How do you claim a horse?

[dressagetraks]

@LaurieB

I get that it’s fiction but…new owners take possession of claimed horses at the end of the race–while the horses are still on the track. It’s all done out in the open and in front of everyone.

It sounds as though that particular story involves some hyperbole.

Might well be hyperbole, but this would have been back probably late 19-teens, 1920 at the latest given Black Gold’s birthdate. Were those claiming procedures like today followed way back then even at all little tracks?

ETA: Just went hunting in my library for any other source on this, which I didn’t have a chance to do last night. Blood Horse in the Ten Best Kentucky Derbies says that the incident took place in Juarez, Mexico, in 1916, and involved a double-barrel shotgun. Apparently, per their version, there was an argument in the stewards’ office, and then the owner stalked out and went back to stake out the stall with his gun. Maybe the argument in the stewards’ office took place after an attempted taking over on the track? Anyway, their version is more detailed than Marguerite Henry’s. Owner was ruled off all tracks in North America for life, which indicates that there must have been a pretty major offense of shotgun-wielding level.

ETA2: Skimming that whole chapter on Black Gold, there’s a point I had forgotten. When Black Gold won the Kentucky Derby, his owner, the widow of the above shotgun-wielding “nobody claims my horse” guy, insisted on being paid the purse in cash. She was from a Native American reservation, and she was understandably a bit suspicious of paper promises. Churchill paid her in cash as requested. :yes:

[snaffle1987]

@Palm Beach

@snaffle1987 so wrong. As Laurie pointed out, claiming trainers watch horses train every day in person, and also will try to get a close look at the horse in the paddock. Which is why you have horses coming over in bandages - to try to trick people who are thinking about claiming the horse. And you are also wrong about the price tag when purchasing a horse privately. It’s usually MORE expensive if the horse is still running because you pay the claiming price plus any prize money the trainer feels the horse is capable of making in the short term.

Hey Palm Beach, Debby downer, I was insinuating that you cannot go over a horse with a fine toothed comb when claiming, there is still large inherent risk with claiming horses. Watching a horse walk in a paddock or in a morning workout is just the surface of it all.How many horses do we see advertised as no-vises, sound, by their trainers, ,no obvious leg injuries to the naked eye in photos on CANTER trainer listings and then scroll down to view their trot clip and find a horse who is obviously not sound… AND STILL RACING. Then there is laurierace’s story of ownership intentionally adding cotton in a wrap to make it appear the horse has a massive bowed tendon.

Yes, if you are claiming the trainers do all the due-diligence that they are able to do. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes they still end up with tripod of a horse. The act of claiming is just as much of a gamble as dropping a bet at the ticket window; only you could end up with a horse that’s injured or needs serious maintenance or time off.

To insinuate to the OP that reaching out to the trainer and connections is a waste of time is utterly absurd. The horse could be bombing at the track and not paying their way at all. The ownership may be hoping and praying some idiot comes along and drops 15k to claim it out of stupidity. It NEVER hurts to inquire.

[LaurieB]

@dressagetraks

Might well be hyperbole, but this would have been back probably late 19-teens, 1920 at the latest given Black Gold’s birthdate. Were those claiming procedures like today followed way back then even at all little tracks?

ETA: Just went hunting in my library for any other source on this, which I didn’t have a chance to do last night. Blood Horse in the Ten Best Kentucky Derbies says that the incident took place in Juarez, Mexico, in 1916, and involved a double-barrel shotgun. Apparently, per their version, there was an argument in the stewards’ office, and then the owner stalked out and went back to stake out the stall with his gun. Maybe the argument in the stewards’ office took place after an attempted taking over on the track? Anyway, their version is more detailed than Marguerite Henry’s. Owner was ruled off all tracks in North America for life, which indicates that there must have been a pretty major offense of shotgun-wielding level.

