Following Calambers advice I have been searching out some regular breeders, I have found a breeder reasonably near, who has been breeding since the 70’s and has nice quality pups.
Have already exchanged a couple of emails and will be going to chat to her, I’m sure that it will be a very beneficial meeting.
actually, don’t beagles come in two categories for showing? 
I seem to recall vaguely to have seen a show on Beagles that featured a couple, each had their own pack, one had the taller ones, the other the smaller ones…
(the little ones were supposedly carried in saddle bags and pulled out when the quarry had gone to ground, way back in the day…)
Semantics don’t matter
I don’t see the need to identify it as a puppy mill. You have easily identified it as a breeder taking advantage of the new AKC recognition by intentionally ramping up the number of litters.
Just because someone is a vet, is knowledgeable & experienced, in the show ring, etc does not mean they are ethical.
Flea bags.
I’m really curious: what is this new, must-have, take-the-world-by-storm breed?
There is a difference among a puppy mill, backyard breeder, and irresponsible owner, in my book.
Puppy Mill: produces large quantities of several types of dogs for the sole purpose of resale. Dogs are often “popular breeds” such as Yorkies, Maltese, Havanese, etc. and are pumped out like factory-made items. Their prices are generally MUCH lower than a quality/healthy dog as in $400 for a “purebred Yorkie.” The dogs are rarely registered with a reputable organization and are registered with one that anyone can use (Continental Kennel Club, here in the U.S.)
When you go to a puppy mill, one of the first things that you will encounter is the smell followed by the noise. The smell is overwhelming because the dogs aren’t necessarily kept in glorious kennels. The smell is either urine, feces, and rotting flesh, or bleach so your nosehairs are burning. The sound is deafening.
The dogs are skittish with minimal human interaction. Sometimes they are ill or have skin issues.
The seller won’t ask any questions besides your name for a bill of sale and how you will be paying for the animal. I went to NW Georgia to a location that was selling Cavalier King Charles Spaniels for a friend. I thought it odd they were $300. I showed up and wanted to cry. Literally HUNDREDS of dogs. There was a “breeding barn” with metal cages of dogs shoved in them, stacked and mounted on the wall. There were kennels upon kennels made of old chicken houses. The smell was AWFUL.
Backyard Breeders: Sort of like puppy mill on a smaller scale.
Irresponsible breeders: Whoops! My dog had puppies.
Hydro-they can still be AKC registered. There was a statistical analysis of the numbers of puppies per litter in breeds that suddenly became popular (dalmations after a 101 Dal movie, Papillons after Kirby won Westminster, etc) and the numbers generally went up by at least 10%. Meaning that they are attributing dogs from other parents to the better known or champions dogs. Apparently this is very common.
And some mass breeders of specific breed have a bunch of registered dogs, breed every heat, and constantly have many puppies available to anyone with the money to buy them. I personally call those “Registered Puppy Mills”, and the conditions are very bad there too.
I’m confused by this statement. Are you saying that popularity spurred breeding leads to an increase in registrations because breeders are falsifying records and attributing litters to “better” sires?
If that’s really what you’re saying, do you have any proof of that?
[QUOTE=GraceLikeRain;6519082]
I also love that at 4 weeks the puppies are moved to the “big barn nursery.” I cannot fathom having 8 litters of four week old puppies exposed to 95+ degree weather in Georgia all summer long. They mention that the barn is heated so I guess they keep four-eight week old puppies in the barn throughout the winter as well…fan freaking tastic.[/QUOTE]
In TN, I know that a breeder must keep their puppies in a building with a mailing address. I was able to get a breeder near me shut down after I told someone with the ASPCA that she was keeping her puppies in an air conditioned horse trailer. Don’t know if the same is true in GA…
[quote=Simkie;6520332]I’m confused by this statement. Are you saying that popularity spurred breeding leads to an increase in registrations because breeders are falsifying records and attributing litters to “better” sires?
If that’s really what you’re saying, do you have any proof of that?
[/quote]
I am sure that was common practice before DNA testing. Unless you have all the not so good dogs registered with the star’s DNA (I don’t see where that would be possible or not for lack of knowledge how they keep the data base).
I think since the mid 90s AKC requires DNA…BUT I am not sure…I don’t even own a dog anymore.
Simkie-yes, that’s exactly what the article said. I believe it was in Dog World about 10 years ago. And that’s only ‘registered’ animals, so I’m sure with the different registers that there are all kinds of possibilities with this type of stuff. I remember when there was a movie about Chihuahuas, and everyone knew there would be a huge demand, and later a lot of dumped animals, and that is exactly what happened.
I don’t know if that journal still exists, but there is definitely a surge in the number of puppies produced (I suspect through repeated years of breeding at every possibility) after a dog breed becomes popular, and in the number of people who breed for quantity over quality for the cash involved.
I have no doubt more breeding occurs and more puppies are born and registered during a popularity spike, but I have a hard time believing that pedigrees are falsified during that time.
I’d think most people who buy during a popularity spike (ooooh, 101 Dalmatians was such a cool movie! Let’s get a Dalmatian!) just don’t care about the pedigree.
AKC doesn’t run DNA on every litter, though, so I suppose anything is possible. It looks like they DO run DNA on litters produced by cooled or frozen semen and litters produced by popular sires.
I really think that most people who buy from a ‘registered’ puppy mill type set up probably don’t even bother with the registration to get the papers, because I’m sure most people who shop from online or other mass producers really care about getting the paperwork, but want to say they have a registered dog.
