@julia.eq.h, you have the right idea. You’ve got some great advice here from the forum! I work in the career center at a university and am an engineer myself. Electrical engineering is one of the few great BS degrees. Lots of demand from employers and plenty of long-range career opportunity. Balancing making $ and having time is always going to be a question, but get yourself set with a career that supports this hobby. I went into engineering so that I could afford my horse ;). PM me if you want more detailed career advice.
BTW, the poster(s) who said not to listen to advisors and college enrollment personnel are pretty much spot on. Most college advisors have never worked in the field that they advise in and don’t have any contact with employers. The enrollment guidance is based on stuff on government websites from years ago.
You can’t select a career based 100% on $, BUT you can narrow things down a lot using wages as guidance, and plenty of people do. I know lots of engineers who selected that field based on determining “what is the highest paid 4 year degree” and going from there.
There are other fields with a lot of demand now: accounting (CPAs), pharmacy, and a few others, but I don’t specialize in those areas and so am not going to give advice about those as options.
Best of luck to you!
I showed twice a month in the junior jumpers from age 16-18 and never paid a penny. It cost my parents nothing, I rode mostly sale horses but some that belonged to other clients, 4-10 a day. I groomed, I lunged, I cleaned things and I took 100,000 client horses around the warm up rounds in the morning give or take in that period. I took some in the hunters if needed, taking a junior horse around the Opens for practice etc. I rode 7 days a week at home and rode the dressage horses too - if one would sell better as a Young Riders dressage horse I could do that and do the video and show the horse for them. I braided, I clipped, I mucked stalls… I had money in the bank after a show.
This is covered upthread
while all of these are good careers NONE of them get you showing a WEF for weeks on end with one, let alone multiple 6 figure horses.
CPA, turned Investment Banker, turned Private Equity, turned AI and ML developer/strategist in Big Tech. I have a nice lifestyle in a HCOL city with a 7 figure home (I sit between the top 1% and top 2% of national income for my household) - but I can barely take 2 weeks off work a year (outside of the holiday season like Christmas / NYE week) because I am fundamentally needed to work at my job - they’re not paying me what they’re paying me to… NOT WORK.
The prospect of a mid-high 5’s horse in full training with a competitive, top trainer at a facility in my HCOL area makes me stomach drop if I want to fully gut and remodel my 1976 kitchen sometime in the next 4 years, LOL.
And we are childfree, with kids and their expenses… just almost impossible if you’re not a double digit millions revenue per year business owner / or coming to the table with some form of generational wealth.
We can enjoy horses at a wide breadth of incomes and lifestyles - but OP’s original question is not feasible for 99.96% of people.
I want to be an investment banker! How did you go on that path to being an investment banker and earning 7 figures?
I am trying to get some internships at banks in Geneva (I have a family there in banking), and I am taking courses on micro economics. My mom is an economist, so I am learning from her and learning about investing.
I’m really passionate about this, so I hope I can be successful one day!
You start in a lower position and work your way up. Having grown up around Econ/Finance and possibly with family contacts in the industry? Might be a goodplan…getting started sometimes it is who you know….but it will be a long road to a 7 figure income.
You do not earn 7 figs as an IB – not unless you make MD/ etc. and you work 90 hour weeks nearly constantly. I was in the field in my 20s, I did not ride, and the most anyone under 45/50 ever made was about 700k but they got exceedingly lucky working on a HUGE several billion dollar international deal.
The same person got divorced, lost custody/visitation of their kids and knocked up an escort in the 18 months that deal occurred. He also went to rehab but still does the DOC that he went to rehab for. Said person DOES own 3 homes in cool locations like NYC, Napa, and somewhere else… but lost 1 in the divorce and rents out the other.
I used my income saved from my slightly less than a decade in Transaction Advisory > IB > PE to put 40% down on a 7 figure home, buy a high 5 figures vehicle in cash & all the general investments/ proper 401k savings, paying for my own destination elopement trip for 5 family members, leasing horses towards the end of my PE career (low-mid 5 figure leases in full training), saving money for home remodels (several hundred thousands worth).
For context I left right around VP level at 30 and would have had another 15 year grind to MD. I never made 7 figs in a year - some years were good with bonuses equaling 150%+ of my base, some years I worked deals that died and made half of what I made the year prior. The variable compensation is EXTREMELY variable. Also US based IBs make more - far more. Do you have US citizenship - if so you’ll make far more money than non-US citizens.
As a woman - you often don’t last long enough to make it to MD in IB - especially not if you ever marry or even CONSIDER a child. The most recent stat is 1 in 20 MDs are female and even less have spouses or children, so 1-5% of you ever making it that far.
ALSO, expect hazing, sexual harassment, heavy drinking / drug culture - there has been a major uptick in IB deaths in the last years - which is extreme working conditions and sleep deprivation mixed often with extreme pressure to do stimulants – like no joke, your boss will imply that you to snort lines with them or you’ll get kicked off the deal for “scheduling preferences” or “underperformance”. Until the industry unionizes (unlikely) - this culture will continue.
