How do you know it's time to sell? Having a having a crisis of consciousness

[horsegal301]

Hi All, Looking for some feedback here and I’m struggling with one of my horses. I sure could use some help.

I purchased a second horse a few years ago (2018) to show along with my other, with the intention to show in different divisions at breed shows, and eventually to drive pairs in ADS shows.

I will preface this in saying he has been a great halter horse, does showmanship, the mini version of hunters, jumpers, and in hand trail. He is fantastic when lunge lining and line driving, knows voice commands and is an incredibly personable horse. He really is smart as a whip. He can do parades (in hand) with firetrucks and ambulance sirens all over the place. He can handle kids all over him at fairs - he’s a great breed ambassador in that regard. We also live on a busy, fast road, so he is well equipped in handling tractor trailers buzzing by him at 50mph+ while working.

When I purchased him in 2018, I was told he was driven, but there was no evidence of that, so I found a local trainer and worked with him all summer to get my horse hitched. He was going really well all that summer into late fall and then we had to stop. I drove him spring-fall in 2019 and he was good and I realized any time he’s just being great is a huge win since we’ve only been going at it for a year at this point.

By the end of summer 2020, we were able to get him to the point of driving with my other horse as a pair, but it was like something in his brain at the end of that fall switched. One day when we were driving pairs, it was like he just became a different horse. He became very nervous and wouldn’t listen to voice commands. Jigging and not wanting to stand when being driven single and in pair. He was so forward it was hard to drive them together and we had to unhitch because he freaked out at seemingly nothing - no bee sting, no pain, nothing caught. I wasn’t sure what was up, so we stopped driving pairs and I went back to single again.

It was the same behavior. Jigging, not wanting to stand, and especially as a single, he was too focused on being separated from his friends. I decided to start all over again from the beginning in what time I had left until winter. Had a vet see him, nothing wrong with teeth, no ulcer issues, no issues with harness fit. We made great strides and then by 2021, we were able to do few open driving shows and breed shows in early summer. He was still not happy being away from friends, but I also wasn’t getting a chance to devote a lot of time to him as I didn’t feel confident enough to hook him back up as a pair, so I was focusing on my other horse driving single at shows, and getting him fit enough for that, so I wasn’t doing a ton with my new horse.

I did not show him in 2022, but he was going alright. Once again, I didn’t have a ton of time to dedicate to keeping him on a regular schedule since I was focused on my show season with my other horse. However, it felt like aside from him definitely having separation anxiety, he was making great strides in the times I could drive him.

Fast forward to this year, I told myself all winter long this was the year he would be the main horse I show and my husband could show our other horse. I was really happy with how he was going last year with minimal work. However, it seems as though his separation anxiety has gotten worse, and in turn, the driving is starting to revert back to the same issue from a couple years ago. Jigging, not wanting to stand, seemingly fearful for no reason. I’ve tried driving in the pasture with his friends in the next one over, driving in the pastures with them, and driving where he can’t see them, as well as lunging and line driving to get him focused on me first and then hitching, but it’s like his desire to see and be with his friends totally overcomes him and it really feels like his brain switches off from trusting and listening to me.

It’s been a few years of owning him and we’ve only done a handful of shows and it just seems like he would be better suited in a place where he can be consistently worked. I don’t really trust him in a pairs situation since I can’t get him to be consistent as a single horse.

However, I just can’t quite seem to feel like I’m up to parting with him because he really is a nice horse to have in the barn, however, horses are absolutely a luxury for us and I got him for a purpose that he can’t really fulfill and I’m not sure I just want a pasture ornament – however I’m incredibly concerned about selling him considering how easily minis can get into bad situations.

I can’t tell if I should contact a trainer and have them work with him for a while if we can afford it, or if I should just chalk this up to me not having the time he needs to be a successful driving horse.

[Scribbler]

@horsegal301

Hi All, Looking for some feedback here and I’m struggling with one of my horses. I sure could use some help.

