My mare is “pasture sound”. Comes out of the stall stiff but walks out of it fairly quickly. Can canter/gallop with the best of 'em but sometimes looks off at the trot, especially on hard ground. Or, if she has run around quite a bit. But, she is an excellent weight, enjoys her time outside and is on nothing but a scoop of aspirin a day.
I consider my 24 year old mare pasture sound. She has high ringbone and limps at the trot almost daily. She is on a gram of bute a day.
While she has a noticeable gimp it does not slow her down any. She keeps up with her buddies, instigates gallops around the field, lays down to sleep, rolls when she feels like it, has a shiny coat and is in good weight. She does have days she is sore, but I feel the gimp is more ofte mechanical then pain induced. She’s pleasant and affectionate and active in herd dynamics. She could easily defend herself if needed.
So while she may not look sound everyday, she does not appear to be in significant pain and is still enjoying her quality of life.
When I will no longer consider her pasture sound will be when she isn’t interested in the herd, can’t keep up, couldn’t defend herself, and stops taking her 10 am -12 pm nap in the sun because she can’t get back up.
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[QUOTE=Dressage_Diva333;4535707]
To me it means that the horse can live comfortably in a pasture without any additional maintence, but is not riding sound. I’ve got several that are ‘pasture’ sound. 95% of the time they look 100% sound, but due to old injuries, would not hold up to being ridden regularly. None require extra maintence, and are as happy as can be.[/QUOTE]
That’s pretty much my definition.
If the horse needs frequent medication to control pain or discomfort and/or can’t stay in a good weight on a normal ‘pastured riding horse’ diet and maintainence schedule, then it’s dropped below “pasture sound”.
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[QUOTE=Fharoah;5833804]
is it high or low ring bone, front or hind? In the pastern sometimes chemical fusion can be a consideration. Have you had a vet specializing in sports medicine evaluate him for options and opinions. I am sorry you are going through this.[/QUOTE]
It is high, in his right front. It was the result of a soft tissue injury this past January. I would consider my vet an expert in the area. She diagnosed him using an MRI, and she consulted other vets and farrier with the results. He was injected, and shod correctively. :sadsmile: I am awaiting a call back from her to see what our next steps should be. It just feels weird to see him head-bobbing out there.
We’ve got some pretty gimpy horses at my barn, due to either old age or congenital defects. It’s amazing how fast and agile some of them are on three legs.
For me the cutoff comes with:
Pain which is impacting quality of life
Can’t move around to get to food and water
Can’t be trusted to get back up easily after lying down
Can’t support weight on all limbs for farrier care
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[QUOTE=carp;5834506]
We’ve got some pretty gimpy horses at my barn, due to either old age or congenital defects. It’s amazing how fast and agile some of them are on three legs.
For me the cutoff comes with:
Pain which is impacting quality of life
Can’t move around to get to food and water
Can’t be trusted to get back up easily after lying down
Can’t support weight on all limbs for farrier care[/QUOTE]
Well, the last 2 on your list are debatable due to other issues. :sadsmile:
[QUOTE=Gloria;4533040]
Meaning he is comfortable in the pasture. It also means, he is not sound under saddle.[/QUOTE]
This. Sometimes the best definition in the simplest.
How much is too gimpy and whether the horse needs some maintenance are individual choices. Gimpy does not necessarily = chronic pain. One horse may not be comfortable in a big herd but do quite well by itself or with one other horse. Another might need a little maintenance to feel comfortable.
One of my geldings is pasture “sound” but still has a discernible toe drag/gimp. However, he runs with the herd, plays rearing stallions with the youngster, and has zero problems keeping on weight. He gets no maintenance as honestly, he tears around quite well without it. If he gets thin, cannot keep up with the herd, or loses his sparkle, I will let him go.
[QUOTE=2boys;5834466]
It is high, in his right front. It was the result of a soft tissue injury this past January. I would consider my vet an expert in the area. She diagnosed him using an MRI, and she consulted other vets and farrier with the results. He was injected, and shod correctively. :sadsmile: I am awaiting a call back from her to see what our next steps should be. It just feels weird to see him head-bobbing out there.[/QUOTE]
See if you vet thinks IRAP and a loading dose of adequan will help. Have you tried turning him out with previcoxx. Ring flares up and can be quite painful, sometimes just time and turnout with NAID’s the ring bone will just settle its self down in time. I would also consider trying barefoot or natural balance shoes. I have a horse with pastern issues seems comfortable barefoot.