The place I knew about raised hundreds of puppies a year, and advertised extensively in the dog magazine classifieds, and sold to a lot of people who were passing through (lots of truckers liked small dogs then, to take with them on the road), so they throught they were getting a well-bred dog, and they were instead getting a mass produced dog, from bad conditions (a person I know went there and did not buy said the whole house had vinyl floors, and your feet stuck to them, and the smell was awful). That woman was awful, and had a very successful business for years-I’m sure she must have died, because the local animal control wouldn’t have bothered her about anything, because she was connected to a very politically connected family locally, and I can’t see her ever voluntarily quitting the business.
I think the market that the registed mills and pet stores cater to are not going to show a dog or anything else, but they fall in love with a cute face, and the papers aren’t important except for the bragging rights.
To the first post
[QUOTE=HenryisBlaisin’;6518310]
A responsible breeder works with a breed club to breed the best specimens possible for show, performance, or companion animal…Breeders who do not do these things are puppy mills, whether they have one litter a year or 20.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=JanM;6520292]Hydro-they can still be AKC registered. There was a statistical analysis of the numbers of puppies per litter in breeds that suddenly became popular (dalmations after a 101 Dal movie, Papillons after Kirby won Westminster, etc) and the numbers generally went up by at least 10%.
And some mass breeders of specific breed have a bunch of registered dogs, breed every heat, and constantly have many puppies available to anyone with the money to buy them. I personally call those “Registered Puppy Mills”, and the conditions are very bad there too.[/QUOTE]
From the OP’s first post, this person does participate in the show world (“they show their dogs and do well”) and is knowledgeable (a vet and poster on a repro board).
This makes them even worse than an ignorant BYB or strictly money-making-mill. New kids to the show scene will see their success, their numbers, and aspire to emulate it.
This opportunistic mill is exploiting AKC recognition. They should go ahead and lead the AKC or HSUS governing board as they already know the goal- make money via exploitation.
[QUOTE=JanM;6520292]
Hydro-they can still be AKC registered. [/QUOTE]
I never said they couldn’t be AKC registered. I merely said more than likely they have junk registries attached to them. The registry type doesn’t make a person a responsible nor irresponsible breeder. However, I would never purchase an animal with “Continental Kennel Club” registry (or American Pet Registry, Purebred Registry, etc.) I am registered with the ConKC as a “Huskydoodle.” Yes, I have a certificate of registration from them and everything. If you can fill out paperwork and send money in without any legitimate proof of parentage, that’s not exactly a reputable organization (or one that registers humans.) 
Yes-the specific place I had a direct knowledge of did have AKC papers for the puppies, and the breeder did show her dogs at AKC events, but the rest of the dog show people in several states knew about her, and steered people away. She made most of her money through ads in local newspapers, dog magazine ads, and word of mouth. I suspect she died because there is no other reason for her to quit the dog business, because she made so much money with her hundreds of puppies a year, and because she was untouchable by animal control or any other regulatory agency because of family connections. I suspect many people just took the puppy certificate and never sent it in for papers.
She was a despicable human being, and I’m sure many dog owners wished they had never done business with her. Her animals were nervous, yappy, worm-ridden, and many other problems, but I’m sure many people just had them treated instead of sending them back to that pest hole of a house.
We also had a local pet store that had what they called registered dogs, but they were culls from some breeders, and a bunch were from their own breeding farm out by the airport (I never saw it, but heard horrible descriptions) where the beagles and bassets ran around together, interbred, and the puppies were sold as whatever breed they most resembled. That place was disgusting also.
I just don’t understand people that see a living creature as a commodity, and treat them horribly just to make some cash.
many AKC-registered dogs, with legit papers and full records in the possession of the new owners, come from puppy mills. AKC has a long record of supporting puppy mills.
http://www.humanesociety.org/news/press_releases/2012/07/akc_puppy_mills_070912.html
To me they are a puppy mill. No better than all those “Amish” who are raising puppies or the Hunt company. And the co-owning is just meaning they can mass produce. I take no credence for breeders like this having multiple champions because of course they will just from sheer volume…but what happens to all the puppies that are 'petted out"? I have been so disillusioned over AKC and the shows and how the people showing (handlers, etc) that make up to judges on facebook and such that I totally think the whole conformation thing is crap. But if you are going to put any weight into the AKC championship as meaning anything, I’d rather have the breeder that breeds one or maybe two litters a year, thoughtfully planned for and has one or two champions out of each in mind for the next generation.
yeah, well, that’s info from the people who don’t want you to have a dog to begin with…
AKC does more for dogs than the HSUS, and with less money…
Selling via ads, or over the internet instead of a pet shop doesn’t mean it’s not a puppy mill. My understanding is the pet stores pay about 10% of the retail sale price to the puppy producer, so the ones who sell direct are just making a lot more money. Puppy mill is volume, and lack of breeding quality infavor of quantity and money made. When you have hundreds of puppies a year you aren’t breeding for quality or to maintain good blood lines, but to make as much money as possible. And when there is no screening of homes then it’s only for money also. Selling via website is so much more profitable, and you can reach a larger market, so the mass production breeder can make a lot more money by selling animals themselves instead of through a middleman.
I was at the vet with one of my boys this week and brought this up with him. He said:
“If you have to ask, then yes, it is.” 
AKC is simply a registry. They will register anything that meets the criteria. So 100 AKC registered litters a year, or 4 AKC registered litter…could both be from “puppy mills” or bad “backyard breeders”…the difference is pretty irrelevant.
In my opinion, a good breeder is one who looks to breed for the improvement of the breed. And obviously, some are better than others.
Personally, I can’t really support breeders who don’t attempt to prove their breeding quality in some way – conformation, field, agility, obedience, CGC, therapy, whatever. If the puppies are bred ONLY for cute pets, I have a hard time supporting that. Especially when these cute pets are cross-breeds and have minimal health testing. :no:
Please PM me the name and location of this abomination. The Cavalier King Charles Club USA is diligent about investigating such breeders and trying to close them down.
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