How do you determine a Puppy Mill?

[Cagney]

Pat yourselves on the back for your harassment

I am Candace Lundin, DVM, MS, CMPP, owner of Dog Branch Farm and DBF Russell Terriers. I breed shorty Jacks in northern Virginia. I was an equine surgeon at the Marion duPont Scott Equine Medical Center. I probably have done colic surgery on some of your horses. I also spent 6 years as Editor of the Journal of the Amercian Veterinary Medical Assn and American Journal of Veterinary Research. I am the author of the document that became part of the Federal Response Plan of FEMA to allow tax payers money to be used for the care of companion animals during a federally declared disaster. I coordinated the emergency efforts of Veterinary Medical Assistance Teams during Hurrican Marilyn that hit St. Thomas about 15 years ago. I bred and own the first 2 AKC Champion Russell Terriers. The breed was recognized June 27, 2012. The breed also remains in the Foundation Stock Service for 5 years while we develop the gene pool. I also own a Russell who went Group 3 from the 6-9 month old puppy class and was Best in Show puppy at a major show. My husband used to breed and show English Springer Spaniels and had the top stud dog in the country in 1986. He then got too busy with horses and gave up dog showing. We breed, raise and train Thbd for racing and retrain for steeplechase, fox hunting, and hunter/jumper. When I started with the Jacks, we were reluctant to get into showing because of the politics and nastiness that comes out in people. But, we decided to go ahead and my husband will likely become a registered professional handler.

I was avoiding posting my name because some of you are likely to ignore every fact except that I whelp a large number of litters, and if you put your nasty spin on it and then gossip about the lies you invent and include my name, then I will be forced to hire an attorney and sue for libel. But, I am fed up with this. Go ahead—attorneys will get richer. But, when we go to court, I am betting everything I have that my credentials will outweigh yours.

[Cagney]

I never claimed to be a repro vet. I said that repro vets whelp far more than 30 litters per year.

[Cagney]

I do not know why the number is not working–it is at my office at Complete Healthcare Communications in Chadds Ford, PA.
Our horse farm is in Round Hill, Virginia.
What else do you want? My first born child?
Pleased with yourselves?
Think this was not bullying??? It sure the f&$%k was!!!

[GraceLikeRain]

Cagney I feel like you are the one putting yourself in the bad light.

Your evasion, decision to give out a false number (or one that was not working at a minimum), and assumptions are what gave this thread fuel. We “gossiped” trying to figure out what the heck was going on. It’s a pretty common occurrence when you throw together a bunch of concerned dog owners and limited information.

Your background is incredibly impressive. Whelping 30 litters and owning 30 litters are two very different things. If you had calmly explained this and given some background I don’t think anyone would have looked twice. This whole “drama” could have been resolved in a single post. I don’t know why you choose to make this into a bigger deal than it needed to be but I don’t think it was very tasteful.

As someone with so much experience in the dog and horse industry I would think that you would have a better understanding about how animal people work. We will search and prod until we have answers and then once we are satisfied that someone is reputable we will full-heartedly support them. This could have been an amazing opportunity to show off your dogs and explain your experience as a breeder and vet. I’m sad that you choose to take a different path. It certainly doesn’t do much to dispel misconceptions about breeders and the AKC.

[Cagney]

My very first post explained that I whelped 30 litters, not owned 30 litters. The attacks continued.

Who is the Moderator for this Forum? This should have been stopped. I asked it to be stopped by PM.

Some of you may be concerned dog owners, but others of you are like a flash mob–out of control.

I would like the names of everyone who was involved, in case this goes further.

[Mosey_2003]

You’re getting a little over-excited there. Nobody is going to come mob your house and your repeated complaints of bullying are overly dramatic. We just wanted to know what kind of dogs you’re breeding. And I rather doubt this will end in a lawsuit :rolleyes:

[GraceLikeRain]

[QUOTE=Cagney;6545821]
My very first post explained that I whelped 30 litters, not owned 30 litters. The attacks continued.

Who is the Moderator for this Forum? This should have been stopped. I asked it to be stopped by PM.

Some of you may be concerned dog owners, but others of you are like a flash mob–out of control.

I would like the names of everyone who was involved, in case this goes further.[/QUOTE]

Cagney…the crux of your argument is that you “whelped” 30 litters last year which is different than owning 30 litters.

According to your website in 2011 you had 40 litters of puppies. In 2012 you have 9 litters on the ground and 6 more planned or confirmed. Your website shows these litters as your dogs or dogs that you co-own. Even if most of these bitches were immediately sent back to their co-owner, that is still a whole lot of dogs with your breeding produced each year.

Also, having the #1 and #2 russell a bit misleading since there are only 3 russells ranked nationally. At number 1 your bitch has 10 points which in my breed of choice wouldn’t even get you into the top 50 ranking.

For the record. I haven’t received a PM from you so I guess you are referring to someone else?

I just want to understand this situation. No flash mobbing here (I’m not a terribly coordinated dancer;))

[Cagney]

Wow–you can’t stop, can you? Disecting my web site now?

My Russells got Group 3 and Group 4 the first couple weeks we showed in Terrier Group, which if you know anything about dog showing, you know the Terrier Group is a tough one to crack.

I ask again, who is the Moderator?

[Alagirl]

@Cagney;6545821

My very first post explained that I whelped 30 litters, not owned 30 litters. The attacks continued.

