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How do you afford it?

Forgive me for going full armchair economist on you. You may want me to change my nickname here to RadicalLeftistHorseHag after you read my response.

I see your solution as an individual fix to historically systemic/structural problems that have altered the US horse landscape radically.

Horse ownership through the last 75-ish years makes a fairly good economic indicator, well, accurate, not necessarily good for horses or those of us obsessed with them.

Horses used to be a middle-class possibility, even likelihood, in most parts of this comparatively rural nation. (See Denny Emerson’s frequent FB reminiscences.) In my vaguely ranch-y Southern California childhood home, children in the 1960s had backyard horses the way today’s have skateboards and bicycles. My dad was a public school teacher. When we moved to Maine in 1972, we sold a 10-acre parcel for $30-ish thousand. It has since been carved into five parcels and our original home w/ teeny guest house my parents built for my grandmother is valued at $1.8m today, according to Zillow. That’s a 6000 percent increase in value, not even considering the other 8-ish acres. For comparison, since 1978 US CEO pay has increased by 940 percent, while typical worker wages have risen 12 percent.

Covenants protecting riding trails – see children’s activities above – have fallen by the wayside and public monies that once ensured the Los Padres National Forest was fully horse accessible has shrunk to shadows of themselves and so have the trails.

Your solution is neither attainable for most people nor sustainable – no shade to you, seriously. (I rent my little horse farm in Maine so I can live in a two-room ranger’s cabin in my CA hometown, board my horse a few miles away and ride nearly every single day, a near impossibility in Maine.)
Still, for the system to have ejected wage workers from these inter-species traditions that have been with us arguably for 45,000 years is simply tragic.

Right now we depend on philanthropy for the bulk of top-level riding opportunities. Philanthropy is by definition anti-democratic. Without the creation of systemic, structural solutions for health care, housing, and a revival of the middle class, the horse world will become ever more feudal. And that path seems a betrayal to too many of our fellow humans and equids in the wealthiest nation on earth.

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Thank you for the thought-provoking questions. As I said in a full-on rant below, you’re not the only one. Recent hay prices alone have me losing lots of sleep.
These trends represent systemic local and national challenges, and, to paraphrase Ben Franklin unless we hang together to find solutions, we will certainly hang alone.

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Just want to chime in because I agree with everything you are saying 100%. The deleterious economic spiral we find ourselves in now (which started decades ago, but has been mounting over time) has me seriously concerned for the future.

Barns are closing, and for good reason. With nowhere to board, a lot of people won’t be able to have horses. The people who can afford AND want to have them at home, with all the limitations and work that that entails, are not the majority of the horsey population.

I don’t really see an answer. The prices of land becomes the price of horses, and that isn’t going down any time soon. If it does, it’ll be on the back of a major economic depression, so nobody will have the income to support a spendy hobby like horses anyway.

Like I said, it frightens me considerably. I have finally gotten my breeding program on its feet, but I’m questioning whether it’s ethical to be producing more horses now when the resources to give them good lives are drying up around us.

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Thanks for the atta-girl. Though fretting is my superpower and solutions are thin on the ground, knowing we are in good company helps.

I don’t see “an answer” either. We’ve all been schooled to look for silver bullets where there are none. It’s a feature, not a bug of our current world. Though horse forums have a well-deserved reputation for disagreement, we may want to work harder to see ourselves as a community if we want to stop the encroaching feudalization of our horse-centric lives. Radical income inequality is not good for horses and other living things.

I suggest we stop thinking of horses as a hobby. Even though I’m Centered Riding Level II certified, and have taught riding for years, I have mostly done it as a way to have a horse and connect with other riders. Since I don’t show much, always worked for other trainers, and never had to have my own insurance, I still saw myself mostly as an amateur. That’s changing now. I’m getting enough insurance to cover several weekend CR workshops and a few regular clients. As usual, my timing is not great. Can’t be helped.

