How do I eliminate HAY for my horse? Need some guidance

[beau159]

I’ve done some thread searching but can’t quite find exactly what I am looking for.

I have an 8-year-old AQHA mare that has issues with heaves / asthma (or whatever label you choose to call it). Vet suggested for next winter to take her off hay. I have NEVER done that before so I have zero clue what they need nutritionally, and how much they will need to eat as far as pounds. Historically, I feed hay in the winter months in the cold north (North Dakota) and then during the summer they graze on pasture 24/7 as I have lots of acerage.

She is allergic to oats, soy and flax. (Yes, I had her on a flax supplement last summer before testing and I do feel she did worse on the flax supplement so I just do not want to re-introduce any flax to her at this time.) So currently, she has 24/7 access to pasture and hay, and then most days I give her 1 cup of Purina Outlast, about 1 1/2 pounds of alfalfa pellets, and about 1 pound of Hygain Zero. She’s not a super hard keeper, but I kept this up over the winter and she’s looking really, really nice this spring. (last winter she got thinner than I liked)

My place is not set up to have a horse with special needs. I do not have a barn. All I have is one horse shelter and a heated automatic water fountain in a wide open space! I have no electricity or lights in the shelter. But I have a plan to get an additional moveable horse shelter so I can fence off a separate area for her for next winter. That way, I could keep non-hay food out for her free choice and she’ll still be right next to the other horses so she’s not alone.

But what do I feed? I can obviously do the alfalfa pellets. I feed them to her dry as she doesn’t like them wet anyway. Knock on wood she eats slowly and has never choked. Dry is going to be best anyway because I can’t put out wet pellets when it’s -20 F outside or they will freeze into a rock.

What else does she need?

I know they make things like Chaffhaye and Standlee chopped hay … but I have no concept of how many pounds a horse needs daily. I’ll have to check what I can get locally. I can put feeders inside the shelter to keep the rain/snow off it.

I should be able to leave large amounts out for her at a time, as she is the type of horse that won’t eat if she isn’t hungry, so I know she’s not going to gorge herself on it. I am hoping that I can just leave bunches out for her because I work long days (usually gone 10-12 hours during the day) so I cannot be there to feed 3xday. I certainly do not want to create a new ulcer problem if she doesn’t have forage in front of her during the day.

[Simkie]

Processed hay products–cubes, pellets, chaff–are fed at the same rate as “real” hay when they’re replacing hay. 1-3% of bodyweight. Whatever poundage of hay she gets now will be the poundage of hay product she’ll need.

Soaking or steaming your hay may be an easier option? Still challenges with that, but something else to consider.

[beau159]

@Simkie

Processed hay products–cubes, pellets, chaff–are fed at the same rate as “real” hay when they’re replacing hay. 1-3% of bodyweight. Whatever poundage of hay she gets now will be the poundage of hay product she’ll need.

Soaking or steaming your hay may be an easier option? Still challenges with that, but something else to consider.

It honestly would probably be easier for me to do some sort of hay product, rather than steaming hay. I know HayGain is on the way out. I could set up or make a homemade steamer in my garage, but when there’s a 40 mph wind in a -30 F blizzard, I can honestly say I would not be a fan of trying to drag a steamed square bale 200 yards out to her horse shelter. (I said what I said. )

I’ve always tried to plan our horse care to be as self-reliant as possible with as little “work” to do as possible. Hence why I normally feed a round bale with a net in the winter and they graze on pasture in the summer. I don’t want to spend my spare time doing chores when I could be riding instead! But of course, enter high maintenance horse…

So at least if I can figure out what product is going to be the best for her, I can try to come up with something that is the least amount of work possible that is still going to give her what she needs.

Hubby is non-horsey and I do unfortunately have to travel for work about 3 times a year, so it needs to be as easy as possible because he is very non-horsey (but supportive ). I have trained him to at least be able to change out the round bale on his own, so there’s that.

[Simkie]

In that case, chaff is probably easiest. It doesn’t need soaking. It can just be fed.

But it’s also really costly. You’re looking at a bag of that Standlee chopped hay you linked every day.

