@Djones - It did not, I was just hoping it didn’t sound like I was riding 30 minutes 2x a week!
@SuzieQNutter - I’m having a really hard time following what you’re talking about. I didn’t mention anything about feed…? He’s out on pasture 24/7 and his feed does get balanced appropriately?
Balanced appropriately for him is the key.
It changes with temperature of the days, grass growing in turn out, loss of hair or growing hair with seasons, age of horse, etc etc etc. The horse determines the balance, not humans or feed companies.
We had a horse that did exactly as you described my company horse instead of a company car. We were not allowed to have our own horses so I sold my tb to have him.
When Mum lost her horse, I bought back James and gave him to her, the quietest tb in the world.
Mum did the right things, she had him on hay only and rode him an hour a day.
It was a week before she called me for help. She took him off property down the road to an oval. She had to dismount. She thought I have not gotten off a horse for 50 years and she remounted. She had to dismount again. She now had a 16.2hh Tb whirling around her to try and walk up a hill along the road to get home.
I was called. I got on him to take him out. He had started leaping. Okay where there is space, Not so okay when he did it in front of a road sign where he was going to land in front of it! Was he going to bounce left or right? Phew I stayed with him.
I took him on a long ride and he settled back to normal.
Yes he was on hay only and being ridden an hour a day but as a company horse I had been riding him 4 - 5 hours a day so that was way out of whack.
It takes them as long to get out of it as it takes them to get into it. It had just happened with James so he came back to normal with that ride I took him on.
With horses that it happens more slowly because of gradual overfeeding it can take them a week or two to get into it, it then takes them a week or two to get out of it.
I mentioned this in my first post when I said I would give the horse a pass as not being too dangerous to ride if it is because of being in the realm of overfed and underworked, which as I said has nothing to do with training.
James was trained in dressage and jumping as well as a trail ride guide.
I own an Arabian, had Arabians for the last 10 years. They are show horses but I have tried trail riding. All of mine do incredibly well on the trail. Until that ONE thing gets them, and it may be months or years before that happens. And then they lose their ever loving minds. It just happens.
However, they do their job and go to shows without this happening. They ride in the arena completely quietly to the point a beginner can get on safely. If I lunge with no saddle and no bit they are allowed to play kick and run. Saddle means it’s work time. Saying that I have also found that if you change things or something happens they can become squirrely at times. IE. Put a saddle with rear cinch flaps on…scary running and bucking on the lunge IE. Neighbor that is never ever out is in the back yard hidden behind trees going in and out, same.
So my questions would be how does the horse behave at home? I think you mentioned fine, but some misbehavior? I would start by solving this first. He may be trying to tell you something and it’s escalating from there.
Arabians are sensitive, extremely so. But also they communicate the problem if you can stand to listen and patiently look for it.
Neither of my geldings could handle high sugar or high protein. Not saying none of them can, just that on mine it made them too much for my amount of energy expended when riding them.
Just some pointers and some thoughts.
Yes, that’s him a few years ago! I’ve been riding him since he was 15, and owned him since he was 18. He now, in addition to doing trails with my mom, has a new teen girl who trail rides him a few times a week. (On top of his role as herd boss, which he takes very seriously!)
Overall update! Vet was out yesterday - no ulcers (yay!), no lameness, but she said he was tight in his shoulders and one hip so recommended having the chiropractor out. I don’t know if that was pre-existing or if that’s a result of him falling over backwards. I have 2 I am going to call to get quotes from.
@Amym600 - So nice to hear from someone else that has Arabian’s! At home he’ll get a little bug up his butt and do the playful canter/buck/hop, high stepping trot, stuff. Then he’ll look at me ears all perked and be like, “are you going to do anything…”? I let him get it out of his system and then he’s fine; down to business. He’s not naughty in the sense that he’s pulling on me, rearing, kicking, etc. Out on the trail he will get squirrely; snort at rocks, want to go faster than the rest of the group but not want to leave the group so he’ll just piaffe instead, gets antsy when the group stops and he doesn’t want to… he’s always ridden on a loose rain and never feels out of control. He’s a hotter horse an I know that. He’s been on the same feed the last 2 years. I switched when I went from 4-5 days a week of work to 2-3 and it gets adjusted depending on the time of year and how much the pastures are growing. They always have access to 24/7 hay grown by the people I keep him with. I know when I was buying hay I had to be really consistent with my source or he’d get real hot if someone had too much alfalfa mixed in. They have none.
@Cabaret SK - That’s amazing! How wonderful for him! I think the ones that like to be busy would feel shunned if we retired them when they reached a certain age!
Watched a training video a while back where a woman described her “crazy” horse. She said they’d go out riding and he’d startle a tiny bit at a rabbit, then be fine, then startle at another rabbit, and then be fine, and so on. Then he’d see the 12th rabbit and pitch a fit and throw her and race for home.
He told her the horse isn’t crazy; he just has a 12 rabbit limit.