Thing is, horses matter to all of us. Pros, ammies, and the non-horse obsessed. During lockdown, I went down a long Horses in Zooarcheology rabbit hole. We have shared our environments with horses through way worse than this New Gilded Age. For perspective, think of the dozen or so really awful ice ages where horses were our best bet for a meal – long before we learned to milk them and the ungulates who relied on horses to break through ice and snow for fodder and, like us, followed them for survival. We’re obsessed for at least 45,000 years’ worth of reasons, not on a whim. Anyone who implies that our connections to horses and to those who share our obsession are frivolous will get a careful argument from me or be ignored. For a glimpse of how some anthropologists think we lived for thousands of years, see the Natasha Fijn’s Khangai Herder series of short docs filmed in Mongolia. Even when we think they’re are a hobby, they are way, way more.

True feudalism ended in part because the Black Death killed so many who had formerly served those higher on the Divine Chain of Being (i.e. royalty) that surviving artisans and laborers could finally command their own prices instead of being traded as part of land and marriage deals. The last Gilded Age fell to early 20th century unions and what we now call community organizing. Our current Gilded Age is not quite feudal and has already seen pressure from the pandemic of the day. We still can run for planning board or school board, serve as election volunteers and vote. We can make substantial changes in the tax code so billionaires pay their fair share. For horse-y mostly women landowners, all these options matter.

I’d like to shore up our democracy by doing the things we do together better, despite mounting pressure to isolate and blame. I don’t mean more philanthropy; I mean working toward functional governance.

Phew. Two rants in one day. I’m going to go ride my horse now. :slight_smile:

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I’m in a similar place in life. Feeling very priced out. I’ve been riding for 26 years and happy to make up my own horse. But even so…it’s hard to find a horse and afford everything that accompanies it, much less showing. I live in the Midwest so probably lower prices, but still. My gelding is semi retired, teaching low level lessons. I’ve been riding any horses offered by folks I know in the recent years just to get time in the saddle. I just miss having my own project. I AM grateful for the opportunities over the years…

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It is definitely going down. Not a lot of people know this but all those cash home purchases that have driven prices so high? A lot of that “cash” is borrowed against equities at 50% or bonds at 95% ratio on a variable rate portfolio loan or portfolio asset loan. The loans mature in 1-3 years, the idea is that you take the cash and buy a house or business or commercial property then refinance to a normal mortgage and pay it back. Saving taxes and saving you from selling your stocks/ bonds. Makes sense, yes? Except that you put up your stocks as collateral, when the price of stocks goes down you must add cash to make the collateral whole, if you cannot the bank takes your portfolio and the remainder from the value of the asset you purchased. If you cannot sell or refinance your purchase when the loan matures, the bank takes it. If you cannot afford the payment when rates go up- you guess- then banks take it.

Today there is almost $1 Trillion in these loans and the stock market started to go down now, 45 days ago. House prices are already stalling, and these people rely on them to stay the same or go up to be able to mortgage the houses they bought for cash. If they cannot they will have to sell or the houses will be seized. In Feb 2022 foreclosures were up 176% over Feb 21.

I live in one of the hottest markets on paper. Everyone is selling, we remember 2008. People have lost confidence in the housing market.

House and land prices will go down (except arable land) the question is more can people afford food, not horse farms.

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I am coming from hunter/jumper land but also in Boston and the answer is… I gave up. I make low six figures and have a very modest mortgage, but having a horse became what I considered financial insanity. I rode competitively from third grade through about age 35 and even did a stint working for the USEF high performance team. When I sold my horse 6 years ago and hung up my boots my costs were - board $1250/month, farrier $250/month, insurance $100/month, supplements/joint injections $100/month, vet $50/month, training $500/month for 4 lessons and 2 rides… $27,000 a year of after-tax income without a buying a single saddle pad, vet emergency or stepping on the trailer for a single outing. This doesn’t include the hour commute each way to the barn and what that costs in vehicle wear and gas (and mental health). The biggest downside of urban horse keeping is even an hour away, at least half the year the horses are going to be on small sacrifice paddocks no matter how nice the barn is.

For SUBSTANTIALLY LESS MONEY (think $900/month including its portion of my mortgage, all utilities and taxes) I have a second home in Vermont that I can actually make money off via short term rentals. I love horses and the instant I win the lottery, I’m back in. At some point I had to take a really hard look at things and accept that I simply cannot afford it. For now, I visit generous friends with horses a few times a year and enjoy whatever they have for me to borrow. If all of their sale horses are young and showing, it might be nothing but spectating. It’s OK. I miss it but it turns out going to bed every night with financial security is a much warmer blanket than I ever knew.

