How do you determine a Puppy Mill?

[Claddagh]

[QUOTE=godiva13;6543921]
If you are so proud of your breeding program why do you not want to disclose what the breed is?[/QUOTE]

My thoughts exactly. What is the big secret anyway?

One very important question that I have about your breeding program - especially in view of the fact that you produce upwards of 30 litters a year (and that is a lot of puppies!)

what health testing/screenings do you have performed on your breeding stock?

(If you mentioned what health screenings you have performed prior to breeding, I missed it and apologize.)

[Cagney]

I sure hope you are not parents—setting such wonderful examples for online bullying. I have posted my phone number. Call me if you want to discuss intelligently.

[Claddagh]

Cagney,

If you are who I think you are - your dogs are gorgeous!

And we are not bullying. Most here are just trying to gather information and you have been illusive about identifying yourself so that has put people on alert. The discussion about puppy mills is, as I’m sure you are well aware, an important issue.

There are hundreds of them out there that need to be identified and shut down, for the sake of the poor dogs who lead horrible lives there. And most puppy mills will “hide” behind their self-proclaimed “breeding great dogs” advertising. And most puppy mills breed tons of litters (this is what put us the most on alert from your postings).

As I said, if you are who I think you are, I don’t think that you fall into that category at all (at least the identity that I’m assuming is you doesn’t). And I won’t post that identity since if you wanted it to be known you’d have done so yourself.

[Cagney]

CERF, BAER, PLL, Patella–all recommended for my breed. Every adult has been DNA profiled. Every pup is microchipped. Every pup is named. Every pup is weaned naturally by its mother. Every pup is well socialized and exposed to other dogs, cats, children, other people.

It seems that you all think that a backyard, hobby breeder who has the occasional litter is the way to go? Ask veterinarians about that—the condition of pups they see from those situations.

Have you not read my posts? I do NOT have 30 litters living with me. I supervise/mentor people who would otherwise be a backyard hobby breeder, making mistakes as they go. Litters live with the person who is he primary bitch owner. I put my reputation on the line to co-own and assist in an overall breeding program that encompasses them. Some are starting to get interested in dog showing for this reason. Five of these co-owners went to a recent show cluster with me, learning.

With the rhetoric going on in this thread, no wonder HSUS is winning. Twenty years from now, there will no longer be purebred dog breeding. That may make many of you happy. Until then, the bullying of responsible dog breeders makes more of them give it up. That leads to people going to pet stores to buy puppies–they are left with no choice. Do you realize that there is a high demand for puppies that shelters can’t meet? The AVMA did a widespread study on this. Are you naive enough to think that if a family can’t find a puppy in a shelter/rescue that they will settle for a 40 lb mixed-breed, young adult, black in color (the most common dog in shelters)? No, they won’t. They will go to a pet store and apologize up and down for doing it but will say they tried to find a puppy in a shelter.

[Cagney]

There are people on this thread who I am not sure I would trust knowing where I live or knowing my home phone. What has happened in this thread is, frankly, scary. I gave my work phone and will speak with anyone and tell them individually who I am, with them disclosing who they are as well. Safety first.

[Bacardi1]

[QUOTE=godiva13;6543921]
If you are so proud of your breeding program why do you not want to disclose what the breed is?[/QUOTE]

THIS!!!

If your breeding program is SO above-board & on the up-&-up, why are you hiding the breed?

Something stinks like dead fish here - & I think YOU know it. I’ve yet to come across a REPUTABLE breeder who was shy about promoting both their breed & their program. Oh - who’s asking for your location & phone number? Although again - strangely enough, REPUTABLE breeders actually WANT their location & phone number out & about.

How strange.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=Cagney;6544370]

With the rhetoric going on in this thread, no wonder HSUS is winning. Twenty years from now, there will no longer be purebred dog breeding. That may make many of you happy. Until then, the bullying of responsible dog breeders makes more of them give it up. That leads to people going to pet stores to buy puppies–they are left with no choice. Do you realize that there is a high demand for puppies that shelters can’t meet? The AVMA did a widespread study on this. Are you naive enough to think that if a family can’t find a puppy in a shelter/rescue that they will settle for a 40 lb mixed-breed, young adult, black in color (the most common dog in shelters)? No, they won’t. They will go to a pet store and apologize up and down for doing it but will say they tried to find a puppy in a shelter.[/QUOTE]

What are you even talking about? Several of the posters on this thread (myself included) support good breeders of AKC recognized breeds (and other registries and breed clubs). Quite a number of us own and show purebred dogs, several posters on this board breed AKC registered, show quality dogs.

This is not a thread about “breeding v. rescues” it’s a thread about good breeders v. bad breeders. Anyone who breeds more than 10 or so litters a year would be someone I’d would consider very carefully before I’d buy a puppy from them. They might be the greatest breeder and champion of their breed…or they might be a puppy mill, or a “puppy mill” in disguise. That was how the thread started, and the majority of people considered a breeder responsible for 30+ litters a year to be a puppy mill. Sorry if you don’t agree, but I’d hardly call that bullying.

[Cagney]

What is your name Bacardi1? What are your credentials?

Something is odd in how you and others are hounding me?

No one has yet given me a reason for why the breed that I have matters?

You just want to know my name—then call me! I repeat, I have posted the number for anyone who doesn’t want to hide behind their snide remarks. I mean YOU Bacardi1–or give me your phone number and I will pay for the call.