For some reason his simple assessment wholly transformed the way I handle scared/anxious horses. I am myself also wholly cured of freaking out when any of mine get to feeling potentially volcanic under me. I and my students simply get off and work at getting whatever horse is starting to flip out, to spit out rabbits. Our last episode involved a super chill Spanish Mustang becoming more and more tense as we rode with his buddies along a busy riding and biking trail. We were out for a long 15 mile ride—about two miles from the end I realized the student was getting really uncomfortable. I asked him what was up. He said the horse felt like he was going to explode. I looked more closely at the horse, asked the rider to step off, and had us all walk down by the river a ways away from the trail where things were quieter. Our other three horses immediately began grazing enthrusuastucally, but the big guy was having none of it. He paced and stared and worried non stop. We stayed for 45 minutes, walking him up and down—he’d snatch a bite then pace some more. Suddenly he heaved a big sigh, put his head down and started grazing. We left him to it for about ten minutes, then mounted up. He got back on the trail like the old gentle guy he is and walked calmly the final couple of miles as though nothing had happened.
Ive learned now to watch for too many rabbits so we can ward off the overload before it gets big. The other day it was a flotilla of brightly colored kayaks. 🤣 The horse that couldn’t hack the sight took about 30 mins to relax and believe the scary monsters weren’t coming back. After he grazed calmly for about ten minutes I told his rider it was ok to get back on.
I feel like I’ve entered a whole new realm of safe riding.
Interesting thread. A bit OT…
For those who only ride 3-4 days a week, how are your horses kept? Stalls? Pasture?
Right now, I’m only riding 1-2 days a week. My girls are out 24/7 on several acres with a big hill
Just throwing out another thought:
I’ve often wondered why we spend endless hours suspecting a physical problem in horses, and never seriously consider a mental one, except in a slightly jokey way “crazy”.
I watched my senior dog get afflicted with dementia, and it was a lot like human dementia. He wandered the house in the night and got lost, didn’t recognize things, sometimes didn’t recognize me, had disorientation and what appeared for all the world to be visual hallucinations, became incontinent, fell, forgot to eat.
It makes sense to me that horses too can have a range of mental health challenges. Dementia and Alzheimer’s come from plaques in the brain. What if horses also get these plaques, with a variety of behavioral changes?
OP, not saying this about your horse necessarily; just reacting to the conversation in general.
Hi everyone!
Unfortunately I don’t have much of an update… he’s still inconsistent with his behavior. I put him on Buteless in hopes that if he had any overall body aches and pains it would help alleviate those; and while he seems more comfortable, it didn’t alter his behavior. A week ago I also put him on a calming supplement to see if that would help. It says it takes 2 - 4 weeks to kick in, so right now it’s just a waiting game. He’s still a sweet, playful boy, but I no longer let my 4 year old daughter ride him, which is heartbreaking to admit.
@anon38350891 - my friend (and the woman he stays with) have discussed that maybe he is experiencing some form of dementia. Not too long ago I was lunging him and he was doing great; just plodding along and then he stopped and looked at me like he forgot I was there. I asked him to move forward and he legitimately looked baffled about what I was asking him to do. It probably took me 3 - 5 minutes before he snapped back in to it and went off lunging as usual. Weight is great, coat is great, he’s moving out nicely… I am starting to think more and more that it is not a physical issue.
Thank you all for continuing to care!
Several times in the past few years I have heard on the People’s Pharmacy (on NPR) that the anticholinergic drugs can make dementia WORSE.
For one a lot of elderly people are on pills for bladder control. These drugs are anticholinergic drugs.
Benedryl is also one.
There are also ARTHRITIS drugs in this group of medicines (I tried one decades ago and quickly realized that I was rapidly headed for a nursing home in my forties for dementia type mental issues. I immediately quit the drug.)
You might want to check with your vet if you horse is on one of the anticholinergic drugs if you think your horse is developing dementia.
Hi Jackie,
He wasn’t on any medication prior to this, but I will be sure to ask about both of the supplements he is on now! Thanks for the tip!
"he looks at things a little longer, he’ll give little rears when he wants to keep moving, he’ll buck and play at the ask for a canter on cool days, and sometimes he will even piaffe down the trail… "
If he continued this behavior after working with a trainer it doesn’t sound like his problems were truly under control. Personally, I wouldn’t consider any of the above behaviors acceptable, especially in a trail horse.
At this point he might be tired of trying to control his behavior and decided to go back to doing whatever he wants to do and ignore you.
Good luck, hopefully something will work.
I read the beginning of this thread and the end. I was there once, with a terrible but could be worse ending. I bought a horse with Al Marah bloodlines from someone in the Al Marah family. The problem I thought I could deal with was the horse was 4 and was part of a herd that basically ran loose all day except for feedings, so he’d never been touched. I planned to take it really slowly and I did. It took me a week in June to lure him in to a round pen, another few days to touch him to get a halter on him.
Then daily touching, grooming, sacking him out, picking up feet, eventually saddling and bridling. He did all the natural horseman stuff. I put the trailer in the middle of the pasture and after twenty minutes of desensitization he walked in and out repeatedly.
My athletic son mounted him in September in the round pen without a problem, by October I was riding him in the pasture and some very short trail rides near my house with a buddy.