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I sell residential real estate for a living and my lenders tell me this is categorically true. Also anyone who has financed horses through adjustable rate mortgages or home equity loans will be in for a world of hurt as rates continue to climb. The innermost towns (think Cambridge or Brookline) are historically insulated due to demand from jobs at hospitals and universities, but the further you get from the city, the less stable prices are in a down market. It is also true that there has been limited new housing built due to COVID and supply chain issues, and that rents are also climbing exponentially. Nationally, prices will go down - they have to - but it will be ugly to see how it plays out.

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It will be very ugly. You cannot borrow against tax protected investments thankfully or it would be worse. People would lose their retirement funds.

I have heard but not verified that a lot of small businesses got into the rental market secondhand by lending money borrowed against their other assets to investment/ landlord companies. They were told it was a “cannot lose” opportunity to diversfiy and it probably looked so 2 or 3 years ago. Well…

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Hear! Hear! to everything you said except one sentence:
Philanthropy is by definition anti-democratic.

It’s anti-American-democratic.

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I think I understand your point.
Would like to be sure. Can you clarify a tiny bit, please?

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Although I’m super happy for you, I cannot tell you how depressing this is for a hanging-on-by-my-fingernails-public-high-school-teacher semi-retiree.

According to a recent NYer piece, I probably won’t be able to afford my Medicare either, let alone a horse.
My TB is 15 and has never worn a shoe. His housing switched from the side of a canyon to a cushy pen at a dressage barn and he got a little ouchy after the one rain we had.

It occurred to me that I am not able to support a horse who needs shoes in California. Considering a half lease if he keeps this up.

All I can say is there is something wrong with this picture: student debt practically killing our young people and inadequate retirement squeezing some of us oldies out of the things that makes us us.

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I will try. :slight_smile:

Another thing you said –Without the creation of systemic, structural solutions for health care, housing, and a revival of the middle class, the horse world will become ever more feudal.
IMO these solutions are features of democracy, and the health care one is one of the most vital (and I use that word deliberately).

I think America needs more social democracy than it has. I think some other developed countries do it better than we do.

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I grew up in Atlanta and had several schoolmates who had horses in their backyards. Some hacked them to the local shows. This was in the 1950s-60s.

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I really appreciate you weighing in. Honestly, I think I’m headed the same direction as much as it breaks my heart to admit it. I am half-leasing and have one on retirement board…we make good money in a relatively low cost of living area and can still barely afford it. And lessons/showing is out of the picture right now. It’s depressing. I hate the thought of giving up my half lease because the horse is absolutely lovely and brings me so much joy but retirement board just went up again…he’s my first priority, obviously.

Lots to think about.

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Oh, I agree that our system is totally f*cked. The world is ending. (Not being sarcastic.) Life is growing completely unsustainable environmentally, economically, and socially. I take great comfort in the fact that I do not, and will not, have children.

That said, I do take issue with the premise that my individual solution (which, really, finding individual solutions is the only thing you can do while waiting for our increasingly right wing and authoritarian society to do a 180 and finally legislate universal healthcare) is completely impossible or unsustainable, especially for people who find themselves on a luxury sport pet forum, with the corresponding greater degree of education, disposable income, and privilege.

The question asked, after all, was “How do people here afford their luxury sport pets”, not “how I can avoid homelessness when there aren’t enough hours in the week to earn the average rent in my city at my current rate of pay.” My “individual solutions” are a lot more accessible to COTHers who ask how to afford competition horses than they are to 90% of the rest of the world.

Do I have inherent advantages I didn’t earn? Absolutely- but guess what so does most everybody on this forum whether they want to admit it or not.

So how did I do this unsustainable, impossible thing?

Couple ways:

  1. When I got laid off from a fancy lawyer job after Lehman Brothers collapsed and knew I could no longer afford to keep my horses in the NY/NJ area, I sold my car, bought a truck and trailer, and moved to TX. Nobody was ever forced to remain in one of the most expensive markets in the country.