I am very lucky that I functioned well on stimulants and often used it to counteract the effects of alcohol - I also got very good at dumping drinks into potted plants and befriending (lets be real here: sleeping with) bartenders who would pretend to pour me liquor in front of my higher ups, but really make me a soda water. I also don’t have an addictive personality and walked away from a several gram a week habit and never think about it 6 years later. I don’t drink or do anything anymore and CBD puts me right to sleep. And for those who don’t think c*caine, etc. is that common, it is. You cannot attend any event or bar in NYC, LA, Miami without running into it, maybe slightly less now with fentanyl so prevalent, but in 2016… most people in certain income brackets participated casually.
I am not saying don’t try, but don’t expect to ride during this time. By age 45/50 you can make an exit and then pursue whatever you want. Which for riding horses - is fine - so many older folks ride at super competitive levels!
just google IB deaths theres articles upon articles from the 2000s through earlier this year with the former Green Beret who died in the spring (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/bank-america-investment-banker-dies-2024-05-07/)
To build on this, read Bully Market by Jaime Fiore Higgins. She was the first female MD at Goldman Sachs. The mental and physical toll that life takes is unreal.
I work in ultra high net worth finance on the fiduciary side. At 27, I’m in the upper 5-figures which affords me lessons and a few shows a year thanks to a wonderful trainer who finds me horses who need rides. I had to take a break for a grand total of 2 years between college and getting to a point where I could start taking lessons again. It felt like forever, but in hindsight, it was a drop in the bucket and now I’m financially secure and able to work towards the life I want.
Wow! Thank you for such an in-depth explanation! This is amazing.
I am à US citizen, but my family is European. My family in Switzerland is a banking family, so I was thinking I could get some internships with the Swiss bank my family works for. I’m not totally sure how to show I’m a good candidate other than my gpa and other standardized tests, though.
Interview practice - you gotta have the vibe.,
make it clear you’re extremely intense, down for ANYTHING, aggressive, ready to see the grey areas to exploit, stop at nothing mentality, work prioritized over everything else, getting the job done is more important than family, fun, & faith (joke in the biz - give up the 3 F’s and get FU moneyyyy, but true – it was a game to haze people into leaving any religious belief especially those who were Mormon).
I do offer consulting / interview practice for these types of interviews. I do require you have an upcoming interview to book my time & I require deposits. DM me if you’re going to go through interview season (which is happening right now - always Fall - when’s your interview?!)
Wait - Correct me if I am wrong. I think from other posts you’ve made… that you’re still a minor / cannot yet drive…
Get into top feeder IB uni first, rock your first 3 years, pursue competitive internship - I offer those services for prep, rock the internship and get offer. There is really one 1 pipeline into IB from undergrad and it is exceedingly formulaic.
Euro banks don’t pay shit though. Your family members might be an in, but to what point… in your Original Post you mentioned they can’t afford Bay Area leases / horse ownership expenses…- doesn’t seem worth it?
This sounds right out of Industry!
If we had the money for a $3k/month lease, the only debt we’d have left inside a year would be our mortgage. The last year has thrown us some curveballs, and the dream of even getting our kid into a basic lesson program is still that, a dream.
I’ve never been more grateful my late TB passed when he did, and the likelihood of ever getting another horse fades every year it feels like.
Show is rather good - pretty accurate while still being “fanciful” and full of drama!
I lasted as long as I did because I am neurodivegent to a point of having minor aspects of psychopathy (CPTSD from a dark childhood/family dynamic and some minor from of ASD) - my ends justify my means 99% of the time. I gave it up when the means didn’t feel worth it anymore and I had enough to do “mostly” what I wanted. I also spent about $150,000+ in therapy / psychological help in that decade and eventually I “evolved”.
Big Tech has some toxic personalities, but it is nothing compared to IB/PE - do I wish I had more $$ sure, but I wish I was generationally wealthy - for working for my money - I’m happy - my lifestyle is eons healthier now.
Yes! Thank you for the advice! I am a minor working on my license so I’m working on college stuff right now. Definitely want to get into a good university to bolster my chances at getting a job easily out of college.
Definitely see how an interview is very important, I do have to work on those skills because I seem quiet in interviews, when in reality I’m extremely extroverted.
My extended family in Switzerland definitely has money for any horse they want. I don’t want to go into too much detail but they all work in well paying positions (7 figs). My parents and I are in the Bay Area, but we go to Switzerland a lot because my family is super close. My mom wants me to intern either with her or with family in Switzerland for the summer.
Totally suggest going to Uni in Switzerland then. Swiss banks will not prefer an American educated analyst.
Perhaps you can ask your parents to let you move back to Switzerland to pursue uni and horses with your extended family that can help finance you!
Honestly - it would be best if you could finish hs at boarding school in Switzerland. The pipeline to ETH Zurich or St Gallen is best from a Swiss boarding secondary school. See if you can live with your banking family and enroll before you graduate HS so your diploma is not from an American secondary school!!
