t tolerating that life like she did in her younger days. I retired he from showing when she was 17 or 18 not long after that started. Looking back now, there may have been a health issue, but she went on to be a child’s backyard trail and basic lesson horse and lived into her early 30’s pretty happily from the sounds of it.
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@Fjordboycharlie - Correct, if you aren’t looking to condition I would agree that a lot can be achieved in shorter intervals. I know the correct way would be 5 days a week at 35 minutes, but I was talking specific to the situation… months of weekend rides or two weeks of regular work. I suppose in the long run it really doesn’t matter as it is what it is and it will vary per horse, but I was just curious. If someone had told me pick one or the other to ride, I would have chosen the horse that had been out all summer. Not saying that is right or wrong, just saying instinctively if I was given the choice that’s what I would have leaned towards having no other facts.
As of this weekend he was totally fine. I poked, prodded, pinched, and stretched… nada. Lunged him both days and he was feisty (as in he wanted to buck and play instead of lunge or listen to me), but settled in perfectly fine. Did his paces without a misstep. With cool weather I expect nothing less! I don’t know if that makes me happy or sad as it would have been nice to have an obvious answer. Still waiting to hear from the vet on availability to come out.
If you break it down 5 minutes x 7 days equals 35 minutes. So yes literally a horse ridden 5 minutes a day will be better than a horse ridden 35 minutes on a Sunday.
So first horse was a large green pony. I was told off for not doing all my jobs in a day. I replied that I was riding the pony for the half an hour they were paying for and that ate into my time.
I was told no by my Grand Prix dressage rider employer. You are being paid for half an hour. You work with the pony for half an hour only. That includes catching, tacking up, riding, untacking and putting away.
I came up with a 5 minute work out, a green pony so no lateral work to start with and not able to canter for a whole minute, but with in 2.5 months that pony was fit and strong, muscled and working elementary.
Fast forward 2 decades and I bought a tb off the track. After saying I would NEVER buy a horse off the track. He raced 5 weeks prior was still on the same feed but not being trained anymore when the owners faxed through an A4 sheet of paper with the words SHOOT HIM in large capital letters written covering the whole page.
I couldn’t touch his mouth as they took him for a 5 hour trail ride the day before we picked him up, and told me I would be so proud of him, as he was on the bit the whole time.
His mouth was so sore I had to ride with my head turned to the side, so as he didn’t knock me unconscious, if I accidentally touched the rein, which tells you where his head was.
He had no idea how to go in a straight line.
He had no idea how to go in a circle.
I lunged without side reins and got on him for a walk, trot and a canter with no contact UP the arena as it was one I had made and on a slope.
He went off on the incorrect lead once doing that. I said uh uh. Got the correct lead and I said good boy and he never went off on the incorrect lead again. So I was probably only riding him for a few minutes to start with.
We worked up to lunging with loose side reins and riding about 5 minutes a day.
One day I tightened the side reins a couple of holes. (I never pull a horses head in with side reins or reins) and WOW a dressage horse. I no longer lunged, I could get on and ride.
So about 15 minutes a day riding.
Exactly one month to the day Mum came out. Did I get a compliment? Did she say he was going well? Nope.
Her comment was that he should be doing lateral work now.
4 weeks off the track and that is what she said. What would she know? She has only been riding for 50 years!
The next day in sitting trot I asked for shoulder in on the centre line, as no real outside to my arena. He did it. I praised. I asked the other way. He did it. I praised. I hopped off.
The next day after shoulder in, in sitting trot on the center line, I asked for travers. He did it. I praised. I asked the other way. I praised. I hopped off.
The next day after shoulder in and travers. In sitting trot on the centre line I asked for half pass. He did it. I praised. I asked the other way. He did it. I praised and hopped off.
I lay in bed that night thinking how impossible this was. The next day I thought f### it and I threw everything at him. Turn on the forehand yes. Pirouette yep. Canter half pass. Sure.F### it lets try piaffe. That horse slowed right down and went forward again without flicking an ear.
I was at a loss and emailed an instructor who had put up a notice with her English Credentials. (I am in Australia) who advertised first lesson free and excels with tbs off the track.
She emailed back that she could help me with any problem I was having, whether he was bolting, bucking, spinning, rearing, etc.
I emailed back and told her my problem was that in a month the horse had surpassed his rider and I was at a loss as what to do next.
She came out and said let’s see his lateral work. Her only comment was, he finds that easy doesnt he? All she wanted me to do was go and teach at pony club with her so not much help to me.