  2. I now live in Buffalo, where the cost of living is 1000x more sustainable than it would be in NY, CA, or Boston. It was a conscious decision based in no small part on the fact that “I could work at McDonalds and still afford my mortgage”. Again, no one was ever forced to stay in the most expensive places in the country.

  3. I managed my horses as investments. I bought my first rental property with the proceeds of selling a horse I made up from scratch. In fact I have purchased three different houses, including two that I have lived in, for less than I sold that horse for. Do most people in the country have “Make up a $$$ show hunter” as a viable skill set to draw on? Absolutely not! But guess what we’re on luxury sport pet internet here so what is stopping this audience?

  4. I bought doubles, lived in one unit and rented out the other, so my mortgage has been covered by tenants for years. Most people who are debating how to afford a competition horse can walk into a bank and qualify for an owner occupy mortgage. Buying a home in the first place poses significantly more of a hurdle for other people who aren’t, say, renting out their spare horse farm in Maine. That said, once you can afford to purchase A home, you can afford to purchase a double where a tenant pays a good chunk, if not all of your mortgage.
    Many people who have amassed the ability to buy their first home decide at this point that they would rather have their privacy, and not undergo the hassle of being a landlord, more than they would like to have $10,000 - $35,000 extra dollars a year, depending on rents in your area, to blow on their sport pet. Ok, but at that point, that’s a decision a COTHer with more than average resources who can afford a home in the first place is making, not the systemic oppression that keeps so many people from being able to purchase a home at all.

  5. I rented out my second bedroom on AirBnb. Yep. So I bought a $143k house (in 2018, not the 50s -see again my contention that nobody was ever forced to live in San Francisco or NYC) with a mortgage payment incl taxes and insurance of $1,100, rented out the lower unit for $910, and then rented out the second bedroom in my unit for an additional $750-850 a month. That’s $11,000 a year for being willing to undergo the hassle of being a landlord and an additional $10,000 a year -in a rust belt city, in an apartment with two dogs, no TV, and no central air- just for being willing to have a rotating cast of roommates. If you have a 2 bedroom, guess what, you can do AirBnb. And, while affording a 2Br in a decent enough location and state of repair that you could AirBnb one of the rooms is getting increasingly out of reach for a majority of Americans, it’s much less out of reach for someone who is contemplating how to rearrange their finances to include campaigning a three day horse on the weekends. At that point, it’s more a question that if they have to pick between having a rotating cast of roommates to afford a ricockulous luxury, or foregoing the ricockulous luxury, they prefer to forgo the ricockulous luxury.

In my professional jobs as a real estate attorney and business management consultant, I advise regular people how to build wealth through real estate and building their businesses. I don’t tell them to just make up a fancy show hunter to sell because that’s not a realistic option for them. I am not, after all, advising them how to afford luxury sport pets on a luxury sport pet forum.

However, we’re on COTH here, where people routinely discuss $7,000 saddles or blowing $1,500 a weekend on aiming a flight animal at telephone poles. I could not possibly roll my eyes any harder when someone who is renting out their spare horsefarm in Maine starts soapboxing that my solutions are unsustainable for most people. No shit! But, news flash, I’m not exactly talking to most people, no matter how much “horse poor” luxury sport pet enthusiasts love to assume the mantle of the downtrodden because they just can’t afford a hunter that will be competitive at Wellington.

“Most people” are your Starbucks barista and the guy who vacuums your car at Delta Sonic. Are my solutions unsustainable for them, for reasons that are deeply systemically ingrained and which need to be addressed on a legislative and societal level? Absolutely.

But are my solutions unsustainable for people who have a spare horse farm, or who own three different saddles for their event horse, or who dropped $1000 on tall boots plus $500 on a helmet as their hobby outfit? Decidedly less so!

When you can’t afford rent, much less buy a home, because you make $13.50 an hour and rents in your city are $1600 a month for a 1BR, then you are systematically oppressed by a society that has lost its way.