ETA2: Skimming that whole chapter on Black Gold, there’s a point I had forgotten. When Black Gold won the Kentucky Derby, his owner, the widow of the above shotgun-wielding “nobody claims my horse” guy, insisted on being paid the purse in cash. She was from a Native American reservation, and she was understandably a bit suspicious of paper promises. Churchill paid her in cash as requested. :yes:

I can well believe that a hundred years ago in Mexico, shotguns were involved in horse claims. :lol:

I love the story about Black Gold’s owner wanting to be paid in cash.

[LaurieB]

So you were “insinuating that you cannot go over a horse with a fine toothed comb when claiming” when what you actually said was:

@snaffle1987

…the majority of claims done at the track for racing do so without photos, videos, or much prior knowledge on the horse….

Okay. Got it.

[Palm_Beach]

@snaffle1987

To insinuate to the OP that reaching out to the trainer and connections is a waste of time is utterly absurd.

You need to go back and reread the thread, where I clearly state the OPPOSITE - that I think it’s not a good idea for the OP to CLAIM a horse.

[Palm_Beach]

@Palm Beach

Strange, claiming a horse you’ve never seen, obviously not to race or breed for racing.

@snaffle1987

[Palm_Beach]

@Palm Beach

You’d spend thousands of dollars on a horse sight unseen? No video, no pics, no performance records other than racing? I have one right now I’ll sell you!!!

@snaffle1987

[Palm_Beach]

@Palm Beach

But would you pay thousands of dollars for her, sight unseen? No picture, no video, nothing? THAT is what would be odd. And I believe the bottom at Penn, or Parx, or wherever the horse is, is about $4,000.

And any mare with any kind of pedigree and conformation would have been claimed well above that price.

@snaffle1987

[Palm_Beach]

@snaffle1987

The horse could be bombing at the track and not paying their way at all. The ownership may be hoping and praying some idiot comes along and drops 15k to claim it out of stupidity.

The owner is an idiot if the horse is bombing at the track and the horse is in for 15. The bottom, I believe, is $4,000.

[snaffle1987]

[edit] 5 responses in a matter of minutes… 11:37, 11:38, 11:39, 11:40, 11:42.

sheeeeesh

[LaurieB]

@snaffle1987

[edit] 5 responses in a matter of minutes… 11:37, 11:38, 11:39, 11:40, 11:42.

sheeeeesh

And yet, they all make sense.

As opposed to…

[Rackonteur]

@va2txrider

The daughter of a broodmare I have is racing at Penn National soon, and I’ve thought about trying to claim her. I have no idea how to do this, and unfortunately I have to be in Boston the night she is running. How do you go about claiming a horse, and would there be any way to have an agent/trainer get her until I can pick her up?

I think it’s cool that you want to claim the daughter of your mare.

Good luck!

[Palm_Beach]

@snaffle1987

@ palm beach. [edit]

Well, if you would not post incorrect information about me, I would not have to go back and point out how wrong you are. I should look up how to multi quote.

[ASB_Stars]

@LaurieB

And yet, they all make sense.

As opposed to…

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[ecpolo]

OP, if I were you I would contact Canter PA people and ask them if they are on good terms with the owner/trainer of the horse. If so, they may be able to help you make a deal. I would avoid any other avenues. I have gotten some nice horses this way. If they aren’t on good terms with the owner/trainer you could always find a way to speak with them in person. Be warned, this can be a rather frustrating and heartbreaking process. I have been stalking a mare who’s been on her way out for ages, even went to freakin Fairmount Park to talk to the trainer like 2 years ago. He was not interested in selling her at the time, but he took my number down after I basically begged him to. Her equibase updates give me a stomach ache so I had to stop looking.

[Pronzini]

@ecpolo

I have been stalking a mare who’s been on her way out for ages, even went to freakin Fairmount Park to talk to the trainer like 2 years ago. He was not interested in selling her at the time, but he took my number down after I basically begged him to. Her equibase updates give me a stomach ache so I had to stop looking.