[LilDunFilly]

Unfortunately, I don’t think there is a forage replacer that is as easy to feed as a round-bale, especially for winter feeding.

I’ve cared for horses who had to be off hay all together (no teeth) and we replaced it pound-for-pound with wet pellets or cubes. The cubes provided were a PITA because they were rock-hard and often didn’t completely soften without a ton of water (by which point they fermented from the heat). The only softer cubes I’ve dealt with had beet-pulp mixed in and those I’d be willing to feed dry. Same with most hay pellets.

Some considerations for feeding cubes/pellets is they don’t take as long to eat and soaked-food shouldn’t just sit out all day. We couldn’t free-feed any of it, so those horses had to be fed multiple times a day. Most horses will also only eat a certain amount of it in any one sitting (~5-8 lb was our range before horses would tap out for their meal).

If you want to make chopped hay, that is something that can be done “at home”. There are small residental mulchers that you can buy which will chop the hay up. It’s more work than buying it pre-chopped, but a lot less expensive. Chopped hay is something you could leave out, so long as there isn’t a bunch of wind to blow it away.

[rogueknits]

Yeah…this is going to be tough for you. My horse is currently off hay due to Fecal Water Syndrome. He eats a combination of soaked cubes/pellets and Triple Crown Safestarch (an enriched chopped hay). Everything is divided into 4 meals–breakfast, lunch, dinner and night check so that he doesn’t go too long without forage.

I would be very reluctant to feed pellets/cubes as the primary source of forage without soaking them. Even discounting the risk of choke, you’d be increasing your colic risk because horses will eat them quickly and they will expand in the gut. You need that extra water in there to bulk them up so the horse feels satiated at the right time. I also absolutely wouldn’t feed them “free choice.” The chopped hay you could probably get away with feeding free choice (though recognize it takes less effort to chew it, so the horse will very likely eat more of it than they would long stem hay). But as others have said, it’s pricey.

[Simkie]

@LilDunFilly

If you want to make chopped hay, that is something that can be done “at home”.

But the point of chopped hay here isn’t the shorter stem, it’s the lack of dust and mold spores. I didn’t think you’re getting that outside of a bagged chaff hay product.

[fordtraktor]

I am feeding my senior a mix of TC Senior, Unbeetable forage pellets (won’t work for you because flax), and the chopped hay. I make her a 5 gallon bucket of these things mixed together AM and PM, and there is always a little bit of the forage left over.

I share your concerns about soaking (it gets cold here, not quite as cold as you but cold), and have not had problems feeding unsoaked alf pellets and these. I try to choose a brand with small, softer pellets. Standlee’s are too hard! I can’t help you with brands because I use a local one.

[beau159]

@Simkie

But it’s also really costly. You’re looking at a bag of that Standlee chopped hay you linked every day.

Oh, I realize it’s not going to be cheap. That doesn’t matter. I’ve “loosely” had her for sale for a while, was hoping to find someone that has a better home setup than me for what she needs, but I like her so darn much and she’s such a good horse that I really don’t want to, so I am hoping I can figure something out that will work. I’ve got all summer to figure it out.

@LilDunFilly

Some considerations for feeding cubes/pellets is they don’t take as long to eat and soaked-food shouldn’t just sit out all day. We couldn’t free-feed any of it, so those horses had to be fed multiple times a day. Most horses will also only eat a certain amount of it in any one sitting (~5-8 lb was our range before horses would tap out for their meal).

I am hoping that I would just be able to have a large amount of pellets set out for her, and then she could eat as she pleases. Or, my other idea (I think I saw on social media) would be to jimmy-rig an automatic deer feeder or something with a timer on it that doesn’t require electricity, that could “drop” food several times a day for her.

@LilDunFilly

If you want to make chopped hay, that is something that can be done “at home”. There are small residental mulchers that you can buy which will chop the hay up. It’s more work than buying it pre-chopped, but a lot less expensive. Chopped hay is something you could leave out, so long as there isn’t a bunch of wind to blow it away.

Well, the whole point of getting rid of hay, is getting rid of the dust/allergens that come with it. I would far better trust a manufactured bagged hay. If I would chop my own, it would defeat the purpose of getting rid of the dust allergens.