But when you get to the point where you have a CHOICE to buy a single family home or a double, newsflash, you’re not oppressed, and you’re making a CHOICE, which may or may not affect your ability to additionally afford a luxury sport pet.

Let’s be real and recognize that people here in COTHland have a lot more CHOICES available to them than most people, and my solutions to luxury sport pet ownership are decidedly more in reach in this corner of the woods than they are for 99% of thr rest of the world.

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I’m going through the process that @meupatdoes mentions myself. I own a 5 unit apartment on the fringes of Greater Boston (there is even a thread about it on COTH). I only have this unit through extraordinary luck. SO was making minimum wage 3 years ago and I only just got a decent paying job for my area 2 years ago.

It is not easy. SO and I both work F/T and it is not a gig where you sit there with your hands out for collection on the 1st. We have a double mortgage - it was the only way we could have obtained this property because unlike in Meupatdoes’ scenario, we are not the affluent demographic they describe. I was that barista up until a few years ago :wink: .

On the 1st of the month if all tenants pay on time, our mortgage ($~2700/mo) and our seller’s note mortgage ($1333) are paid - but that includes us paying into the account as tenants as well. In 5 years when the 2nd mortgage is paid in full, we will be ‘pocketing’ $2000/mo into the house account - but this isn’t free spending money. This is money that goes towards RE tax ($12k/y) and repairs. So they are right in that regard, that these investment properties seriously pay for themselves very shortly. But not right away unless you are independently wealthy and can buy outright without amassing a ton of debt.

We closed on the house and that week had a water pipe burst. Then the boiler quit on Thanksgiving just as we sat down to eat. Another water leak on December 24th. Last week SO was in one of the tenant’s units after his work to fix a broken thermostat. One of the tenants had defaulted on payment for 6+ months. It cost $2,000+ to evict him - an eyewatering sum when you consider we were living off of Quaker oats and water for a few months to make this happen. This tenant occupied the most expensive unit, so in addition to eating the cost of eviction we also lost nearly $10k in rent over his 8 month rent-free stay.

It’s been an interesting journey. I haven’t even touched in on some of the other challenges, like finding tenants or all of the paperwork or having to plow/shovel at 4 AM before your Boston work commute :nauseated_face: … and it has totally eaten into my available riding time, too.

The first time I saw Meupatdoes supply this solution years ago on another thread, I bristled – because they seemed to be callously unaware of how unobtainable their path is for 90% of people. But I started thinking about it, and I think they are at least partially right for a specific demographic (those who board at $$$$ barns). We own horses - most of us are not making minimum wage. My horse costs me about ~$13k a year for food/farriery. I imagine that’s ballpark less than what it costs for most people in my area since I keep him at home. The smart thing to do would be to go without for a few years, take that money you would have spent sustaining a nearly unsustainable hobby, and put it as a downpayment on a house and/or rental unit.

Or… save up, and move somewhere else. I have family here, so I am firmly tied to Greater Boston and its HCOL until they move or pass away. But I am already planning on where we will go next… I’m thinking Aiken… :wink:

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Would part leasing or leasing be a cheaper option?

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Why cant you move to a lower COL area? There are so many remote job opportunities now I find it hard to believe people are absolutely tied to certain areas (aside from dependent family) other than just not being willing to leave.

I am in the horse capitol of the world making a very nice salary in a moderate COL area. Right now the only thing killing our household disposable income is my $2400/mon daycare bill. Its almost twice our mortgage on our 12 acre farm 10 mins from downtown (granted we bought several years ago and put $120k down on it and refied at a very low rate). But daycare is temporary and we were not willing to cut corners on that expense. I have to be near an airport but other than that we could be anywhere we want. I’d love to be back east but I had to take a hard look at our income to COL ratio and what we would have to give up to do it. I am not sure I am willing to give that up as it would very much affect our comfort level and my ability to continue to compete two horses. Not to mention the proximity to multiple events at the KHP-no hotel, low fuel costs, reduced stabling because you can haul in. Id love to show all over but right now its the best option until that daycare bill drops off and our 529s are fully funded.

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I don’t know why this post got replaced with a later response to a different poster but it did.

Sorry folks, it was unintentional!

But basically I was just responding to beowulf.

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