How do you decide if it's too much $$ (PDA surgery)

[CHT]

Back in June an obnoxious 1 year old little grey kitty insisted he lived with us. Our resident cats chased him. Our dog chased him. He still managed to get in the house.

Unfortunately they found a “significant” heart murmur when they neutered him. So we went ahead with an echocardiogram…and they found that he has Patent Ductus Arteriosus: when he was born his heart didn’t close the hole between his Aorta and pulmonary artery. Without surgery, they expect he won’t live much past 2 years old.

but…the cost of fixing it is $8-12k. The prognosis and success rate are good, but that is a LOT of money.

Sigh. How do you decide?

[jherold]

Maybe contact a university vet hospital and see if they will do it for less since it might be considered an interesting case. If not, I’d love him until he became symptomatic and then let him go. That’s a lot of money unless you have so much 12,000 seems like 1200 to you.

[GraceLikeRain]

I don’t think anyone can answer that for you. Personally, that’s more money than I could invest. However, if I made twice my current income it would be proportionate to medical decisions I’ve made many times. I don’t think that there is anything morally wrong with saying that there is a maximum limit as long as you are willing to make courageous quality of life decisions when that time comes. Also, if you decide it’s a decision you want to do I wouldn’t let anyone shame you about spending the money. People waste money on things far more frivolous than a life.

[Annie10]

I don’t think I would do it but I also would not let the kitty suffer. He would have a great life for however long and that would be it.
That is a whole bucket of cash.
I do like the vet school idea though. They may want to do it and do a case study on it.
That happened with a dog I had when we discovered an inoperable heart based tumor that was on her aorta and apparently was very rare in dogs. She lived 2 years with it , instead of the 6 months she was given when we found it. When she died they did a necropsy on it and a full case study that is still on file at the vet school.
I’ll tell you what though. If I spent that kind of $$ on heart surgery on a cat his barn cat days would come to an end. His little butt would move in the house

[shiloh]

That’s a lot of money. For me it’s like 4 or 5 months pay at least. I would give him the best life ever. do some palliative care and when it’s time,let him go peacefully. If I had the $$$ I would do it, but…I think no-one would throw a rock at you if you did either.

Give him a kiss and a treat (or 6 or a dozen) for me.

[Bonnie2]

Agreed. If that’s not spare change for you, give him the best life for however long it lasts. That’s all any of us can hope for!

[GoodTimes]

I agree with the others. 12k is a lot of money. Any surgery comes with risk. And little kitty has no concept of a long or short life, he won’t feel that you love him any less if you choose not to go ahead with the surgery.
I would just love and spoil him until his symptoms really start affecting his quality of life.

[CHT]

I don’t think he would like being a house cat. he is very rambunctious…and we have 5 curmudgeons in the house that did their best to run him off when he first showed up.

I think I have come to terms with not doing the surgery. It is a lot of money for a cat who daily makes bad decisions (running under jumps while they are being jumped, jump scaring our husky cross…). I am going to talk to the surgeon next week, but more to discuss what symptoms to look for, and to get a better idea of his current state (see if their is fluid in the lungs).

[CHT]

Booked the consult with the cardiologist next week. Let them know we aren’t doing the surgery, but I just want to know what to expect and what to look for to know its time to let him go. Of course the little guy is being extra adorable.

[Mosey_2003]

I would do the same thing, I wouldn’t be able to justify $12k with my yearly income around $40k before tax/insurance/retirement. I wouldn’t even really be able to justify that for a dog, which I tend to form closer relationships with than my barn cats. I’m sorry you’ve had to face this but he will be lucky to have you watching him and not having to struggle out alone

[Alita]

It’s not a risk free surgery, they literally have to go in there and fix the defect and cross their fingers for a moment as they do that it all goes to plan. Normally it does, but there is a small but very real risk the cat won’t make it out of the surgery. It’s a big, specialist surgery (and why so expensive). If you want to save the cat it is a risk you’d need to take, but It is a big surgery to put the cat through and lot of money and not everyone is going to have that spare to do something like that. No one is going to look down on you for not going ahead. Talk to the cardiologist, but you’re probably going to need to watch out for things like coughing, lethargy, weight loss, reduced appetite, fainting, pale gums, increased effort to breathe etc. If you’re getting concerned about quality of life, it may be good to keep a journal and note down good or bad day and symptoms so if the bad days are outnumbering the good, or if anything is getting to serious symptom wise it can help to make the decision. (Sometimes its something sudden, but other times it can be slower and more difficult to make that call.)

[Pico_Banana]

That is a lot of money for anyone . . . and I think it is 100% okay not to do it. I don’t think I would do it. All you owe Mr. Kitty is lots of love in the time that he has. Sounds like you’ve already got that covered.

He is ridiculously adorable, btw.

[CHT]

He is a sucky little boy who just wants snuggles while I teach. Now the decision is made it is a little easier. We have taken it upon ourselves to TNR the neighbourhood cats, and our money is better spend continuing on that never ending mission, but it is still hard having that power over a living being. Meanwhile he is having a great time and has no clue.

Now I have to work on ways to ensure that he will show up for me to give him three pills twice a day…I stocked up on Temptations and licky treats today.

[CHT]

Thank you.

[GraceLikeRain]

It is a very heavy decision but without you the ability to have a humane facilitated ending wouldn’t even be available so there is a huge gift in that.

As someone who does TNR I can deeply relate to the reality of how far $8k or even $1k can go towards addressing local population issues. Thank you for doing the true prevention work. I know it can be really draining.

The chicken flavored pill pockets have been insanely successful for my crew. One of mine, a dumpster pull, would eat a rock given a chance. The other is very very typical cat picky. Both happily take their meds twice a day. I started off by feeding just a tiny pinch of the pocket and over time found the smallest amount needed to completely cover the pill. Everyone comes running when they hear the pill caddy come out. The beef and peanut butter ones were gladly eaten by ms. rock eater but picky boy snubbed them 50/50.

[CHT]

I forgot all about the existence of pill pockets. The one pills is tiny so that is a perfect solution. Thanks!

[CHT]

Some good(ish) new on Greyson.

1. he thinks Pill pockets are weird, but he will eat his pills if coated in a puddle of Delectable squeezie treats. Not Churu though.
2. he had his Cardiac Surgeon appointment. The vet was understanding of our decision to not operate. We did do an Ultrasound of his heart. Greyson loved it. I was able to see the blood flowing through the PDA hole which was neat.
3. He is responding well to his medication and his heart function has gone from 27% to 47%. He doesn’t show significant fluid on his lungs, so the vet thinks his panting is likely not related to his heart condition, and we can drop one if his medications.
4. Unfortunately the vet saw evidence that he has a heart muscle disease, which is likely why he has the PDA in the first place, and makes him a poor candidate for surgery regardless. He says the median age a cat with his age lives, is 4 years. Knowing that surgery wasn’t a good option made our decision easier to accept. We are going to go back in the spring to recheck him to see if we need to alter his medications.
   
   

[Annie10]

Thank you for doing so much to help him. He’s lucky to be your cat. And while , it’s unfortunate that he has another heart issue, at least you know and hopefully it relieves a little of your guilt or whatever it is you’re feeling about not doing the surgery since he’s not a good candidate for it anyway.

I do a lot of rescuing too, I do dogs instead of cats because hubby is allergic. I get it how far that money can go when there are so many who need resources. he’s lucky to have you to give him his best life for the time he has and then give him a peaceful pass when it’s time.