I purchased a second horse a few years ago (2018) to show along with my other, with the intention to show in different divisions at breed shows, and eventually to drive pairs in ADS shows.

I will preface this in saying he has been a great halter horse, does showmanship, the mini version of hunters, jumpers, and in hand trail. He is fantastic when lunge lining and line driving, knows voice commands and is an incredibly personable horse. He really is smart as a whip. He can do parades (in hand) with firetrucks and ambulance sirens all over the place. He can handle kids all over him at fairs - he’s a great breed ambassador in that regard. We also live on a busy, fast road, so he is well equipped in handling tractor trailers buzzing by him at 50mph+ while working.

When I purchased him in 2018, I was told he was driven, but there was no evidence of that, so I found a local trainer and worked with him all summer to get my horse hitched. He was going really well all that summer into late fall and then we had to stop. I drove him spring-fall in 2019 and he was good and I realized any time he’s just being great is a huge win since we’ve only been going at it for a year at this point.

By the end of summer 2020, we were able to get him to the point of driving with my other horse as a pair, but it was like something in his brain at the end of that fall switched. One day when we were driving pairs, it was like he just became a different horse. He became very nervous and wouldn’t listen to voice commands. Jigging and not wanting to stand when being driven single and in pair. He was so forward it was hard to drive them together and we had to unhitch because he freaked out at seemingly nothing - no bee sting, no pain, nothing caught. I wasn’t sure what was up, so we stopped driving pairs and I went back to single again.

It was the same behavior. Jigging, not wanting to stand, and especially as a single, he was too focused on being separated from his friends. I decided to start all over again from the beginning in what time I had left until winter. Had a vet see him, nothing wrong with teeth, no ulcer issues, no issues with harness fit. We made great strides and then by 2021, we were able to do few open driving shows and breed shows in early summer. He was still not happy being away from friends, but I also wasn’t getting a chance to devote a lot of time to him as I didn’t feel confident enough to hook him back up as a pair, so I was focusing on my other horse driving single at shows, and getting him fit enough for that, so I wasn’t doing a ton with my new horse.

I did not show him in 2022, but he was going alright. Once again, I didn’t have a ton of time to dedicate to keeping him on a regular schedule since I was focused on my show season with my other horse. However, it felt like aside from him definitely having separation anxiety, he was making great strides in the times I could drive him.

Fast forward to this year, I told myself all winter long this was the year he would be the main horse I show and my husband could show our other horse. I was really happy with how he was going last year with minimal work. However, it seems as though his separation anxiety has gotten worse, and in turn, the driving is starting to revert back to the same issue from a couple years ago. Jigging, not wanting to stand, seemingly fearful for no reason. I’ve tried driving in the pasture with his friends in the next one over, driving in the pastures with them, and driving where he can’t see them, as well as lunging and line driving to get him focused on me first and then hitching, but it’s like his desire to see and be with his friends totally overcomes him and it really feels like his brain switches off from trusting and listening to me.

It’s been a few years of owning him and we’ve only done a handful of shows and it just seems like he would be better suited in a place where he can be consistently worked. I don’t really trust him in a pairs situation since I can’t get him to be consistent as a single horse.

However, I just can’t quite seem to feel like I’m up to parting with him because he really is a nice horse to have in the barn, however, horses are absolutely a luxury for us and I got him for a purpose that he can’t really fulfill and I’m not sure I just want a pasture ornament – however I’m incredibly concerned about selling him considering how easily minis can get into bad situations.

I can’t tell if I should contact a trainer and have them work with him for a while if we can afford it, or if I should just chalk this up to me not having the time he needs to be a successful driving horse.

Is he still a solid riding horse? If so, and if you require a driving horse, sell him as a riding horse. Very few people want to drive.