[Bacardi1]

Wow - whackorama Cagney!!!

Again - why are you so against listing your breed, name of kennel, or anything else that normal reputable dog breeders want out there.

I’m neither selling nor promoting anything, thus there’s no reason for me to post my name/address/phone number. And I didn’t make any “snide” remarks - asking for what you breed & your kennel isn’t considered “snide” by reputable breeders. Frankly, I don’t give a rat’s patootie what your name is.

Me thinks you are protesting WAY too much. Folks like you are folks who have something to hide.

[Mosey_2003]

I called the number, it’s “not a working number.” What now?

[Bacardi1]

Uh - did I miss something? Why are you calling a phone number for a kennel where you don’t even know the dog(s) that they’re breeding? WTF does “what now?” mean?? What number? And what does “what now” mean? Are you in some sort of contract with this person?

Honest to God it never ceases to amaze me how many people on these boards are so dumbass stupid as to get roped into so many scams.

[Mosey_2003]

I was curious. She said if you were curious to call the number, so I called.

[Bacardi1]

“What now?”

She’s obviously a fly-by-night breeder.

No reputable breeder - AKC or not - would keep both the breed they’re breeding, their kennel location, or their contact info SECRET. Period. And she KNOWS THIS. The fact that she’s getting more & more aggravated as folks ask more about her situation tells all - & again she KNOWS THIS, & is just getting more & more pissed off. Eventually we’ll find out who she is, which probably pisses her off even MORE - lol!!! Since it will most likely NOT show a good light on her operation.

This person is most likely nothing but a puppy mill breeder. Otherwise she’d be above board about her breed, kennel/location, & contact info.

[Mosey_2003]

“What now?” as in, “What cock-a-maimy excuse is she going to use next?” I think perhaps you didn’t understand what I was getting at there…

[Sonesta]

Well, now this is interesting. If you do a Google search of the phone number she gave, you get to this very telling link.

http://whocallsme.com/Phone-Number.aspx/6108408147

[Lin]

Great, I hate this, her posts seemed so reasonable.

Feel free to pm me updates. I’m not qualified to give opinions

[GotGait]

[QUOTE=pony baloney;6519447]
There’s a Sheba Inu breeder near where I live in NJ that is considered a puppy mill. On their website now, there are four litters available from July to October. They ship anywhere and accept PayPal for non-refundable deposits. No mention of health guarantees, no show history, and I don’t believe they’re members of the AKC. I’ve seen quite a few negative reviews about the place relating to the temperment of the dogs and their lack of human interaction. Also, they often have “Kennel Help Wanted” ads in the local paper.

Now they’re also breeding Alaskan Malamutes and Golden Retreivers. Their website has lots of cute photos of tiny puppies that are available, which are irresistable. It’s almost like online shoe shopping–so many to choose from.[/QUOTE]

I know exactly who you are talking about. Yuck breeder. They’ve had an “oops” with one of their Shiba studs and, I want to say one of their Mals, but I can’t remember right now - they have so many breeds.

ETA: Oops, it was a Shiba/Min Pin litter! Can you imagine?? They also advertise Mame Shibas which are runty Shibas and a serious fault.

[HenryisBlaisin]

Cagney…are all of your breeding dogs champions of record? If not, do they hold performance titles? If neither, why do you breed these particular dogs? Do you require all puppies who are not of equal or super quality to their parents be spayed by their new owners? How many of the pups stay intact?

If you are truly aboveboard, please answer these questions publicly so that we can all understand more of your philosophy and practices? Surely as a responsible breeder you don’t mind educating others about your establishment.

[BLBGP]

Multiple studies showed that the price you pay for a pet has absolutely no bearing on how you will treat it, care for it, etc. That’s the backing behind so many progressive shelters offering fee-waived cat adoptions. Many, many, many animals that folks paid thousands of dollars for wind up in shelters. And many folks who found a kitten on the street go way above and beyond with medical treatment no matter the cost.

What is the reason for breeding so many each year?

And I know the breed is super-secret but if it is rat terrier…? Wow. There are thousands of those in shelters right now. One of our more common unwanted breeds, at least here in California.

[GraceLikeRain]

Hang on people. Let’s slow down a second.

Kryswyn came here and started a thread about a breeder who is a vet but bred 30 litters last year.

Cagney claims she is a repo vet who whelped 30 litters but did not own all of them.

So we have a vet defending her practices because she is whelping litters as a repo vet. As of yet we don’t know the kennel, the proof of her dogs success, how many litters she breeds, where she is located, the conditions her animals are kept in, etc.

The number provided is one that is tied to shady things and is certainly not the number for a vet.

Do we know for sure that the person Kryswyn was referring to is actually this new poster and not someone trying to stir the pot?

How come Kryswyn hasn’t gone ahead and outed this breeder if she actually has proof that this vet bred 30 litters.

So many questions. So little answers. Can anyone clarify things for me?

Cagney. If you really are a reputable vet producing outstanding dogs then why not share your kennel? At this point people are imaging the worse but truthfully I think we are all hoping for the best. None of us want for you to be an irresponsible breeder but until we have some sort of support for an alternative then there is nothing to fight that assumption.

At a minimum why not provide the actual numbers you produce if it isn’t 30 litters. How many litters did you whelp last year that you owned or co-owned?