I took him to my instructor and he said he had never seen a horse so in tune with his rider. Both ears were listening to me the whole time.
I found if I rode him for 20 minutes a day he was strong, muscled and healthy and I could teach him something new.
If I missed a day there was a change. I could cement what we had learned butI could NOT teach him something new.
When we went out and trail rode we did go out for longer and he had no problem with that.
We also used to go and gallop after strange cattle in our place that probably took a bit longer. A farmer agisted next door, dumped them, went home and they would come on our land.
I was sick of it. I figured they were fair game! Andy and I to the rescue. YEEHAW We harassed it until it went home. Our cattle knew we weren’t after them. The lay chewing their curds. He learned an eye for a beast.
If anyone knows beef cattle, you know that you can not bring up a beef cow and a calf by itself, you have to muster the whole herd.
That 16.3hh dressage horse with me in a dressage saddle brought up a cow and fairly new calf.
He want from walk to canter sideways to bring them back to the fence and canter sideways the other way to stop them going down the fence. I was on him but not doing anything but going with him. He was on a loose rein and he put them in the yards.
One day down there I SWEAR this is true. I thought and canter and he cantered from walk. 3 times. My instructor said it is not true, something changed, even if it was just my heart beat. He did it from something other than my thought.
So yes if you can only ride 5 minutes a day because of employer, dark, family, work, etc etc etc, choose that over not riding at all.
If it is the dead of winter use that time to lunge or tack up and lead in hand instead as I have never ridden in that cold but imagine that you need more than 30 seconds in walk.
It is not just the physical it is the mental that it helps with.
Just my 2 cents and a thing I learned from 2 horses.
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If you break it down 5 minutes x 7 days equals 35 minutes. So yes literally a horse ridden 5 minutes a day will be better than a horse ridden 35 minutes on a Sunday.
So first horse was a large green pony. I was told off for not doing all my jobs in a day. I replied that I was riding the pony for the half an hour they were paying for and that ate into my time.
I was told no by my Grand Prix dressage rider employer. You are being paid for half an hour. You work with the pony for half an hour only. That includes catching, tacking up, riding, untacking and putting away.
I came up with a 5 minute work out, a green pony so no lateral work to start with and not able to canter for a whole minute, but with in 2.5 months that pony was fit and strong, muscled and working elementary.
Fast forward 2 decades and I bought a tb off the track. After saying I would NEVER buy a horse off the track. He raced 5 weeks prior was still on the same feed but not being trained anymore when the owners faxed through an A4 sheet of paper with the words SHOOT HIM in large capital letters written covering the whole page.
I couldn’t touch his mouth as they took him for a 5 hour trail ride the day before we picked him up, and told me I would be so proud of him, as he was on the bit the whole time.
His mouth was so sore I had to ride with my head turned to the side, so as he didn’t knock me unconscious, if I accidentally touched the rein, which tells you where his head was.
He had no idea how to go in a straight line.
He had no idea how to go in a circle.
I lunged without side reins and got on him for a walk, trot and a canter with no contact UP the arena as it was one I had made and on a slope.
He went off on the incorrect lead once doing that. I said uh uh. Got the correct lead and I said good boy and he never went off on the incorrect lead again. So I was probably only riding him for a few minutes to start with.
We worked up to lunging with loose side reins and riding about 5 minutes a day.
One day I tightened the side reins a couple of holes. (I never pull a horses head in with side reins or reins) and WOW a dressage horse. I no longer lunged, I could get on and ride.
So about 15 minutes a day riding.
Exactly one month to the day Mum came out. Did I get a compliment? Did she say he was going well? Nope.
Her comment was that he should be doing lateral work now.
4 weeks off the track and that is what she said. What would she know? She has only been riding for 50 years!
The next day in sitting trot I asked for shoulder in on the centre line, as no real outside to my arena. He did it. I praised. I asked the other way. He did it. I praised. I hopped off.
The next day after shoulder in, in sitting trot on the center line, I asked for travers. He did it. I praised. I asked the other way. I praised. I hopped off.
The next day after shoulder in and travers. In sitting trot on the centre line I asked for half pass. He did it. I praised. I asked the other way. He did it. I praised and hopped off.
I lay in bed that night thinking how impossible this was. The next day I thought f### it and I threw everything at him. Turn on the forehand yes. Pirouette yep. Canter half pass. Sure.F### it lets try piaffe. That horse slowed right down and went forward again without flicking an ear.
I was at a loss and emailed an instructor who had put up a notice with her English Credentials. (I am in Australia) who advertised first lesson free and excels with tbs off the track.
