How do you fit a western saddle to horse and rider?

[J-Lu]

Hi all,

I’m and english rider and I know about english saddles, trees, and how to fit them to horse and rider. I know some very nice but new horse owners who ride western, but have purchased saddles based on “how nice they look”. Unfortunately, these saddles don’t fit the riders or the horses.

Can anyone point to any resources or give tips on how to fit a western saddle to a horse’s body type and also to the rider’s body type? I don’t think their horse’s saddles fit them or their horses very well, and I think it is hindering their comfort.

Thanks!

[Pocket_Pony]

Horsesaddleshop.com and rodnikkel.com are good places to start. I find it much more difficult than an English saddle.

[beau159]

I agree with PocketPony in that I feel that Western saddles are much harder to fit because you cannot see as well what is going on with the tree, and you cannot make modifications to a Western saddle like you can to an English.

If you know how to fit an English saddle, the basic fundamentals are the same. So it’s more of educating yourself on the different parts of a Western saddle and how those should complement the horse. Here’s a few websites with great info:

http://saddlemakers.org/id193.htm

http://www.rodnikkel.com/content/tree-and-saddle-fitting/factors-that-affect-tree-fit/

Also, there is NO STANDARD in the Western industry. You can have two saddlemakers that both have a full quarter horse bar tree with a 6.5" gullet … and they can fit 100% different.

It’s simply trial and error. You can kind of “know” if your horse is going to need a semi or full, to give you a starting point, but you just have to try on saddles.

My rule of thumb

1. Fit the horse
2. Fit the rider

Of course, you can have the best fit in the world for the horse, and it doesn’t do you any good if it doesn’t fit the rider. It’s got to fit both.

For the rider, a general rule of thumb is that you want 2 or 3 fingers from the thigh to the swell, as this picture on Google depicts.

Roughly, a Western seat size needed will be 2" smaller than the equivalent English saddle. Again, general guideline. So if you ride in a 17" English, you’ll want about a 15" Western.

Also for the rider, you want the saddle positioned for the what the rider is going to do. There are differences between a trail riding saddle, or a cutting saddle, or barrel racing, etc. So the type of saddle will also depend on what the rider wants to do, and what body/leg position will work best. It’s really not always a perfect heel-hip-ear alignment, depending on what you are doing.

[J-Lu]

Thanks, everyone! I forwarded all of these links and info to my friend.

She is riding in a Circle Y saddle that puts her in a chair seat, and that makes it difficult for her to ride. I put my dressage saddle on her horse, and her horse and she loved it. Her two horses are small (a ~14.2 or 14.3 hh Southern Range (so fine-boned) mustang, and a ~15hh fine-boned “Heinz 57”) and I wonder if her saddles are just too big. She just wants to do trail riding and very light arena work.

[Palm_Beach]

[QUOTE=J-Lu;8865344]
Thanks, everyone! I forwarded all of these links and info to my friend.

She is riding in a Circle Y saddle that puts her in a chair seat, and that makes it difficult for her to ride. I put my dressage saddle on her horse, and her horse and she loved it. Her two horses are small (a ~14.2 or 14.3 hh Southern Range (so fine-boned) mustang, and a ~15hh fine-boned “Heinz 57”) and I wonder if her saddles are just too big. She just wants to do trail riding and very light arena work.[/QUOTE]

You fit the tree to the horse and the seat to the rider. What do you mean by “too big?” Is the tree too wide, the saddle too long for the horse’s back, the seat too big for the rider?

[pAin_t_Misbehavin]

Circle Y is one of only two brands stocked by my local tack store. I agree they put one in a chair seat. Stirrups are set too far forward.

I’m no expert on western saddle fitting, but here’s what I did: I went to horsesaddleshop.com and downloaded their gullet templates. Then I got an artist’s curve and did a wither tracing on my horse (2" behind the shoulder). Then I matched up the two to see what size gullet came closest to fitting my horse.

I ordered a Fabtron Trail Saddle in the size gullet I needed. Fabtron put the stirrups underneath the rider’s feet, and they make synthetic saddles which I like because they’re lightweight.

Then I put the saddle on the horse, no cinch, and evaluated the fit. It bridged, so I got one of these shim pads with inserts to correct the bridging.

After that, I put a clean white sheet on the horse, tacked up, and rode in it for 20 minutes. Lifted saddle and pad off carefully and looked at dirt marks. They looked pretty even and there was a white line down the center so I knew it wasn’t resting on the spine.

[J-Lu]

[QUOTE=Palm Beach;8865828]
You fit the tree to the horse and the seat to the rider. What do you mean by “too big?” Is the tree too wide, the saddle too long for the horse’s back, the seat too big for the rider?[/QUOTE]

I think too long for the horses’ backs. The part of the saddle that is supposed to be behind the shoulder (according to the above links) seems to sit on top of the shoulder. The skirts are also long and stiff and I think maybe press on the loin. The circle Y might be too wide but I can’t judge myself.

