How do you afford it?

[beowulf]

Greater Boston I think you’d need to be a millionaire to buy a 5 unit in Boston.

I’m not sure that anyone could find even a shack for the figures you mentioned even in Greater Boston – so it is probably all relative to the area. A single family home on a postage stamp starts at $300k here, and that’s a fixer-upper and/or demo.

While I think I paid an absolute fortune (and thinking about it is just eyewatering, as the queen of frugality), we paid about $200k less than market value and could, today, sell this for twice what we bought it for last June.

It is definitely easier where the math is more favorable. SO and I have semi-dependent family members here, so we’re tied to the area for the foreseeable future, but my goal is to move out of the house we own in 5 years. Both of us have jobs that cannot be remote, either, so that is a consideration when deciding QOL/living costs with wages as well.

[meupatdoes]

Sounds legit and totally reasonable.

My only point that I’m making is that, in COTHland, it’s an option available to people to own a 5 unit in Boston. I could never afford that, even though I have three houses and a horse on a single income.

So in this audience, my “impossible solutions” are a loooooot more possible than they are for 90% of the rest of the world.

[cyanskies]

While I don’t think you are completely wrong in all cases, I do think you are overestimating the amount of wealth many of us have. I lived in a 100 sqft camper trailer with no running water for a while, to be able to keep working on a horse farm. It did have heat, but I couldn’t always afford propane - and let me tell you, it gets cold at night in a metal box with no insulation in the winter.

I could have sold my horses - but to what end? It wouldn’t have been enough for a down payment on a house.

Your advice is certainly useful for the folks who already have a foot on the first rung of the ladder. But there are plenty of us for whom our not-so-luxurious, not-so-sporty pets may be literally all we have.

[quietann]

I agree that MPD is overestimating what some posters here, including OP, have in available assets. They come from a H/J background, where there is much more money floating around, even at lower/local levels.

If I was willing to leave my husband, sure I could go somewhere much less expensive… but, that’s not happening.

[cyanskies]

Your husband is a lucky guy. My husband and I were long distance for the first 1.5 years of our marriage, due to each of us having horsey goals on opposite sides of the country. He knows without a doubt that the horses come first, always!

[meupatdoes]

I don’t think I am overestimating other COTHers available assets so much as people who already own horses are overestimating their hardships.

Newsflash: if you are already covering the carrying costs on horses (plural!), you already have your foot on the first rung of the ladder.

People describe having husbands - oh you mean that for decades you’ve had a second earner helping you pay for your mortgage and grocery bill? What’s that hardship like?

I literally provided the math: the total cash I had to come up with (through whatever combination of work and privilege) to purchase three houses which now bring in $4800 a month and cost $1980 to carry was $30k over six years.

$30,000 over six years.

If you are a first generation American single mom in a minimum wage job who can barely stay out of homelessness I will 100% understand why you can’t “just come up with” a $5k deposit to buy an owner occupy double in an affordable market. That is “most people”.

But if you are reading your morning sport pet forum, spending $20k a year boarding a luxury pet in one of the most expensive markets in the country, and have a second earner in your household to boot, and you think me scratching together $30k in downpayments for investment properties over six years is “hunter jumper money floating around” and that I am “underestimating your available assets”, please spare me.

This is the exact blind cluelessness of the horse-privileged that I find absolutely maddening.

[devvie_continued]

I don’t! I’m happily a “part-boarder,” with the support of a great owner, who not only lets me ride the horse as much as I want for part-board fee, but also is willing to trailer me places. It’s about having the money, sure, but it’s also about relationships. Is the horse perfect? Hell no, but I’m very happy with the arrangement, and very grateful that I get to ride. Am I the perfect part-boarder? Hell no, since I don’t have the money to show a lot. But in this instance it works.

[quietann]

I never said that I don’t have those assets. There was a time in my life when I didn’t, which is why I didn’t ride for 25 years and didn’t even own a horse until I was 44. I am just saying that if you look at some of the other posters here, you’re assuming they have more than they do.

[meupatdoes]

Well, when I am participating in a luxury sport pet forum answering the question how I afford owning a horse, I do assume that people who are contemplating carrying a competition horse have some more assets than your average American.