Of course, her outdoor pen isn’t exactly going to be dust free either. Impossible to eliminate it all, but at least I can eliminate something.

@rogueknits

I would be very reluctant to feed pellets/cubes as the primary source of forage without soaking them. Even discounting the risk of choke, you’d be increasing your colic risk because horses will eat them quickly and they will expand in the gut. You need that extra water in there to bulk them up so the horse feels satiated at the right time. I also absolutely wouldn’t feed them “free choice.”

Makes sense. My other horses I wouldn’t trust leaving free choice pellets out but with her, I would. If she’s full or she is “done” she stops eating. I guess it’s a “know your horse” sort of thing.

@fordtraktor

I share your concerns about soaking (it gets cold here, not quite as cold as you but cold), and have not had problems feeding unsoaked alf pellets and these. I try to choose a brand with small, softer pellets. Standlee’s are too hard! I can’t help you with brands because I use a local one.

I only buy the Standlee brand of alfalfa pellets for her, just because I trust the brand. I know there’s a gal near me who gets some bulk alfalfa pellets from another good source. I’ll have to ask around what I can get in bulk local. We do have a feed store in town, which I’ve never needed to use because I don’t normally go through tons of grain.

[Simkie]

@beau159

Oh, I realize it’s not going to be cheap. That doesn’t matter.

In that case, hit up your local feed store and see if you can get a pallet price on the chaff stuff. Chewy’s is rolling shipping into their product price, so your local price should be better. Buying by the pallet (if you can store it?) may bring it down a bit more. You’re probably still looking at north of $1k/ton, which is pretty crazy, but if you love the horse, you love the horse!

[2tempe]

Not sure I have much info , but would suggest you take the next couple months to find an equine nutritionist that you can meet with telephonically. I consulted with one years ago for something - cant remember now but it was helpful. Pick their brain and get some idea what options you may have. For example - I have heard, but no first hand knowledge - that some senior feeds can replace hay. Also a weird thought: Would a grazing muzzle help the horse eat slow enough that some hay could be fed?

[atr]

I know round bales can be dusty and things aren’t improved by the horse actually sticking its nose into them as they tend to. Could you try working with smaller clean bales and shaking the hay out before you feed it? It might not be perfectly ideal but it might be better than the situation you have currently.

[Training_Cupid]

We have a local milling company that produces a “complete pellet” that can replace hay and they sell it by the barrel which is cheaper by volume than the bags. So if you haven’t already, check if there is anything somewhat local to you that sells bulk.

[IPEsq]

Have you ever tried hay other than a round bale? As someone else mentioned, I might try dealing with small squares first. Will be more of a pain than what you have been doing but probably less of a pain and less expensive than bagged forage. Sure, steaming small squares would be best, but perhaps just avoiding having her burrow into a round bale would be a large step in the right direction?

[Needanothercupofcoffee]

I have a horse with IAD (inflammatory airway disease) and is also hind gut-sensitive to long stem hay. I feed her triple crown safestarch which is a good chopped forage however it is dusty fed dry so I have to wet it. I find the triple crown grass forage is less dusty (has glycerin or some additive that I don’t see in the safestarch), but mostly feed the safestarch for metabolic value

[Weezer]

If you’re feeding pellets or cubes, I wonder if you could put out a few of those treat balls for her to roll around? That would create a slow feed type situation. My only concern in that situation would be sand colic if the footing is sandy.

[LCDR]

I fed mine with seasonal respiratory allergies and documented allergies to all hay except alfalfa with baled alfalfa and a ration balancer. I live where alfalfa is not readily available, so I spend the money on Standlee and Ametza compressed alfalfa bales. Real bales, not chopped, not pellets, not cubes.

I bought a hay scale and a horse scale and I feed by weight, amount depending upon whether the pasture grass is growing, so sometimes that means grass 24/7 along with a couple of pounds of alfalfa daily, up to 20 or so pounds of alfalfa daily if the pasture forage is really poor.

