Here 
[IMG]http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j312/dusty205/lucy_zps3ca81a83.jpg)
This is her brother
[IMG]http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j312/dusty205/lucybro_zps634ee039.jpg)
Don’t really know where to start to answer.
There are so many questions about breeding, what kind of horse, reasons for breeding, is there already a glut of horses bred like that without a market for them, does it make sense to breed more?
What are the performance records of the mare and stallion, have they produced something already so we know what lines will nick, both tested for any possible genetic problems we can test for today, like HERDA and such?
What is the breeder looking to get in the offspring?
All that is what comes to mind when someone is presenting a mare to be possibly bred and a stallion to bred her to.
There is not even a picture of her, if I read the post correctly.
That is why it is hard to figure what kind of response you are looking for, not having touched on any of that for us to go by.
I’d like to see her picture.
“there already a glut of horses bred like that without a market for them, does it make sense to breed more?”
+1
If you look at the first post you will see two pictures of her, a picture of her brother who is the 2013 Furtury winner… Stud produces, reining, penning, cutting and halter babies… Many are show winners and have gone to congress…
[QUOTE=ECarr;7255930]
If you look at the first post you will see two pictures of her, a picture of her brother who is the 2013 Furtury winner… Stud produces, reining, penning, cutting and halter babies… Many are show winners and have gone to congress…[/QUOTE]
Good to know they are proven performance horses, that does help today, breed the best to the best.
So those pictures in the round pen are her, not the stallion you are breeding her to, as I assumed?
Oh, ok, now that makes more sense.
Good luck with your breeding project.:yes:
Why are you breeding a solid paint to a QH? I see she has a tobi sire, so no chance of AQHA/APHA double registry on her or the foal, so you’re going to end up with another SPB paint, which limits the market and impacts the value, if you decide to sell it.
What would you breed to, to be able to double reg the foal
She can’t produce a DR foal, since she can’t be DR since she has tobi heritage. If you’re set on breeding her, at least breed her to something with pedigree, performance and color, to give the foal a shot at color. If you breed to a homozygous tobiano, you’ll have the best chance at color, since slipped tobis are extremely rare.
[QUOTE=BayRoan;7256708]
Why are you breeding a solid paint to a QH? I see she has a tobi sire, so no chance of AQHA/APHA double registry on her or the foal, so you’re going to end up with another SPB paint, which limits the market and impacts the value, if you decide to sell it.[/QUOTE]
This…why are you breeding? Do you just want a baby? Do you already have a breeding operation?
If you really like the mare, ride and show her for points or ride for fun, but why are you breeding? If you want a well bred baby just because, buy one. Just breeding for the baby is always a crapshoot, getting them grown up sound an healthy and then the cost of training, etc…you can buy a top notch youngster for less than what you will have in to the foal. At least potentially.
So many beautifully bred horses are available and they aren’t hardly selling. Nice mare. Good luck.
[QUOTE=craz4crtrs;7257236]
This…why are you breeding? Do you just want a baby? Do you already have a breeding operation?
If you really like the mare, ride and show her for points or ride for fun, but why are you breeding? If you want a well bred baby just because, buy one. Just breeding for the baby is always a crapshoot, getting them grown up sound an healthy and then the cost of training, etc…you can buy a top notch youngster for less than what you will have in to the foal. At least potentially.
So many beautifully bred horses are available and they aren’t hardly selling. Nice mare. Good luck.[/QUOTE]
Here is a total dispersal sale by one of the top performance paint breeders, that will have over 200 horses for sale, also some of the top performance paint horses in the breed:
http://westernbloodstock.com/sales/mor2013/pix/moore.pdf
It will be interesting what those prices will be.