What would you do with a horse that can stand in front of hay feeder and eat and get to waterer ok, but with clear lameness. Is on bute daily. No chance of recovery. Is 20 years old. He is the head of the herd so managed to keep the others off his hay. I know 99% of people would euthanize him, but I love him and he doesn’t seem in distress. He seems pretty happy and chill standing in front of feeder and his best buddy and him stand there grooming each other all day so I’m not sure .
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My pasture sound 26 year old is still very happy to be in charge of my small herd of 4, willingly trots or canters in the field from time to time, eats well, is engaged in life, and seems pretty happy in general. When she trots, you can see something is a little off, probably in the hind end. She’s not lame enough to cause concern, and it probably wouldn’t be apparent to someone who didn’t know what to look for. If she trots in lamer than usual, or the farrier is coming soon, I’ll give her a few doses of bute, but otherwise, she’s not medicated. She seems to enjoy going for a short walking trail ride once or twice a year, but otherwise is never ridden.
I wrote this years ago, but this is still the evaluation i use for a pasture pet with lameness. Daily Bute is hard on their stomach, can create ulcers. Does he ever leave his hay to go get exercise? Not moving much is not good for his bodily functions, digestion, circulation, that movement and exercise aids in working well. Does he have acess to grazing to tempt him away from hay? And what do his other legs look like now? Limping to protect the bad leg over-weights the good legs. Those previously good legs can actually wear out faster, develop new issues working so hard. People don’t notice other legs going bad because they blame all problems on his “bad leg”. That old saying “he hasn’t got a good leg to stand on”, sadly is the truth.
You have to put the horse first, no matter how much you love them. He is not going to improve. Has he been better in the past? Has the Vet looked at him recently? Daily changes, deterioration can escape our view with seeing him all the time. “New eyes” may see him much more clearly, when we don’t notice the changes. We have to let them go when the time comes, because as my Grampa put it, “He isn’t having fun anymore. His time here is a burden on him.”
Always better to let them go, than waiting too long and making him suffer at the end.
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Can he comfortably walk around? Does he regularly lay down and gets up without distress?
If a horse is clearly lame just walking to a water source and primarily stands in front of a food source on daily bute, I would humane euthanize. Loving a horse is not a justification for keeping them with us beyond what is humane. Remember that they are prey animals adapted to hide pain and discomfort at all cost. If he isn’t able to mosey around, lay down, roll, seek out other horses for company, etc. then I think quality of life should be a real conversation.
If he was not your horse, would you think that euthanasia was the most humane and compassionate option?
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Timely for me as I am evaluating the quality of life of my gelding.
- Age 11
- Has a had a history of ups/downs, never really sound long enough between incidents to do anything more than trained and gone to 1 schooling show, where he injured himself, lol.
- Diagnosed with Cushings last year, managed on 1/2 prascend daily, tested few times throughout the year. Requires body clipping to stay comfortable.
- Horrible dry, flakey skin, very itchy all the time - trying to figure out management here both dietary, medicinal, and topical, actively w/ vet, to no avail ...yet.
- Cannot be turned out with or led with other horses, he kicks them, but happy enough in his own space, until...
- The "turkey timer" that pops if he's outside too long (time deemed by him and never the same, can't figure out the trigger) and will run/pace fenceline until he's a mess.
- Okay to be led/handled 98% of the time, but spooky/looky, and cannot be hard tied.
- Sound-ish without rider, on longe. Starts off stiff but works out of it.
- Unrideable, unhappy with being ridden. Rehabbing injury 1.5 years inclusive of rest, slow work, multiple treatments (standard injection before cushings diagnosis, most recently gone through IRAP, also several Osphos treatments, on adequan as well). Currently getting daily Equioxx.
- During the process of trying to diagnose his injury, discovered lots of smaller issues/areas of concern - arthritic changes. The list of joints that need treatment/maintenance calendar has gotten too long at this point, and to no avail, he's still uncomfortable.
- Body work - chiro, massage, acupuncture, cold laser - all of it and on a regular basis, therapies happening at a minimum of 1x a month if not more depending on scheduling.
