How do you know whether to renovate or overseed a pasture?

[RedmondDressage]

Ok, my pasture is in dire need of help and this is about the time of year to do it, but I’m not sure what I should do! I was all set to till it, reseed, and start from scratch but now I’m questioning that plan. I’ve got sacrifice areas for the horses to winter in I plan to keep them completely off. The pasture is about 2 acres and has some grass in areas, maybe 3 inches long. Other areas it’s very, very short. and in a large area leading up to the gate its completely bare. It really didn’t grow back this year at all - my parents (who lived here before us) used to have to mow, this year it didn’t get even close to long enough to need mowing. The 3" long areas are about the longest it ever got.

How do I know if I should just overseed or if I need to completely renovate?

[hosspuller]

Depends on what is in the pasture. Full of weeds, no forage - renovate. Sparse forage, soil conditions correct - over seed. The area at the gate sounds compacted and the rest sounds over grazed. The long grass is the bathroom area.

[goodhors]

Probably should start with a soil test, then make your plans. Grasses not growing well, is a sign the dirt needs help to produce the crop you want, grass mix.

I would make lines in the dirt, using a disc rather than reducing the pasture to ALL dirt with tilling. Then fertilize according to what the soil test says you need to produce grass. Then seed and drag the whole field to smooth out any dirt lumps, break up manure spots so the seed can grow before winter. I have a chain drag/harrow, which is good for that stuff.

See what comes up and just let it grow over the winter. Come Spring, you will want to mow, then see how the seeding areas come back, in case you have bald spots and need to reseed them again, before horses can go out there.

Not sure if you “mow anyway” with different heights of plants in the field. I do suggest you do that, keep the longer stuff shortened, so it is more appealing to the equines that like new growth. You will get better over-all grazing mowing often, but not TOO short. If possible, mow no shorter than 5 inches, don’t let the long stuff get taller than 8-10 inches OR setting seed. Plants go dormant if they are allowed to set seed, done for the year, so you have no new growth coming on.

You are right, now is a good time to get seed planted and have it do well. I am saying to cut the land with the disc, which opens it better for soaking up rain, getting air into the soil, so you don’t have rain sheeting off in a storm, doesn’t get into the dirt to help your plants and their roots. Air in the soil helps it be less dense, friendly to micro-organisms that make healthy soil, lets plant roots spread easier for better plants. Dirt is not packed down hard from horse hooves running across the dirt.

Good pastures take some work and time.

[Cherry]

Since you don’t say where you are located… Is it possible to have an agricultural extension agent out to your place to give you input?

I think he would probably tell you: 1) take a soil sample and adjust the pH, if necessary. If you have to add lime this is the time to do it. Weeds thrive in soils low in pH. 2) if you have to overseed it would be better to drill the seed in rather than till the soil. When you till the soil you’re spreading weed seeds around and opening the soil up for possible erosion problems.

An agent looking at the problem can give you better advice than we can over the Internet. I just know that not everything that is green is grass.

[fatappy]

[QUOTE=hosspuller;7749644]
Depends on what is in the pasture. Full of weeds, no forage - renovate. Sparse forage, soil conditions correct - over seed. [/QUOTE]

This is what I would do.

[SMF11]

Cherry’s advice is spot on. Definitely get an extension agent, or another expert out to give recommendations. I have an 11 acre field that’s being taken over by a weed called bedstraw. A soil test showed that my soil was almost perfect (!!) and the Crop Production Services man recommended spraying the field for the weed and then just tweaking the fertilizer – and he said definitely don’t seed the field, there was enough grass to come back.

The point being: we can’t know online what the best thing to do is – someone who knows what they are doing, actually looking at the field will be your best course of action. Plus it is free.

[goodhors]

I kind of lost faith in the County Folks when I wanted to rent our County No-Till grass drill to “patch up” some bald spots that had developed in my fields. It had been very hot and drought time over summer. Not usual here, but I never had NOTHING growing, so horses had enough to eat on just pasture.

He came out, said they would NOT rent the Drill unless I totally killed ALL MY PASTURE GRASS, then drilled in all new seed!! Good grief, I had spent a LOT of time, money and work, on fuel to work and mow, then getting fertilizers applied, getting that pasture to develop deep roots, thick sod. He wanted me to KILL IT ALL!! Then to BUY GRASS SEED at the same price as Gold Dust, put it back in the dead field was NOT practical thinking on his part!! What a waste of perfectly good field pastures!

So I said No Thanks, roughed up my bald spots and laid new seed by hand, covered it and the grass came in beautifully for me. I had the price of fuel for tractor work, only needed 2 bags at almost $100 the bag, to have pastures back in good shape for winter and next season. That is really GOOD SEED, no Fescue mix since we breed a mare now and then, and it germinated very well for me.]

