How do people afford to consistently show multiple horses?

[julia.eq.h]

I have another question- how do the well known horse families (like the sweetnams, maddens, cawleys, etc) afford the horse world?

For example, Olivia Sweetnam (amazing and talented rider no doubt) has probably 5 horses at a high level, and she shows probably every weekend. How do families afford this? Because I know that her parents are trainers but there is no way that a trainer could afford this level of showing (probably millions per year).

Are they sponsored and are able to use others horses? Does the training and winning money make them able to afford showing? Or do they come from extreme wealth already?

Sorry for the weird wording, I don’t know if it makes sense!

[wanderlust]

@julia.eq.h

For example, Olivia Sweetnam (amazing and talented rider no doubt) has probably 5 horses at a high level, and she shows probably every weekend. How do families afford this? Because I know that her parents are trainers but there is no way that a trainer could afford this level of showing (probably millions per year).

Well a solid half of my show bill is always trainer fees/groom splits/etc. So without that, the cost comes down a ton. And then usually the top folks afford it through buying and selling high end horses at volume. Those good-riding kids-of-trainers are frequently paid to ride the string of junior hunters they are sitting on.

Some of the trainers also run complimentary businesses - things like horseflight, arena installation, etc.

[findeight]

Well…try to put this gently…it’s their business and they do not need to publicly share their financial details. Best not to gossip or speculate about others on here. For one thing, it gets back to them plus it’s just not nice.

[wanderlust]

I don’t think she’s asking for secrets or gossip, is just curious how it works. That’s not an unfair or salacious question.

[julia.eq.h]

I’m definitely not gossiping, I’m just curious to how they able to run a business to afford these things. I was wondering if they get sponsored or if people pay them to show their horses, or if they buy and sell horses.
Nothing malicious about that

[julia.eq.h]

Ooh that is interesting, I didn’t know people get payed to ride others horses. It makes sense though, probably a good way for someone’s horse to be showed and get more exposure!

[findeight]

No sponsors, deep pocketed owners who pay well to have their horses ridden, trained, bought and sold (commisions like a real estate agent). But, also, generational wealth as discussed upthread, some of those folks are from well known, successful families who passed it down to their children and grandchildren,

[vxf111]

When you see a good riding junior who is the kid of a trainer (other than those who have other sources of money) showing a bunch of nice horses, 9/10 the junior does not own them and they are not her personal horses. They are sale horses and it’s part of her job, literally her job, even as a kid, is to put miles on those horses and increase their value. Everything the junior sits on is for sale or could be for sale, and she’s not showing for her own personal satisfaction. Maybe she gets a horse eventually with some vetting issue that makes it hard to sell or some difficult quirk-- but most of them time what you see with rose colored glasses is this junior working what equates to a full time job.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

It’s also why some of the best young riders in the sport do so through this path–they ride a wide variety of horses, learn how to teach horses things rather than just sit and look pretty, but the horses are still talented, and relatively sane and sound. (In other words, unlike a wealthy kid whose non-horsey parents can say, rent one of those “super-made eq pro” horses for the finals, or a talented but poor kid working at a barn who truly gets put on everything to leg them up, including horses with really bad habits that results in a defensive seat).

[Annie10]

Plus those showing expenses are a tax write off for the family training business, as opposed to those of us for whom it’s a hobby and we just eat it

[WavyRider]

Personal gripe: people turning up their noses at less expensive boots that fit off the rack, break in in days, and last years. You don’t have to buy custom!!

[findeight]

But tax write offs only allow you shelter money you already had and spent. They do not create income, You have to spend the money first then claim it to reduce tax liabilities…

[Annie10]

Of course. However, it’s definitely helpful to the professional trainers/ horseshowing that we are discussing.

[findeight]

I think a good number of the more financially successful trainers got there by being GOOD. Producing winning horses/riders consistently, keeping clients happy and running like a business.

[dags]

@findeight

But tax write offs only allow you shelter money you already had and spent. They do not create income, You have to spend the money first then claim it to reduce tax liabilities…

Yeah, but when you’re selling a dozen+ 6 figure horses a year with 20%+ commission on each, those tax write-offs come in real handy.