- Multiple saddle fitting attempts, many saddles tried, own custom saddle made, to no avail.
- And yes, ulcers checked, none what so ever.
The AVMA and AAEP have euthanasia guidelines that state:
“A horse should not have to endure continuous or unmanageable pain from a condition that is chronic and incurable.“
and
”A horse should not have to receive continuous analgesic medication for the relief of pain for the rest of its life.”
https://aaep.org/guidelines/euthanasia-guidelines
This indicates to me that “pasture sound” should emphasize the second part of the phrase. Especially knowing that horses hide any infirmity, your unrideable pastured horse should look completely sound out there.
That said I kept a retired horse comfortable on bute for a couple years and I believe he enjoyed his time. And I know of lots of other horses who did well that way too. And some that should have been let go many, many years before - shame on their owners.
When I had a horse who was pasture sound and who some day would not be, I remember being surprised to read that guideline about not having to receive constant meds for pain relief. I thought it was common practice among those who had their horses as pets rather than work animals to keep them around on daily doses of bute.
Having been down this road once and euthanized him in the end anyway, as was inevitable, my standard for pasture sound has gotten higher. I’m not sure I’d keep a horse around if he needed bute every day to get around. Even though my opinion is in line with what the AVMA and AAEP offers, I will bet there are people reading this right now who think I’d be an a-hole for not pensioning out a horse who wasn’t riding sound.
@mvp me too - on being surprised to read that, keeping a horse on pain m de, and deciding not to do it again.
A barnmate was allegedly Incensed when I put down my gorgeous 7 yr old WB last year because he had 2 hind suspensories and bad cervical arthritis, PSSM and shivers and was having trouble getting up/down. She offered to take him to live a miserable existence on some far off land, barely supervised. She’s a nurse so the theory is her warped MO is just keeping things alive… no matter what… like she did with her previous crippled horse who eventually died on his own after enduring over a decade of pain :no:
Her attempts to intervene in giving my horse a dignified death made a horrible situation so much worse.
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I made the decision to put a 10 year old down due to a bone chip in his knee. I gave him 6 weeks while I figured out if there was an option to give him a comfortable life. One of the contributing reason I made the decision to euthanize included finances. The other reason included qaulity of life. I had also decided if he was going to need daily pain meds or other interventions it was a no go
There should be no shame in making a decision based on finances. This should include those who able to continue paying for a horse, but are not willing to do so. One barometer should include can I find this horse another home if needed? If the answer is no, then putting the horse down is a reasonable option in my option.
In my case, the bone chip was known but not causing much issue. 6 weeks prior to being euthanized I riding consistently. I did not discuss that I was considering putting him down with many people because I knew I would get push back from certain people. Afterwards, I did receive one nasty phone call.
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I’m sorry you’re going through this. I’m wrestling with a similar situation for my gelding. He’s got a list of issues like your guy too.
- 20 years old
- Absolutely will not tolerate 24/7 turnout (trust me we’ve tried)
- Has heaves (currently under control but fluctuates from manageable to flaring out of control seasonally)
- 3.5 months into rehabbing a torn DDFT in the left front. That’s healing well.
- In the last few weeks, he’s had significant, rather sudden weight loss, attitude change, and lethargy.
- Has sidebones in both fronts.
- We jogged him at his appointment this week and now he’s lame RF. Sidebone is now encroaching. Vet thinks correcting hoof balance and adding therapeutic shoes will give him “some relief.”
-Vet also thinks he might have EPM and/or Lyme based on concerning neuro exam findings. Bloodwork is pending for that.
-Needs daily Equioxx for arthritis and sidebone, and daily Zyrtec for heaves. Dex or ventipulmin when it flares.
I’m asking myself the same questions you are. Is it morally or financially responsible to keep a horse going who is already fighting such an uphill battle and struggling with it? I don’t think I’m ready to make that call either, but to me the EPM would be kind of a line in the sand. If that comes back positive, I don’t know that I can justify another $1500-$2k in testing and treatment for a horse that is aged, and already dealing with so many other ailments.
It’s so hard. Hang in there. 
Wow, you guys have gone to the wall for these two geldings! I would let them both go with a clear conscience. You do not have to justify it for anyone. Enough is enough, the time has come to set their appointments. My deep sympathies to both of you.
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