I have done the logistics and it will be cheaper to foal out our mare than buy a foal… Besides they money, we have a little more accurate idea of temperament, etc… We will also be able to raise and care for the foal from day one, so we will know how healthy it is and prevent problems that you might get from buying a foal (extremely wormy, not the right nutrition up to that point…) Buying a foal or having your own will incur training costs. So all said and done, I prefer to breed my mare, but I am open to studs… Her particular lines sell very well here… She was bought as a yearling for 3k… Babies from her father last year sold anywhere from 2-3k… So there is a market if we decide not to keep the foal…
[QUOTE=ECarr;7257326]
I have done the logistics and it will be cheaper to foal out our mare than buy a foal… Besides they money, we have a little more accurate idea of temperament, etc… We will also be able to raise and care for the foal from day one, so we will know how healthy it is and prevent problems that you might get from buying a foal (extremely wormy, not the right nutrition up to that point…) Buying a foal or having your own will incur training costs. So all said and done, I prefer to breed my mare, but I am open to studs… Her particular lines sell very well here… She was bought as a yearling for 3k… Babies from her father last year sold anywhere from 2-3k… So there is a market if we decide not to keep the foal…[/QUOTE]
I’m not of the school that it is a sin to breed your mare, but your thinking is not right here.
Explain to me how it isn’t right?? Oh and I forgot travel or shipping costs to get a nice foal!
[QUOTE=ECarr;7257346]
Explain to me how it isn’t right?? Oh and I forgot travel or shipping costs to get a nice foal![/QUOTE]
Maybe it is not about what is right so much as being sure all the angles have been considered.
Breeding, even the best to the best, is like playing roulette.
Many foals are born and they are whatever the gene mix in each one determines.
Breeders know that from many foals, only a very few will be what they wanted, is why we breed animals, to get certain traits in them and that is up to the gene lottery.
Long time breeders have a better chance of getting close to what they want after years of seeing what they are getting, who crosses with whom and why and that at times, nothing really worked as expected.
That is on the breeding end itself, then it comes what are we going to do with that foal, if it is what we were looking for, or maybe not by a long shot?
That will be determined by the market out there and right now, there are way too many horses, few really outstanding ones, many middle of the pack, many that don’t fit most people want from horses.
The horse industry is going thru a contraction right now, which means you can by far buy exactly what you want at little cost, compared with the pot shot of what you will get in something you have not even bred yet.
Those and many others are questions anyone wanting to breed will have to answer for themselves.
Especially thinking that the horse we bred will live for several decades and needs to have as good a life as we can give it.
To do so, that means the horse we breed has to hopefully be what we and if we don’t keep it, someone else will want to have.
If not, if we just breed because, without any idea other than getting a foal on the ground that may or not fit what we or any other may want, then we may as well just be breeding any one other livestock out there.
Which is fine, this is a free country, anyone can do what they want for themselves, as long as they don’t interfere with what others want for themselves, personal freedoms still count to do what we want, within some restrains and responsibilities.
I think that any time someone wants to breed, there are many questions that they should be asking themselves and yes, every other busybody out there will be sure to also ask you.
Responsibilities come with freedoms, so we are careful to exercise said freedoms as intelligently as we may.
Sure, breed whatever you want to whatever you like, but understand that will impact way more than just what you want to do and like here, a future horse’s life.
A serious consideration that should give pause to anyone.
I think that is what many are doing here, asking the pertinent questions, to be sure all answers are covered, even those we didn’t know to ask.
[QUOTE=ECarr;7257326]
I have done the logistics and it will be cheaper to foal out our mare than buy a foal… Besides they money, we have a little more accurate idea of temperament, etc… We will also be able to raise and care for the foal from day one, so we will know how healthy it is and prevent problems that you might get from buying a foal (extremely wormy, not the right nutrition up to that point…) Buying a foal or having your own will incur training costs. So all said and done, I prefer to breed my mare, but I am open to studs… Her particular lines sell very well here… She was bought as a yearling for 3k… Babies from her father last year sold anywhere from 2-3k… So there is a market if we decide not to keep the foal…[/QUOTE]
I’m not going to try to discourage you from breeding. I have no problem with people breeding their own horses as long as they’re responsible about it. And, let’s face it, it’s fun to raise your own.