[Scribbler]

Well, with the current model of h/j there has to be trainers involved in showing and competing at the top, meaning at the same shows their clients are showing. The trainers make these horses, sell these horses at a huge profit to their clients, continue training those horses after selling, show them in Open to warm them up for ammie weekend classes, and continue to “add value” to the horse. You don’t get this wrap around support from a coach who is riding below your level.

Here are things the client pays but the trainer doesn’t.

Training and lesson fees at home and at shows.
Hotel and grooming fees at shows.
Board: the trainers horses keep is at cost, feed plus the cost of a dry stall, or if it’s a clients horse the client pays full board.
Sometimes the horses owner is paying show fees even if they aren’t riding in that show.
The trainer is buying prospects and making them into high dollar horses. The trainer is not buying six figure horses. The trainer is making six figure horses.
Some high end saddle companies have been known to give the trainer a new saddle for every so many saddles they get their clients to buy.

Taking prospects to shows is a necessary part of the business model of creating a high dollar horse that a wealthy amateur will buy (and pay commission to their own trainer for finding the deal).

I assume selling a horse that was bought for $20k and sells in two years for $200k means you declare it under capital gains, in which case you deduct all your expenses on the tax form. That’s also a boost.

But basically I think the model of any trainer is to get the maintenance costs of their own horses as low as possible and to run a boarding barn where the income ends up covering their horses (sales and training horses pay board). They do have to pay entries fees at shows but their hotel is covered by other clients. Etc.

The ammie rider in this model pays for wrap around support at all.stsges so they can show. Maybe some high level executives can take a Zoom call.from the hotel room once in a blue moon but they are not going to be at the barn every day doing chores, schooling and grooming like a person in self board or with horses at home.

[Tini_Sea_Soldier1]

Precisely… it’s not a hobby or a sport for them, those kids are tied into the family business. When promoting new imports or consignments as jr/am friendly, they’re the ones putting the records on the horse. They might have a few hand-selected horses of their own, but the string of horses usually includes quite a few that are intended as sale prospects. They can get away with not being spotlighted as pros because they are owned or represented by the parents.

[findeight]

Knew quite a few BNT offspring…vast majority rode all the way through the Medals without ever owning a personal horse. At best they were owned by the business with the understanding they could be sold. And they were.

[mika0116]

The world was very different back then (cost of living compared to income for those who support the horse industry like grooms (Joe Madden) etc. was a VERY different ratio). You weren’t particularly comfortable as a full time BN groom - but you could TOTALLY survive and possibly afford property and maybe a not super expensive personal horse. Reputations and client lists that are so valuable now were built up over generations of good, successful outcomes.

Beezie comes from a horse family - her parents Kathy and Joe were top hunter trainers with client lists so impressive that Beezie was pretty much expected to be just as great. Additionally, the prioritization of horses as a lifestyle as well as sales/training client lists and “proprietary” training perspectives are from previous generations.

By today’s standards you could also call Beezie’s parents “wealthy” from a horse ownership and training perspective - and they made their big money well before the world got prohibitively expensive. Horse world generally speaking is once you’re IN from a generational perspective, it’s kinda just about maintaining that momentum and wealth.

[GraceLikeRain]

Another element for some big names is that they are on family farms that are paid off or housed at farms owned by a top client. Not having a mortgage on a $$$ farm but being able to attract the caliber of client that wants to train with a top name at a $$$ farm is huge.

That’s also often true with the non pros with generational wealth. I’ve lost count of the “day in a life” on COTH where they either have a string of upcoming young imports at a parents barn or have a way to rehab and retire to a family facility. They still need hundreds of thousands for the lifestyle annually but having a place to keep 4-8 horses in between circuits helps a lot.

Even on a smaller level a lot of the local bigger names I know have a home they built on a family farm and the past generation put in the infrastructure. The next generation may be tasked with the GGT footing and treadmill but they did foot the bill for the 20 stall farm or miles of fencing.