Compressed Standlee alfalfa is available at Tractor Supply, with a 5 percent discount if you buy a shipping pallet at one time, which is 20 bales. I use my neighbors club membership to have free same day home delivery, so I wait until TSC has at least 20 bales in stock to order. If you special order ship-to-store rather than buying from TSC store stock, the ship to store fee will just about double the cost. Standlee is grown in Idaho.

Compressed Ametza bales are available from Chewy, with free delivery. It comes on a regular Fedex delivery truck and my driver unloads it directly into the back of my UTV so I only have to handle it once. Ametza is grown in California.

Of the two, Standlee is about $5.00 less per bale than Ametza. Bales do vary but my experience is that Ametza bales usually weigh about 10 pounds more than Standlee bales.

The decision about whether to spend $25-30 per compressed bale is yours to make.

[CHT]

Square hay fed in a small hole hay net might keep the dust out of your horse’s nose, particularly if you have a way to put the hay net at ground level/low.

Find as “clean” of hay as possible, such as from source that sells for hay cubes or export.

[beau159]

@2tempe

For example - I have heard, but no first hand knowledge - that some senior feeds can replace hay.

The majority of feeds available have soy in them, which I cannot feed her.

@2tempe

Also a weird thought: Would a grazing muzzle help the horse eat slow enough that some hay could be fed?

I do NOT need to slow down her eating. She is not an easy keeper and doesn’t need to be restricted.

Vet suggested to eliminate hay in order to eliminate dust/mold that she is likely breathing in while eating it. Putting a grazing muzzle on her would not help with that.

@atr

I know round bales can be dusty and things aren’t improved by the horse actually sticking its nose into them as they tend to. Could you try working with smaller clean bales and shaking the hay out before you feed it? It might not be perfectly ideal but it might be better than the situation you have currently.

My horses don’t stick their heads in the round bale anyway because I always feed it with a net (HayChix net with the livestock holes). They can’t burrow their face in it. However, the nature of round bales is that they are just going to be more prone to more dust / mold spores as they do sit out in the elements. Mine are net wrapped which helped a lot, but does not eliminate it.

Yes, I did consider only feeding her square bales in a separate area. However, I’d like to consult further on that with my vet because square bales are still going to carry some dust/mold spores too; just not as much. (Shaking them off doesn’t “shake it off”.) If she still thinks hay-free is the best way, well, than that might be what we try.

@IPEsq

Have you ever tried hay other than a round bale? As someone else mentioned, I might try dealing with small squares first. Will be more of a pain than what you have been doing but probably less of a pain and less expensive than bagged forage. Sure, steaming small squares would be best, but perhaps just avoiding having her burrow into a round bale would be a large step in the right direction?

copy/paste from above poster response

My horses don’t stick their heads in the round bale anyway because I always feed it with a net (HayChix net with the livestock holes). They can’t burrow their face in it. However, the nature of round bales is that they are just going to be more prone to more dust / mold spores as they do sit out in the elements. Mine are net wrapped which helped a lot, but does not eliminate it.

Yes, I did consider only feeding her square bales in a separate area. However, I’d like to consult further on that with my vet because square bales are still going to carry some dust/mold spores too; just not as much. If she still thinks hay-free is the best way, well, than that might be what we try.

@Weezer

If you’re feeding pellets or cubes, I wonder if you could put out a few of those treat balls for her to roll around? That would create a slow feed type situation. My only concern in that situation would be sand colic if the footing is sandy.

My ground is not sandy. Clay-type dirt.

Treat ball might not work if we get a foot of snow. Don’t want to lose it…

[thereadinghorse]

Interesting. I can‘t suggest anything to replace the hay. It’s just an interesting read. I have never come across the idea to not feed hay anymore. We do have heaps of horses with breathing issues. But our general suggestions here are:

• watered or steamed hay or dry, good quality haylage
• buy an inhaler and inhale every day
• let horse move after inhaling
• inhaling medication if necessary (cortisone, ambroxol)
• feed something from the ground (out of a bowl) after inhaling so mucus can come out
• get rid of other dust sources such as dusty bedding etc.
• determine if horse has certain allergies and try to minimize the allergens
• if acute give medications such as expectorants, bronchodilators