If his meltdowns are affecting his riding too, then there are a lot of medical issues you want to rule out. Body pain, vision problems, neurological, tick borne diseases, etc. Basically any pain can make a horse anxious and spooky.

If it’s affecting his riding he’s not really saleable until you get to the bottom of his mental health issues

Oh just realized it’s a mini. Whole other scenario. I don’t know what you do with a mini. On the other hand they are cheap to feed

[moonlitoaksranch]

What if you had a trainer work with him for a short period to see if they can identify an issue? I’m also assuming his eyes have been checked. Perhaps he needs consistent work, or maybe something else is going on. How old is he? How old was he when you bought him? Did he get crash course style training before you bought him? Is some of this maturity and questioning that he didn’t get a chance to do during a rapid initial training?

[Foxglove]

My old trainer said : You love the sport or you love the horse –

So --if this were my horse, I would follow @Scribbler’s thoughts and find him a job he liked that I could do with him and head off into the sunset. When I was given Hugh Jackman by one of my kids when he could no longer do big fences, my first thought was to retrain him into a Mounted Archery horse --after six months of almost daily work and discussing the situation with a few trainers --the conclusion was that neither Hugh nor I would ever live long enough for that retraining to be successful. Meanwhile, I have two top level Mounted Archery horses sitting in my barn doing nothing while I am trying to retrain an OTTB to be non reactive and have a slow canter . . .square peg, round hole.

Hugh and I discussed and we came to the conclusion what we could do was Dressge --I still had the ring from when my kids were showing dressage and I knew a wee bit --since I watched them for 20+ years. Last summer (22) I bought Hugh a dressage saddle, took 4 lessons, and entered a show. We won both our classes (60%) --fact is Hugh is very, very good and I don’t fall off. We both enjoyed the work getting to that point --daily time together --it was fun!

When my first flight hunter Will developed arthritis, vet said no more jumping. That was fine with me (Will was never very good at it anyway, always taking off too early or too close). We threw ourselves into Mounted Archery where is IS very, very good —flat canter, speeds up or slows down on a verbal command, unflappable. I still hunt him --second flight --that’s fine as I am now 70.

Clearly my long-winded point is --either find something you enjoy with the horse --and do it --or sell him. My DD who gave me Hugh Jackman found a lovely OTTB mare and is back on the 3-Day circuit. It all worked out.

[showy]

When it’s no longer fun, it’s time to sell.

I struggled with some thing similar with a riding horse. He didn’t like the upper levels for dressage despite being plenty athletic. I didnt have the time or budget to chase every rabbit hole for soundness or for more training/ show ring time so I listed him. It just wasn’t fun anymore.

If your mini isn’t going to do what you ultimately want, I would try to find him a suitable home.

[horsegal301]

We have checked his eyes, he’s 9, so would have been 4 when we got him. Apparently he was driven at a show in 2017, but before we got him he was being shown in hand by 4h kids. I don’t know the history of how they set him up for driving, but considering how most mini people do it, it probably wasn’t slow and steady with incremental victories.

Like I mentioned, I didn’t trust them at all so I started completely over with a trainer (who has since moved, unfortunately) and he was quite a good boy.

[horsegal301]

Unfortunately there’s not much else for him to do unless we can get him in a good, consistent headspace. He’s a mini and I’ve started stepping away from doing breed shows and more ADS shows, so there’s no opportunities for haltering and in-hand competition.

[NoSuchPerson]

Strip away the emotions and I think it’s pretty simple.

It isn’t clear to me from your posts if it’s just the driving he objects to or if his problems extend to other uses. Is there anything the horse can do well? Anything that might make him desirable for someone who doesn’t have your goals? That could be anything from a pasture pet the grandkids can fuss over when they visit to going back to showing in-hand at breed shows. If yes, then sell him to one of those homes.

Has the horse become so mentally challenged that no one would want him in his current state? Then I think you have two routes to explore: get a detailed veterinary evaluation to look for possible causes or send him to a good trainer to see if he can be redeemed. Money is a factor here, of course. These can be expensive.