I’m always a little curious about this–how do people pick racehorses to “stalk” for purchase or other acquisition when the horse clearly hasn’t been advertised for sale outside of the racetrack? Is it the pedigree or the name or what?

Look at it from the perspective of the people who own that horse. It’s really no different than someone cold calling about your saddle horse or a hunter jumper or what have you? “Are you done with him yet?”

Why did you “beg” the trainer to take your number down? The horse is clearly not for sale.

Your advice to work with Canter is a good one because those horses are for sale.

[Xctrygirl]

Only chiming in here because I got Gin from his race connections, after just seeing his name in the entries for that night, based on:

His pedigree shouted great sport horse
His videos of his movement
Pics from the winner’s circle of his size, build etc
and past connections singing his praises.

I went and saw him in person and laid hands on him before everything was final but on the first phone call I knew I wanted him enough to drive 5 hours roundtrip to go see him.

Em

[ecpolo]

@Pronzini

I’m always a little curious about this–how do people pick racehorses to “stalk” for purchase or other acquisition when the horse clearly hasn’t been advertised for sale outside of the racetrack? Is it the pedigree or the name or what?

Look at it from the perspective of the people who own that horse. It’s really no different than someone cold calling about your saddle horse or a hunter jumper or what have you? “Are you done with him yet?”

Why did you “beg” the trainer to take your number down? The horse is clearly not for sale.

Your advice to work with Canter is a good one because those horses are for sale.

If I have a horse off the track who’s easily made and I find out they have siblings of the right size and confirmation, siblings go on my stalking list. There are also a few lines I follow just in general.

I wouldnt be offended if someone approached me about a horse of mine. It’s happened before, someone says “oh when she slows down please call me I would like to have her”. I think it’s nice. It’s not like any horse can just run and turn on a dime until they’re 25. I like having retirement setups already in place. I know that many trainers like it as well. There are a couple of them who call me directly when they need to get rid of a horse that they know I would like. It’s just business to me I guess. If I have space and the horse vets I grab it up and nobody has to bother with internet ads or any other nonsense.

I believe the issue with the mare I mentioned above is the trainer didn’t get along with the person I was with. I don’t think it was weird of me to urge him to take my number. It would be super weird if I had called him up out of the blue when I noticed the mare stopped racing and training.

In my mind, almost every horse is for sale. If you are willing to pay the price or wait a while.

[dressagetraks]

Speaking just of TB racehorses, I have a mare and a stallion that, if I won the Powerball or something, I’d be making offers to their owners. Several racehorses that I like, but those two, I seriously would in fact try to buy or at least, in the case of the stallion, buy a share of. I have seen one of these (briefly) in the flesh. The other is simply an internet love affair.

Factors, some logical and some not, in landing on those two:

Bloodlines.
Conformation.
The way he looked straight at me for a moment in the paddock at the Arkansas Derby.
Names.
The desire to see how this mare would cross with a stallion I have some frozen on.

Unfortunately, neither of these has been or is likely to be at the claiming ranks or on the low end of a sale if they went through a sale. Both being homebreds, I doubt they will ever see the inside of an auction ring.

[mht]

@Pronzini

Sometimes trainers actually call and tell the current trainer “I’m going to take your horse.” That’s not common but it happened to me in January when my horse got claimed. Then they raised him when they ran him back and my trainer knew he wasn’t going to be claimed because “I didn’t get any calls about him.”

We had this happen at Woodbine last year . Filly had run in a 16k claimer two weeks previous, finishing 5th in a dead heat. Got a phone call from my trainer on race morning that she was going to be claimed, but the owner/trainer was letting us know, in case we wanted to scratch.

The race was a 23.5k claiming, and since this filly was a TERRIBLE bleeder, as had been her sister, and dam, we didn’t have a problem , even though we loved her dearly. She ended up at Fort Erie after that, and now is running at the cheap tracks in the U.S.