Her vet was just out for spring shots and didn’t notice anything wrong with her horses. Neither appear to have overt back issues. I rode the Heinz 57 the other day in her barrel racing saddle and the horse was uuuuuuuuuuncomfortable. All first signs point to the saddle.

Her mustang goes ten times better in my dressage saddle, suggesting that her western saddles just don’t fit that horse well. She’s willing to sell her saddles and get one that fits, but she is just now understanding the JOY that is saddle fitting. As I mentioned in my first post, I think she thought one can just buy a saddle that looks nice and put it on a horse. Her horses didn’t go well and her Heinz 57 outwardly objects (I rode him the other night in her western saddle). He’s newly and professionally started, it appears to all that the tack isn’t fitting.

[J-Lu]

Thanks pAint Misbehavin’. I’m skeptical about her doing her own wither trace only because I once did the full saddle measurement traces with an artists curve and then I had a professional saddle fitter out. Our curves didn’t match. Guess whose curves were more accurate. :lol: But that certainly couldn’t hurt her and at least will put her in the ballpark of measurements for her horses. I have a curve she can borrow and that’s a place for her to start. Thanks!

[J-Lu]

I really appreciate everyone’s responses and wish I could give more intelligent answers! I’m “Western Challenged”. But I can throw a Houlihan! :winkgrin:

[DressageFancy]

For what it is worth. I have found that the older saddles seem to have better tree fit on most horses. I have to wonder if the tree makers of 30,40 years ago themselves rode more western “type” horses rather than our “modern” quarter horses and thus were able to fit a better range of horse backs? If your friend has other friends with an older, say, Simco or Big Horn saddle that they would let you try on the horses that might also give you a better feel for what these horses need in saddle fit. Myself, I have two Simcos that seem to fit everything but the modern bulldog AQHA horses.

[js]

I copied this because it makes a good point about the tree placement and not confusing this with the leather that is in front of the actual tree. Also be sure you are using adequate saddle padding under the saddle. Western usual has much thicker pads then what you are used to with English.

1. Saddle position: Most saddle trees (and definitely our Mountain Horse saddle trees) are designed to sit behind the horse’s shoulder blade. That’s why, when you do the fitting, we ask you to sit the tree 2 fingers back from the shoulder blade when your horse is standing squarely on the ground. That’s where the TREE is designed to sit so that it does not impede your horse’s shoulder motion. Sitting it too far forward will result in poor saddle fit and an uncomfortable fit for your horse. Notice that I emphasize TREE, not saddle. The tree should sit behind the shoulder blade, the leather and fleece on the saddle should extend over the shoulder. If you put the entire saddle behind the shoulder blade, that is too far back-- and the front of the saddle skirting will dig into the shoulder and usually the saddle will pop up in the rear. There is usually 3-4 inches of leather and fleece in front of the tree. (Interestingly, most mule riders automatically sit the tree in the right place…most horse riders put it too far forward!)

[NoSuchPerson]

@js;8867874

…(Interestingly, most mule riders automatically sit the tree in the right place…most horse riders put it too far forward!)

When I first got into mules, I was advised to put the saddle where I thought it looked right, then slide it back just to the point where I thought it looked too far back, and it would be just right.

The reason I was given for this is that mules tend to have more backward motion in the scapula than horses do.

[beau159]

[QUOTE=J-Lu;8867165]
I think too long for the horses’ backs. The part of the saddle that is supposed to be behind the shoulder (according to the above links) seems to sit on top of the shoulder. The skirts are also long and stiff and I think maybe press on the loin. The circle Y might be too wide but I can’t judge myself. [/QUOTE]

If you know how to fit an English saddle, the mechanics are the same. You don’t want a tree that is too long for the horse. And you want the shoulder to move freely. Etc. So you can at least build on that education.

Just much tougher to see exactly what is going on under all the leather on a Western saddle!

IF you can get your hands on a bare tree for a manufacture, that is the way to good. Unfortunately, a lot of times you can’t.

This is an example of a bare tree I tried on my horse, that clearly had too narrow of a bar angle, and would dig into his back if used. You can also see how the tree is bridging in the center of his back, and not making contact at all. You should have even contact all throughout the tree, for even pressure.

Sometimes it’s nice to see what doesn’t fit, to understand how it should fit.

[QUOTE=J-Lu;8867165]
She’s willing to sell her saddles and get one that fits, but she is just now understanding the JOY that is saddle fitting. [/QUOTE]

Let the “joy” begin! :lol: I think I tried about 8 or 9 saddles with my Red until I found “the one”.

And then once you find one that fits … doesn’t guarantee that it always will!