We did not have H/Js but when we showed a lot the horses were owned by my business used in advertising to promote the business which had a division aimed at farm/ranch interests.
These horses were business assets which were depreciable on a seven year life. The business kept the horses at the farm we owned which was a separate corporation,
This farm leased the barns and grounds from us personally. The lease payments were not subject to social security taxes or Medicare taxes. All farm improvements were subject to a standard deprecation schedule.
The business that was the owner of horses paid the farm to board their horses, the farm’s income was always in excess of expenses as the farm could back charge the horses’ owner for extras.
All corporations were separate, each with its own accounts and run as an independent operation. All paid their taxes none were ever audited.
The primary business was a successful enterprise that was doing several millions dollars of work annually
This really needs to be underlined. And i-banking is typically less variable comp-wise than being a fund manager in equities or PE. My base salary last year was only 10% of my total compensation. The other 90% comes in a single day after my review. My bonus can vary 30-40% up or down within a year based on my performance.
It is stressful to have so little certainty what your bonus will be. Every day I get a report card when the market closes of how smart or dumb I am. Last year my outperformance got cut in half just in the month of December. I spent the entire year thinking I was in great shape and it was undone in 24 trading days. I still ended up but not heroically.
Having that much variability in compensation every year means you have to plan very conservatively. Which is extra hard with horses right and their love affair with vet bills?
So actually if you’re going into this type of field, you need to save aggressively in the beginning and not buy the horse, not take the trip until you have built up a cushion. I have a crazy amount I keep in cash for someone who manages money for a living, but I feel compelled bc of the variability…bc I have horses who want to be sure my vet can pay to put her kid through college.
Also literally everything @mika0116 said about IB in general was exactly my experience as well, especially the drug use. The banks talk a big game about having better quality of life but that is absolute balderdash. The one nice thing about IB is it can be a very good springboard to other careers even outside of finance. But my god, you will pay dearly for that. In your shoes, I would take up the offer of Mika’s services bc some of it is nuanced and a lot is stacked against you as a woman.
OP, you do not need to make 7 figures to successfully show horses. Yes, horse shows are expensive in the U.S. but you have options. For example, if living in Europe when you are an adult is an option for you, horse showing is much less expensive in Europe, for a number of reasons, including a more DYI approach (fewer trainers and grooms and/or grooming for oneself and not having a trainer with you); shipping in for the day instead of stabling overnight, and generally traveling less far for shows. So, although you may potentially make less in your career in Europe, your take home income may go farther regarding horse shows. Also, you can take that more DYI approach in the U.S. as well (even if it is uncommon, provided that you work hard to develop the horsemanship skills and knowledge to be able to do so). As an (outside of the U.S.) example, check out Holly Lenahan’s you tube. She shows Grand Prix without a trainer present at the shows holding her hand. So it is possible to do that (anywhere), even if it is very uncommon here.
Another consideration: I caution against taking time away from horses to build your career and then becoming a re-rider. I base this observation on the many threads on CoTH about the struggles of being a re-rider. Riding is an athletic pursuit and muscle memory, balance, and core strength are essential. If you must stop riding for any length of time, it will pay off to stay as fit as you can. I suggest buying a fake horse like the ones jockeys practice with when they are rehabbing an injury and can’t ride. (I don’t have one myself but I would like to get one). But it still isn’t the same as continuing to ride as much as practicable while you build your career.
I would find it no fun to work an 80-hour/week job to buy a fancy show horse and then not be able to ride it myself successfully because I lost my skillset in the process. Riding is a perishable skill: you must ride to maintain/grow your skills.
Personally, I worked as hard as possible to develop riding and teaching skills while I was a junior so that I could be paid to ride and teach during university. To go this route, it was not possible to be on the school’s riding team (because I was not an amateur and also not enough time in the day to do both) but that did not bother me.
I now have a very busy non-horse related career. I never took a break from riding and I am glad that I did not. For me, living in a rural area near my horses for less pay is more appealing than living in a city earning more and never/rarely riding. For me, riding my own horses is more important/valuable than earning more so that I could pay someone else to ride them. Each horse person must navigate these choices themselves of course.
Those riders are typically coming back after 15+ years and have gotten older, had kids, etc in the meantime. There’s a huge difference between that and taking a few years off in your early twenties while you get your career going. I took almost 5 years off and didn’t have any issues coming back, and the benefits to my career from having those years off were important. I was able to pick up extra hours, travel on short notice, and generally pay my dues so that now I can command a higher salary and the flexibility to ride pretty much whenever I want. I don’t even consider myself a “re-rider” because my break was such a non-issue for me.
An alternative to the jockeys’ fake horse (I wish I could afford one) is the Home Horse (Home Horse. This has helped me a lot in keeping my muscles going when I do not get to ride a horse, and I am pretty sure it is thousands of dollars less than the Equicizer which the jockeys use.
The Home Horse helps me work on my faulty balance and works my core muscles too.
What is the price of one (Home Horse)?