She emailed back that she could help me with any problem I was having, whether he was bolting, bucking, spinning, rearing, etc.
I emailed back and told her my problem was that in a month the horse had surpassed his rider and I was at a loss as what to do next.
She came out and said let’s see his lateral work. Her only comment was, he finds that easy doesnt he? All she wanted me to do was go and teach at pony club with her so not much help to me.
I took him to my instructor and he said he had never seen a horse so in tune with his rider. Both ears were listening to me the whole time.
I found if I rode him for 20 minutes a day he was strong, muscled and healthy and I could teach him something new.
If I missed a day there was a change. I could cement what we had learned butI could NOT teach him something new.
When we went out and trail rode we did go out for longer and he had no problem with that.
We also used to go and gallop after strange cattle in our place that probably took a bit longer. A farmer agisted next door, dumped them, went home and they would come on our land.
I was sick of it. I figured they were fair game! Andy and I to the rescue. YEEHAW We harassed it until it went home. Our cattle knew we weren’t after them. The lay chewing their cuds. He learned an eye for a beast.
If anyone knows beef cattle, you know that you can not bring up a beef cow and a calf by itself, you have to muster the whole herd.
That 16.3hh dressage horse with me in a dressage saddle brought up a cow and fairly new calf.
He want from walk to canter sideways to bring them back to the fence and canter sideways the other way to stop them going down the fence. I was on him but not doing anything but going with him. He was on a loose rein and he put them in the yards.
One day down there I SWEAR this is true. I thought and canter and he cantered from walk. 3 times. My instructor said it is not true, something changed, even if it was just my heart beat. He did it from something other than my thought.
So yes if you can only ride 5 minutes a day because of employer, dark, family, work, etc etc etc, choose that over not riding at all.
If it is the dead of winter use that time to lunge or tack up and lead in hand instead as I have never ridden in that cold but imagine that you need more than 30 seconds in walk.
It is not just the physical it is the mental that it helps with.
Just my 2 cents and a thing I learned from 2 horses.
8 Likes
So interestingly enough (and sorry I know this has kind of morphed away from your original question OP) there have been several posts on FB endurance pages recently about the importance of rest. Most of them following the guidelines that once your horse has been properly conditioned, less is more in the way of exercise. Most riders actively competing at 50 miles are only riding there horse in competition (aka 1 50 mile ride every 3-4 weeks) and maybe one or two walk rides in between. That’s it. Successful riders who have thousands of competition miles on decade horses (aka a horse and rider have completed at least a 50 mile ride for 10 years- there’s no way to fake that soundness and conditioning).
This morning though one popped up that I thought I would share here- I redacted the names but let’s just say the poster is no novice
A lot of things go into making an endurance horse. Much less a 100 miler.
Now, what I’m about to tell you how important REST is to the Endurance horse.
xxxx, owned and ridden by
xxxx
just tied for First at the Big South Fork 100. It was a pretty nasty 100 (aka it was pretty hot and humid with gnarly trails) and missed high vet score by 2.5 points. Let me say this was her last ride to make her Decade Team.
This mare is 20 years old… Yes 20. And here’s the kicker, she’s been sat on 21 times since mid October of LAST year. Longest conditioning ride was at the Mentor training weekend…25 miles.
NEVER UNDERESTIMATE REST.
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@tabula rashah - Please don’t apologize, I’m still finding this conversation very interesting and it is helpful! I googled what marathon runners do between marathons just for funsies and found some really good information that supports what you are saying as well. Very intriguing the different opinions and experiences!
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I find it fascinating too 
One thing I think that really drew me to endurance what the mix of science with riding- how things tend to be more based off of research than tradition.
In addition to the rest time vrs work time, I follow this “timeline” as my goal for my horses in bringing them along slowly
The time it takes for various body tissues to adapt and condition, are as follows: [LIST=1]
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@tabula rashah - I love that there is science behind it! I think you have definitely gotten me interested in finding some new reading material… any sites or books you can recommend would be appreciated!
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Endurance Introspection is a very good one
AERC has tons of stuff on their site (there’s a tab that says education) plus they offer a lot of webinars (but not sure if you have to be a member)
The education section of the Old Dominion Endurance site (although some of the info on here I feel is a touch outdated in places)
Any research you can find by Susan Garlinghouse DVM or Sarah Ralston DVM
And if you are on FB, the AERC page and the SERA (Southeast Endurance Riders Association) are really great resources and discussions are generally very reasonable
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This aligns with reading I’ve done over the years, that fit horses lose condition more slowly than fit humans. So there’s that pesky rest thing once they are fit and conditioned.