In the winter I moved him to a trainer’s indoor stable and arena. There was more noise, commotion, we worked indoors all winter long thru freezing weather.
I brought him home in March and took him back to the trainer’s once or twice a week. I did a few short trail rides near the house, he was OK.
But he was always scared of cattle, which I knew he would see sooner or later. I would walk him up and down the drive at the trainers house to see the cattle in a distant field. One day there was a loose calf. The trainer and I went into a paddock with his horse, mine on a long line, and the calf. He flipped out. The calf was 50 yards away or more. Think football field. He broke away from me, attempted to jump out of the paddock and broke his leg above the knee.
The only good part was that this didn’t happen when I was riding him. Could I eventually been killed or injured on him? Would he have turned into a good trail horse? Who knows?
My story gets worse. Months later I bought a 5 year old Arab, broke, kept in a field with cattle. Was perfect around his trails. I bring him home, he flips out a every new blade of grass and anything he thinks he sees. Drops his shoulder and bolts at the drop of anything. I have enough of this, I sell him to a very experienced endurance rider, he does the same with her, and eventually he ends up at a children’s petting farm cause he is gorgeous and has great ground manners, just don’t ride him.
My last horse is a children’s lesson pony and my grand kids love her. This was’t my first rodeo. I had had horses and broke and trained and rode for the last 50 years. I had an Al Marah breeding 1/2 arab in 1980 and my son had a RR breeding in 1986. I think today’s Arabs have a real tendency to be nut cases.
Perhaps its time to let your guy be a pasture pet and babysitter.
Do you believe this to be true for Grand Prix Level Dressage horses that spook at a leaf in the arena? Or Jumpers that buck after jumps? I am not comparing my horse to these by any means, but my point is that these horses are constantly in training with top league trainers, exposed to a tremendous amount of external stimulation… yet… still act like horses. Still have quirks and personalities and “less than ideal” behavior on occasion.
I have one of these. His dam followed the same pattern according to her former owner (who bred the mare to get him). The pattern was this: fine til about 12 years of age and increasing sanity issues. Multiple vets have checked his physical wellbeing over the years (he’s now 26) and no health issues were present; we even suspected vision and/or hearing from the reactions at various times in varying conditions. The conclusion seems to be that at some point the brain does not appropriately interpret what the eyes and ears deliver to the brain. I did not ever consider selling - the height of irresponsibility, IMO, selling a horse with these issues to someone else who might get hurt. So. What made a difference, finally, with this horse? I’m not totally sure and of course there will be some piling on of the resident non-veterinarian experts here when I say, what made the difference, finally, and made him manageable by anyone and now completely predictable in his behavior, was putting him on pergolide. He doesn’t even back his ears or offer to bite or raise a threatening hind leg anymore - and the difference was nearly immediate. And no, he did not experience “pergolide veil.” There are still things that go wrong with horses that we do not fully understand and I am of the opinion that 99 percent of the things that go wrong are about equally divided into human caused or pain.
Very interesting! Also Arabian? How long did the Dam live and how did they decide to treat her? Thankfully he has been solid as far as not being aggressive since his “episode”, for which I am extremely grateful. Did your vet recommend starting Pergolide or was that a decision you came to on your own? I am not familiar with “Pregolide Veil” so will have to do some research. Did you ever get a Cushings test done?
Sorry for all of the questions!
The dam was humanely euthanized by her owner when she became unmanageable (which is why I said “former owner” in my post. The use of pergolide was veterinarian prescribed after the most recent of yearly tests showed this gelding to be PPID. I have every horse over the age of 20 tested for Cushings with or without any outward symptoms as sometimes Cushings tends to be silent and only revealed by labs. The immediate improvement of his behavior wasn’t expected and may, of course, be purely coincidental, that’s my caveat so I’m not accused of failing to institute a double-blind study (and the usual non-vet experts here can heave a sigh of relief and probably a bit of disappointment that they cannot start excoriating me for doing this on my own). Not stating the breed because there is so much breed prejudice exercised by those who post here.
The difference is that the types of horses you mentioned are being ridden by top riders who can handle the behavior and are willing to tolerate it because so few horses can make it to the very top. However, those behaviors aren’t that common because at that level the horses know their job and a professional needs a reliable horse to get the wins necessary for their career. A pro will remove a horse with serious behavior issues, no matter how talented.
If you don’t mind the “squirrely” behavior that’s fine, he’s your horse. What I understand from what you’ve written is that the bucks, little rears and jigging (“piaffe”) are regular behaviors for him. Many (most?) horses will never buck/rear/jig, yet you seem to think these are just quirks. I’ve had my mare for three years and she’s never done any of that.
What I’m trying to say is that I think you were tolerating behavior that shouldn’t have been tolerated and now it’s reached a point where he doesn’t want to behave any more.
“He did his usual little rears to show his disapproval of stopping but when we did return to the trail his back was stiff as a board. I know this signal and dismounted immediately.” You put him in control and rewarded his behavior. If he’s doing this after working with a trainer then imo he still has problems.
Regarding your description of the horse when you bought/acquired him, I wonder why you choose him for a trail horse.
However good for you for having the wisdom to work with a trainer when you got him. 
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