But, you need to adjust your expectations. Based on my experience, it is most definitely not cheaper to raise your own foal than just buy what you want.
As for being able to predict the temperament, yeah, I’ve got one standing in the pasture right now whose sire was known for producing great minded offspring and dam was the sweetest, kindest, most wonderful mare ever. Their son? Oh, so NOT anything like his parents. On the other hand, I raised 3 foals over the years from a mare who was one of the bitchiest horses I’ve ever owned. A great ride, but she definitely had that mare attitude. Every one of her foals was sweet-natured, calm, and even tempered.
As far as the idea that when you buy a foal you risk getting one that is wormy and hasn’t received the right nutrition, well, if you buy from a reputable breeder, you don’t need to worry about that. And, just because you’ve raised and cared for a foal “from day one” doesn’t mean you aren’t going to have one with health problems.
Again, breed if you want. There’s nothing wrong with that. But don’t go into it with unrealistic expectation. Breeding is a crapshoot. You can improve the odds by careful selection of the parents and good husbandry, but there are no guarantees. The odds of getting what you want are much better when you simply go out and buy it.
The last two horses I bought were a 2 year old and a 4 year old. Both have exceptional performance bloodlines. The 2 year old had an excellent start with about 30 rides on him and we paid $2100 for him. The 4 year old is 2-3 months away from being a finished cutter and we paid $2500 for her. Her sire’s stud fee is $3500. I could never breed horses and get them to the point these two were at for that kind of money.
Contrary to some opinions out there, the horse economy has not corrected itself. There are MANY bargins to be had out there!
[QUOTE=ECarr;7257346]
Explain to me how it isn’t right?? Oh and I forgot travel or shipping costs to get a nice foal![/QUOTE]
Cost savings is not a reason to breed.
It’s a long time between conception and a horse to ride. A lot can go wrong during that time.
If you’re doing it for cost savings, SHOP. There are plenty of nice, cheap foals around. There are plenty of nice, cheap two-year olds around. There are plenty of nice, cheap (unruined) 7 year olds around!
With your baby, you have no idea whether his temperament, size, or potential will match what you need. It’s a total crap shoot.
If you shop and buy what you want, well, you get to pick what you want.
To say that every horse for sale is wormy or malnourished – that’s just nonsense.
Again, I’m not saying nobody should breed their mare. I’m saying don’t tell yourself you’re doing it to save money.
Breeding stock paints, broke to death, sound, sane, and pretty with papers are available here for $500-2000 all day long. How many you want?
Don’t fail to realize that the market was much different when that mare was a weanling and apparently sold for 3k as a solid paint. Also, all those super marketable foals by her sire… colored? Is there really such a dearth of cow bred horses in Virginia that such moderately bred animals are valuable, even if they’re members of a color registry, but lack color?
Other folks made some really good points about the risks of breeding. The cost savings are typically illusory. By the time you pay all the breeding fees, maintain the mare, and then the foal, it’s not unusual to have $4-5k in them as a 2yo, you just put it in as installments, rather than all at once. I can buy a dang nice 2yo, the color, size, sex, disposition, conformation and breeding that I like, for that much money. Typically, though, I search high and low for bargains of good quality and usually find my yearlings or 2 year olds for around $1500. I know I can’t breed what I want that cheap. But, I also know that it isn’t all about money, or savings.
If you want to raise a foal, that’s your prerogative. I just suggest that you at least find a high quality colored stallion to help bolster the potential value of the foal. Also, do take a hard look at your mare, both in conformation and disposition, and try to find a stallion that balances her weak points. The pictures you provided are not good conformation shots and it’s hard to tell much about how she’s built. Based on them, I, personally, wouldn’t consider her a broodmare prospect, but perhaps she looks to be higher quality in person.
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