For example, I bought my house for $70k in 2020. Not $700k, $70k. I do assume that the average horse person could probably afford to qualify for and carry $500 a month mortgage (including taxes and insurance) especially if they rent out the other unit for $1,100 a month. Or if they treat it as a straight investment property
-hint: you don’t have to live here!- and rent out both units for $2200 total, which profit would cover a good chunk of a board bill, no?

Am I supposed to think a $15k downpayment on an investment property, which downpayment will pay itself back in seven months of rental income, is unsustainable for people who would really prefer to spend $15k a year boarding a horse?

I make these assumptions since I’m posting in the COTH forum, which is dedicated to sport horses as hobbies, not the local Buy Nothing group, where single moms in my city routinely put up posts asking if anyone has any spare groceries they can pick up since their food stamps ran out.

[Spudsmyguy]

I have a job that lets me work from anywhere I have high speed internet, I’ve been trying to get my husband to get on board with moving out of this area. It’s getting more and more congested and it hurts my heart to see the farm land get eaten up by development. I keep my horse at a barn where I have several friends, is eventing centric, and is 10 minutes from home. Board is in line with what I can afford but I have no dreams of eventing recognized again, been there, done that. I’m happy with the occasional derby or local schooling shows (the local saddle club puts on several during the year, both dressage and h/j), and volunteer at the recognized events in my area - the ones at the Washington State Horse Park. My job pays about average and I’m angling for a raise in the not too distant future. DH pays the mortgage, I pay for food, electric, and cable.

[RAyers]

@meupatdoes, this is where you are very different than many of us:

" I managed my horses as investments. I bought my first rental property with the proceeds of selling a horse I made up from scratch. In fact I have purchased three different houses, including two that I have lived in, for less than I sold that horse for. Do most people in the country have “Make up a $$$ show hunter” as a viable skill set to draw on? Absolutely not! But guess what we’re on luxury sport pet internet here so what is stopping this audience"

You don’t see horses as partners or companions, they are commodities, regardless of how you may feel. It is clear you are willing to sell a horse to do whatever you feel is best for you. And in all honesty, many of us DON’T want to buy a home or have real estate. It is a pain in the ass to manage and maintain. Why would I want to invest in something that I have to be a landlord or building manager (or have to hire the equivalent)? I am too damn busy in my own career already to add another how many hours to the 60-70 I work already.

You are arguing a very specific answer that is not even wanted by a majority of people nowadays (declining home ownership). And now that the market is so jammed, it anchors you in places that many feel are not sustainable.

[meupatdoes]

I mean, yeah, Reed.

Short of being born independently wealthy, people have to go through the hassle of working for their money such as by being landlords or training up and selling the horse in order to afford luxury sport pets.

I personally feel that managing three income properties is less work than working 70 hours a week, and have my properties precisely so that I don’t have to work 70 hours a week.

Since I haven’t quite figured out how to support myself and a horse without doing any work at all, this is the best way I personally have figured out to afford what a horse costs in the given hours per week I have to earn money.

But it seems that honestly what people want to know is “How can I campaign luxury sport pets in one of the most expensive markets in the country without moving to a more affordable area, without building any passive income streams, never ever selling any horses because I want to keep them aaalllll, never having to be a landlord or even an airbnb host, while also working few enough hours that I actually have time to ride?”

In which case I do not have an answer other than “Be born richer.”

[sami-joe]

Amen.
We’ve been sold a bill of goods that our rugged individualism will save us when it seems more likely that it has carved us up into our own little silos. I am ashamed of how guilty I am of this way of thinking. I’m famously hard to help.

Turning us against each other worked well for the Robber Barons in the 1920s & 30s and our current Tech Bros have bots doing that work for them. Maybe we can learn a little from history and not have to go through a world war to join up for the greater good.

[Jealoushe]

Not a lot of people can buy property now…I mean in very rural Ontario the average home price is over $700k. My neighbours 1000 sq ft 1980 bungalow just sold for $701K. This is not an expensive area at all whatsoever. Only people with extra money to invest or from selling with equity can buy property now in Canada.

[AMWookey]

We chose to live an hour from where we will be working IOT afford to buy a home and some land. We got extremely lucky with our purchase and the price we got it for, but will still need to put up fencing, and convert a shell to a barn (and add electricity etc). It’s a huge project, especially when you consider we will now how a two hour commute and won’t always be able to travel together because of differing schedules.