So OP needs to consider costs too, said the pastures were good before. I am thinking it is probably lack of fertilizer, regular care with mowing, that has reduced production so much. Maybe not enough rain when needed. So for the lesser price of “spot fixing bald places” and getting the soil testing for fertilizer applications needed, I would come out cheaper. Weeds can be done away with pretty quick, if mowing regularly is done, some spot spaying with herbicide right on the weeds.

Certainly won’t hurt to get the Ag Folks out to view the pasture, give advice. But not knowing her budget, there are alternative ways to get production going again with plain work. Horse manure fertilizer is OK, but probably not replacing the lack of mineral things needed in soil to grow good grass, so only fertilizing with those items is going to fix that issue.

[QacarXan]

It’s been my experience that most Extension agents know more about corn, soy, or cattle than horses. Some aspects of pasture management are identical between cattle and horses, many are not.

If you give your location and post some pictures, that would help us to help you

[RedmondDressage]

I’m in western WA about 45 min east of Seattle. Based on what you guys are saying and what I’m reading elsewhere I think I’m leaning toward overseeding. it seems that my pasture is not as bad as I think it is. I don’t have pics of just the field but I’m posting a few that I took of the horses this summer that show the pasture pretty well. I can take some additional pics/closeups after work if you guys think it would be helpful!

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j114/jettgirl24/2014-07-02151606_zps3ec168f2.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j114/jettgirl24/10516658_10204303981548014_7394819304781872348_n_zps641ce989.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j114/jettgirl24/Aurie-52814_zps88721b96.jpg

As you can see in the last picture, the gate area is pretty much bare, the rest of the field is short - 1" or less, there are a few areas of slightly longer grass - 3" or so. Amazingly there aren’t a ton of weeds. I do get some tansy down near the woods, which I pull as soon as I notice it coming up. I get some foxglove along the fence line too, again I pull. But the rest really doesn’t get super weedy - which always surprises me, seems like it would be ripe for weed growth with how overgrazed it is! The weeds I do get tend to be around the fence line.

[AmarachAcres]

Our extension is great, I hope yours can help you!

[QacarXan]

That looks like an overseeding situation.

It also looks as if you might have more horses than your pastures can deal with–I don’t know what your acreage is, but in my experience pastures that look like that are generally very, very overgrazed. Overseeding will only be a short-term solution in that case, and won’t help if the horses can’t be removed from the pasture while the seedlings established. At least that’s what I can guess from the pics.

[RedmondDressage]

[QUOTE=QacarXan;7752353]
That looks like an overseeding situation.

It also looks as if you might have more horses than your pastures can deal with–I don’t know what your acreage is, but in my experience pastures that look like that are generally very, very overgrazed. Overseeding will only be a short-term solution in that case, and won’t help if the horses can’t be removed from the pasture while the seedlings established. At least that’s what I can guess from the pics.[/QUOTE]

Oh its most definitely an over grazing situation… And I have a plan moving forward. They’ll be confined to the sacrifice area over winter. I’ll be cross fencing in the spring and rotating, plus utilizing the sacrifice area so they’re not all out every day. I’m also working on clearing for another pasture but that will probably not happen for another year or two.

[SMF11]

I don’t know about your climate, but I can have extremely overgrazed areas – like my dry lot which in the past was mostly bare – and if I leave it alone the grass comes storming back. I do nothing, just keep the horses off it. If you can manage that (and it works in your climate) that’s the cheapest option!

[goodhors]

If you have a sacrifice area in the future, you probably can graze all the horses, but for LIMITED times. Run them into the sacrifice area for the rest of the day hours, when grazing time is up. Rotation of fields will help let grass thicken and have better roots, get some length to the leaves.

My horses are only on their pasture about 12 hours a day, stalled the rest because of insects being so bad. They would be total blimps, if not taken off the pasture for half the day!! The are still well fleshed out, in light work, not getting ANY hay, all on grazing and a handful of grain, wet beet pulp daily for coming inside.

[RedmondDressage]

Just want to thank you all for your advice… You pointed me in the right direction and I got in touch with our county conservation district and I am now on their farm planning waiting list. I’m going to have to take care of the pasture before they are able to come out but sometime in the next 2 months or so they will come out and look at my property and the intended use and help me develop a management and improvement plan to put it to best use. Even better - its not binding but by participating I’m eligible for reimbursement for a percentage of the expenses I incur for improvements made in line with the plan. That reimbursement includes everything from seeding to cross fencing to drainage and footing. I had no idea my county had such a program but I’m super stoked to get more information and come up with a plan!