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@tabula rashah - Thank you for the links and recommendations! I will definitely do some research.
@Djones - I don’t know if he would be at the point where he was considered fit enough to have ample time between workouts. 3 years ago (for years) he was ridden 4-5 times a week… then 3 days a week… and now 2 days a week. Whether this applies to him or not, the science part is still really intriguing and something I want to have more knowledge about in the future. Do you follow this “rule” with your own horses?
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What jumped out at me from your description of the episode was that his back became rigid and you knew that as a signal that something was about to blow.
Is it possible that he was typing up? That might mean that he’s has other, less serious typing up episodes in the past that have caused him enough pain to blow up, but they’ve been seen as behavioral. They seem to go away with work, as behavioral episodes might, but also as tying up episodes might.
Anyway, here’s some information on tying up:
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Not saying it’s not possible but… every time I’ve ever seen a horse tie up, they are very reluctant to move (actually a friend’s horse tied up at a race a few months ago and her first sign was that he was totally chill when normally he is bouncing off the walls during a race)
I do, I think. Now I would not undertake 6 hours of riding if I was riding a horse who was only getting 2, 30-minute rides during the weeks leading up to it, if only b/c I myself would get sore lol. I’m blessed with a spouse who helps keep ours ridden and our trails are all hilly with some spots for a good canter or gait. They stay in pretty good shape
My 27 year old Morgan gelding is still going strong! He gets ridden a few times a week, and still goes out for 10km (~6 miles) trail rides. His rides are mostly walking, with a little bit of trot or canter thrown in.
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@Djones - I really hope I’m not making the wrong impression; he’s been worked (ridden/lunged/ground work/etc) consistently for the whole 10 years I’ve owned him. Even through my pregnancy and while I was on maternity leave he was getting worked at least 4 days a week. I also am definitely not riding a straight 6 hours in a day! Maybe on Saturday I’ll ride and do a short hack across the road and that’s about 2 hours. Then on Sunday we’ll meet up with friends and maybe we’re out for 3 hours. Then there are some weekends that we have other things going on - parties, kiddo is sick, whatever - and I’ll only get 2, 30-minute rides in, but that’s not very often. I spend a lot of time with him when I do; grooming, hand walking out to the good grazing areas, just petting him while he’s in the barn munching on hay. That’s our time. You’re very lucky that you have a spouse that rides! I would adore that! Do you have trails on your property, too??
@Cabaret SK - That makes me so happy!!! How long have you owned him? Is that him in your profile picture? We always joke that my guy will be 35 by the time he settles down and then he’ll call it quits. :lol: He just loves to do whatever you’re doing and is regularly in the way whenever you’re trying to work on something in the barn being all nosy.
@Djones - I really hope I’m not making the wrong impression; he’s been worked (ridden/lunged/ground work/etc) consistently for the whole 10 years I’ve owned him. Even through my pregnancy and while I was on maternity leave he was getting worked at least 4 days a week. I also am definitely not riding a straight 6 hours in a day! Maybe on Saturday I’ll ride and do a short hack across the road and that’s about 2 hours. Then on Sunday we’ll meet up with friends and maybe we’re out for 3 hours. Then there are some weekends that we have other things going on - parties, kiddo is sick, whatever - and I’ll only get 2, 30-minute rides in, but that’s not very often. I spend a lot of time with him when I do; grooming, hand walking out to the good grazing areas, just petting him while he’s in the barn munching on hay. That’s our time. You’re very lucky that you have a spouse that rides! I would adore that! Do you have trails on your property, too??
@Cabaret SK - That makes me so happy!!! How long have you owned him? Is that him in your profile picture? We always joke that my guy will be 35 by the time he settles down and then he’ll call it quits. :lol: He just loves to do whatever you’re doing and is regularly in the way whenever you’re trying to work on something in the barn being all nosy.
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Hey, you’re good with me, I’m not assuming anything, sorry if it reads that way
And that is where the realm of overfed and underworked can come into play.
It is a fine balance of feed to work and when it gets out of balance you don’t know, but it takes them just as long to get out if it than it took for them to get into it.
This has nothing to do with how much they are fed or how much work they do, how many years of training or how good they have been in the past.
Feed goes to their head. It can just mean that a few months ago the grass grew and their feed was not changed accordingly.
This can happen on low octain feed as well as high octain feeds. The time line is just shorter for heating feeds.
The solution is put the horse to work, change feeds if needed and realise that it will not work overnight if it took longer than that for them to get into it.