It will hopefully allow us some stability for the next ten years (military, but we chose to buy in a location half way between 2 bases we are likely to work at), but we are sacrificing time, wear and tear on vehicles, as well I don’t know when we will be able to afford a ring, let alone an indoor or lights (we are moving to Ontario).

We have no intention of being priced out of horses (we both ride) but it does mean that we may need to stick with careers we don’t love anymore, that take us away from each other often, and put us in harms way. I have 9 years left to a pension, but likely will either have to stay in, or find another desk job, which is the last thing I want to do.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

I’m incredibly impressed with what you’ve achieved @meupatdoes! But I don’t think you give yourself quite enough credit for how much work and savvy it takes to be a landlord, and to carefully calculate how much house you can acquire, balancing the cost of improvements, the property itself, and how much you can make in rent.

I have some friends who gave it a try and nearly all of them eventually got rid of the additional property. Tenants who didn’t pay, who trashed the house, unexpected repairs (like poor @beowulf experienced) which were sometimes due to tenant idiocy, you name it. Even nice tenants who paid up on time and were sane often never cleaned the place, and required mold and pesticide treatments after they left. I’ve heard enough horror stories I’d never rent a room of my house, I must confess, unless I was desperate.

My uncle did make a success of it, but he came from a generation where he was so handy he could do almost all the repairs himself. (I mean, put up gutters repairs, not just unclog a sink.) And it was a full-time job for him. Being a landlord is still work, even though it sounds like it’s work you are incredibly good at, and have leveraged your knowledge and savvy to maximize its impact, and can fit into your schedule.

[Djones]

Read this article about Dan Kreitl, the guy who bought a house in a college town and then almost won the 4* this weekend.

From The Magazine: Dan Kreitl Demonstrates Patience, Positivity And Perseverance

is it a snap to do what he and @meupatdoes are doing? No, it’s work. But it is a way to get more things working FOR you than JUST you.

I mean it’s that, be born richer, or win the lottery…

[Jealoushe]

He’s a realtor, which I think gives an advantage.

[beowulf]

Oh yes. One of the things they don’t tell you[g]: the condition of the home after a long-time tenant leaves.

We had our (great) tenant of 9 years leave after the unexpected death of her father. Her mother was dependent, so she had to move in with mom. She gave us a 60 day notice. Her departure just happened to coincide with Year End hell for me at work - we’re operating a lean crew with 2 of our long-time heavyweights having retired right before year end. I was in financial/work hell for several weeks, and still had to come home and scrub out years of just… life accumulation from this one tenant’s apartment. I was getting home from work/barn chores at 9 PM, and plastering walls, scrubbing floors, and ripping up carpet until 11, eat a cup of oatmeal, go to bed and rinse/repeat again. There were days I came close to tears discovering new unexpected bumps (like the rotted floor that we didn’t even know about that required near total renovation) and I am not a crier. The hits kept coming - our deadbeat tenant finally got evicted but he left his apartment in shambles. There was human feces all around the bathroom, the wall, some awful thing in the shower I don’t even know what it was… The fridge was covered in black mold, even inside - I tried to clean it but in good conscience could not even consider having someone live there so tossed the fridge and set nuclear war to the walls. The unexpected cost[s] of labor, time, buying a new fridge, repairing destroyed floors and carpet, renting the carpet cleaners and the various and sundry purchases of cleaning agents… it was a crucible you could not pay me to relive, and all of this coming from our own personal $$ and not the “house account” considering the deficit we were operating in with the defaulted renter/lawyer/closing costs/mortgage/etc…

[Djones]

He started in college, like most anyone…he tried something and …made it work.

As Dan was competing he was also studying entrepreneurship. He was looking for a way to pay for his housing, and real estate seemed “somewhat affordable,” so he took out a loan for a five-bedroom house and rented it to four of his friends and lived there. He started his student housing business, The Campus Edge, while he was in school. Today, his business owns 60 houses and seven apartment buildings within a half a block of the Ball State campus.

I’ve had a great tenant and a couple of wackadoos, I get it. The last one didn’t bother to notice the window AC until wasn’t draining properly- thank goodness she wasn’t here long and the damage was minimal…but yeah - I get it. the upside,her rent paid for 6K worth of work we’d put into the place so we benefitted from her paying US rent instead of someone else.