There is nothing wrong with selling a horse that does not meet your needs. But any problems the horse is having should be fully disclosed to potential buyers.

[horsegal301]

Thanks, I thought I responded to comments and in my post that said he’s great in hand - which is a lot of classes at Mini breed shows. He is a great hunter/jumper in hand, a wonderful in hand trail horse. A great showmanship horse and would do well in halter classes. We’ve hand walked in parades and he’s fantastic. Before I purchased him he was shown by a bunch of 4H kids doing 4H shows (minus the driving part). He’s an incredibly personable horse and loves attention.

We did have the vet come out and there are no issues.

It is seemingly only when he’s in cart does he suddenly look for his friends and stop listening and stop trusting - I would definitely be open to sending him to a trainer, however I’m not really sure how effective just 30 days would be as I know not every horse fits into a 30 day box and I couldn’t really afford more than 30 days for the rates around here.

[clanter]

there is a limited demand for birthday party unicorns, the one we have earns $500 per appearance

he is also a “model” for high school photography class studies (done for free) and recently was used in a demonstration at a local grade school (again a free no charge event)

for his In Door work he wears Build A Bear combat boots which fit very well and provides a none slip shoe for him (these are about $7 a pair versus the around $200 for real made for mini horse slip on boots)

As for upkeep we found that the three minis we have pretty much equal one horse

[NoSuchPerson]

Yes, I know you said that he was great in hand before, but what wasn’t clear to me was whether or not the problems he was having had spread beyond driving and were affecting other activities.

Years ago, I took a weekend “introduction to driving” clinic, thinking that I would like to start driving one of my mules. One of the things they said was that some horses simply aren’t cut out for driving, for one reason or another.

If your horse is still doing other things well, then it seems pretty clear that driving just isn’t his thing. As someone else already said, don’t try to fit a round peg into a square hole. Just sell your round peg to someone who has a round hole to fill.

[cayuse]

I would sell, there are plenty of people who would LOVE to have a versatile in-hand mini to show. I drive my minis and from what you describe, I would not feel comfortable driving one that stops listening/trusting in harness. He sounds like a wonderful little horse for the right situation just not for driving. If I had room I’d be interested in him!

[OnAMission]

You can always put him up for consideration, tell your vet/trainer, trusted horse friends, and see what kind of interest you get. Sometimes the perfect person shows up and you can happily sell and not have any lingering worries/doubts.

I’m in need of a pony type critter for my grandson; he might find a cushy job like that.

[RMJacobs]

@horsegal301

driving in the pastures with them

I can’t really address most of your post, other to reiterate what someone else said about re-engaging a trainer, but I just wanted to say: don’t do this. Trying to drive one horse with others in the same space but loose is asking for a problem. I drove my ponies in my front pasture during training, but with the other horses safely enclosed in the back pasture.

Rebecca

[furlong47]

@horsegal301

However, I just can’t quite seem to feel like I’m up to parting with him because he really is a nice horse to have in the barn, however, horses are absolutely a luxury for us and I got him for a purpose that he can’t really fulfill and I’m not sure I just want a pasture ornament – however I’m incredibly concerned about selling him considering how easily minis can get into bad situations.

I would look for a 4H type home that wants to do the in-hand stuff but not the driving. But there may be another option here if 4H is big enough in your area - you could keep ownership but lease or free lease to a kid/family, then when they age out or move on to other parts of the program find him a new kid.

[fivestrideline]

Can you take him back to breed shows for a bit and then sell him to someone who wants to do the in hand? That seems the best way to give him a more compatible job, and ensure his value to someone. It doesn’t sound like driving is his thing, at least not without going to a driving trainer for a while (which doesn’t sound doable for you). But if he’s a doll like you say, easy to handle, and has some record in the ring, I’m sure there’s a market for him.