Who is the Moderator for this Forum? This should have been stopped. I asked it to be stopped by PM.

Some of you may be concerned dog owners, but others of you are like a flash mob–out of control.

I would like the names of everyone who was involved, in case this goes further.

Well, you know, I have no dog in this fight…but good old Shakespeare said it best: Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.

And coming here, biting everybody’s head off is not getting you charm points.

Alas, maybe after the mydol kicks in you see the point: The forum members did - in the majority - not fall off a turnip truck. Their combined experience stops somewhere maybe short of political office, but very short.

Many have been around the block, be it kennel (real and imagined but with prefix) or a barn, breeding or other. A few are actual veterinarians, others had to doctor enough to almost qualify for one.
Ok: Barney lied to you, you are not that special snowflake.

Ok, now, if you had just said ‘hey, I don’t own all of them, I co-own the dogs’ a lot of people would have probably nodded knowingly, and let it go.
But
not telling who you are, what you breed and snapping at everybody?
See Shakespeare…and the mods here do have a day job as well. I am sure they will tell you where you have been wrong eventually.

So far the impression who have created by your appearance: disagreeable person with whom I would not care to have business dealings, be it professionally or with the dogs, and believe e, I have talked to a bunch of snarky dog people, you pretty much take the dog biscuit…

it’s best to be thought of as foolish and remain quiet than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt…

[GraceLikeRain]

[QUOTE=Cagney;6545861]
Wow–you can’t stop, can you? Disecting my web site now?

My Russells got Group 3 and Group 4 the first couple weeks we showed in Terrier Group, which if you know anything about dog showing, you know the Terrier Group is a tough one to crack.

I ask again, who is the Moderator?[/QUOTE]

My puppy went group 3 his second weekend of showing in the Terrier Group at 7 months. He also went winners dog to the number one ranked dog for my breed (300+ points as opposed to 10 points) his first day of showing.

Your point?

[Alagirl]

@GraceLikeRain;6545880

My puppy went group 3 his second weekend of showing in the Terrier Group at 7 months. He also went winners dog to the number one ranked dog for my breed (300+ points as opposed to 10 points) his first day of showing.

Your point?

so you mean to tell her your dog bucked off her honor student?

[GraceLikeRain]

[QUOTE=Alagirl;6545881]
so you mean to tell her your dog bucked off her honor student?[/QUOTE]

:lol:

[Mosey_2003]

[QUOTE=Alagirl;6545881]
so you mean to tell her your dog bucked off her honor student?[/QUOTE]

snort

People have been “attacked” here much more viciously without screaming lawsuit and “Who are the Moderators?” before. Get a grip, ma’am.

[Cagney]

I stated the truth–that I had the #1 and #2 in my breed. You wanted to argue that. It’s a newly recognized breed.

This is a lose-lose situation with this group, as I suspected from the beginning, after seeing the ludicrous insinuations, but silly me, I thought that I could set the record straight with my first posting. Silly me, the more I gave, the more you wanted until then I am said to be the one at blame for gving too much information. I am damned if I do, damned if I don’t.

Again, who is the Moderator? Where is the Moderator?

[Alagirl]

@Cagney;6545916

Again, who is the Moderator? Where is the Moderator?

Surreal theater.
I am loving it.

Btw, the best thing to do when you find yourself in the bottom of a hole is to stop digging.

[HenryisBlaisin]

Cagney, a lot of posters asked you some legitimate questions about your operation so that we could learn about it. Instead of answering them in an adult manner, you took offense. I ask again, isn’t part of being a responsible breeder educating the public about your breed and breeding practices in general? In fact, your breed club, of which I’m sure you are probably a member, says on their Website, " Our members and breeders will be more than happy to assist you in learning more about the Russell Terrier." Don’t you WANT people to understand how your breed is improved by your lines? Most breeders are happy to discuss this with people new to their breed.

Had you addressed these legitimate questions in a professional manner, it’s likely that many posters who you claim are “bullying” you would have walked away with a better understanding of both your kennel and your breed. Instead, you came onto the thread on the defensive and made no effort to answer questions or to educate us. Personally, I would not do business with you if I were looking for a Russell, but not because of your breeding operation; I don’t know enough about that to make an informed decision, because you haven’t answered our questions. Rather, it’s because of the way you presented yourself on this thread. If you had calmly and accurately answered them, it’s likely that many people would be more understanding.

[Mosey_2003]

Just what, exactly, do you think a Moderator is going to do for you? This is a public forum. The Moderators can be PM’d, find a post, like those that are sticky’d at the top of the individual forums, click on Moderator 1, and PM. You want to come in guns blazing and then expect us to help you ‘tattle’ on us? That’s rich…

[Cagney]

Did you not read all the posts and vicious things being said about me before I even joined the discussion?

[Cagney]

I PMs the Moderator yesterday but never got a response. Have you not read some of the inflammatory posts—posts made before I even joined the discussion? I guess I am not used to these crazy forums where people are just plain mean.

[Mosey_2003]

Well yes, I read them. They were speculation. You could have calmly cleared it up. Instead, you went psycho defensive and have made yourself look much worse. It’s people talking on an internet forum, not that big a deal. Honestly, if you had never posted nobody would have known who you were at all and it would have died out. Get over it, sh*t happens. Sometimes the Moderators take vacations.