I am looking at a horse who is described as liver chestnut. He doesn’t look as dark as other liver chestnuts I have seen. He is just sort of a dark chestnut. He also has white hairs running through his coat.
His sire’s side has dark bays for the first two generations back then blacks and bays and dark bays for the next couple of generations.
The dam’s side has chestnuts for the first two generations and then chestnuts and bays after that–one gray.
Just curious. He is an OTTB.
I own a liver chestnit Dutch WB. Sire was Wolfgang (bay) and Dam was a Black-bay.
Most of the time she looks like a dark chestnut - but then again she is out all year log from sun-up to sun-down. Before I purchased her she was in the Netherlenads and was definately a Liver - she just doesn’t look it now.
Moving to Kentucky in the spring so I’m betting after a year she’ll be more Liver colored than red. :yes:
My younger TB mare(OTTB) sounds like what you are describing. She is a dark reddish chestnut with some light roaning thru her coat. She has a lighter colored spot on her right shoulder. She also has black hair in her mane and tail. She is not what I consider a liver chestnut, but she definitely is much darker than my other TB mare. I’m not sure the breeding that ends up with a liver chestnut. Here is a picture of my older mare https://flic.kr/p/aY92we Here is a picture of the younger one. https://flic.kr/p/imxDri
No genetic guru here but a friends liver chestnut changes shades from lighter to darker during year. No white hairs in coat, though.
I have heard that liver chestnuts change color a bit during their lives or at least during the year. Most I have seen have lighter manes and tails.
Miss Mare is a liver chestnut. TBxPercheron. No white at all lots of black hair mixed in with the chestnut. her dapples look black most of the time https://www.facebook.com/crystal.young.7547#!/photo.php?fbid=525842750785933&set=t.100000806372676&type=1&theater
She has parts of her tail that are light and big chunks that are black.
I don’t notice much fading in summer and when body clipped color does not change much
I had a TB mare who was a liver chestnut. I took it so for granted at the time (I was 12yo) and now I would soooo love to have her and gaze upon her. She was a medum dark brown, not red. I have pics of her somewhere. Miss that mare. Le Sign. Don’t know her genetics, so I can’t help there. Just wanted to chime in that I had one.
OP, if I were you I’d go ask your question on the Sport Horse Breeding forum. Might work, might not, but those people are most likely to know what colors and dilutions combine to what kind of results.
[QUOTE=Valentina_32926;7838174]
I own a liver chestnit Dutch WB. Sire was Wolfgang (bay) and Dam was a Black-bay.
Most of the time she looks like a dark chestnut - but then again she is out all year log from sun-up to sun-down. Before I purchased her she was in the Netherlenads and was definately a Liver - she just doesn’t look it now.
Moving to Kentucky in the spring so I’m betting after a year she’ll be more Liver colored than red. :yes:[/QUOTE]
I have a liver chestnut out of Wolfgang too!! And I agree, he was much more ‘liver’ when I bought him (in Holland) than he is here. I am unsure of his dam’s coloring however…
The first thought that came to my mind when I read this thread was “buy one. I think it is very, very difficult to breed for one intentionally.” Now i see that you are asking about how to determine if a horse is liver or “regular” chestnut.
I am not really sure to be honest because i think as stunning as liver chestnuts are, the color varies a lot, and so does “regular” chestnut so there is probably some overlap in identification. It is also more prevalent in some breeds than others (quite a few liver morgans and saddlebreds for example). I had a liver chestnut saddlebred gelding for 12 years. He lived outside at times in TN, NC and IL and never faded to red - he pretty much stayed that deep burgundy color till the day he died at almost 30. On the other hand, some livers I have seen fade quite dramatically and look like an entirely different horse each season.
My liver TB has a much darker mane and tail. She was pretty dark when she came off the track but now living outside she looks more typically orange.
This is mine: https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10406942_10204429547326421_7213416667501382866_n.jpg?oh=ba69fb831df72c1ffdd040eea9668a07&oe=54D5502A He’s occasionally mistaken for a light bay or brown especially in dim lighting but his mane and tail are actually dark brown mixed with red. I don’t have a great picture that shows it, but he has darker brown points as well. His parents are both chestnut.
My old mare is a similar color-- her sire was a very red chestnut and her dam was a dark bay who dappled out in the summer. https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/61594_10201263674821587_823368495_n.jpg?oh=18a213b88627e2f17841e305486c08e9&oe=54D50703
Her sire was a true liver, dam was chestnut with flaxen.
I had a friend who bought an orange chestnut mare, and after changing her feed the mare got really dark. I don’t know if I’d call her a liver chestnut now, but she’s super close to it.
Red (chestnut) is recessive, so it can hide away for many generations until you have a horse which receives one recessive red gene from each parent.
The determining factor behind the various shades of chestnut is not known. A liver chestnut is not genetically distinct from a bright red or orangy chestnut.
According to this site “LIVER CHESTNUT IS NOT GENETICALLY CHESTNUT.”
http://www.spiletta.com/UTHOF/hippology/genetic.html
?
Breed for a chestnut & cross your fingers. 
[QUOTE=furlong47;7842830]
A liver chestnut is not genetically distinct from a bright red or orangy chestnut.[/QUOTE]
Of course it is, we just have not identified the loci
[QUOTE=alto;7845054]
Of course it is, we just have not identified the loci[/QUOTE]
Perhaps I should have said “at this time” or “based on what we know now” there is no way to determine a genetic distinction.
My TB is liver chestnut. He does change color a LOT throughout the year and from year to year. One summer, he almost looked roan on his body. His mane and tail are definitely darker than the rest of him, and his tail has a true black “core” in the center that you can only see if you spread his tail hairs out. Very interesting. And he dapples unbelievably in Spring and Fall. Absolutely gorgeous (not that I’m biased!).
His sire is dark bay/possible true black (Devil His Due). His dam is chestnut. On his sire side, he has Halo in his pedigree. Halo is listed with the jockey club as true black.
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