How do you pick a foal/young horse?

[netg]

I figure you are all the experts here.

I’m hoping to get a baby within the next few years. I’m not necessarily specifc on whether I get a foal or youngster who is just about ready to start, but would prefer an unstarted youngster. I am in a position where I can handle the risk of it being a baby who turns out unrideable or has some kind of injury delaying it all and good help who can ensure I do tihngs right.

The babies I’ve had in the past were ones who just kind of came along, and weren’t sporthorses. I want a young horse to attempt to take to grand prix, though my own ability to reach it is still in question now, and it really is the journey which is so important.

I’ve realized I see tons of babies I love and think could be right for me, but don’t settle on any because I just don’t know how to know if it’s the (best guess) right horse for me. Anyone have suggestions?

And no, I’m not looking for a world beater - just a horse who will start me off in the right direction by naturally having physical tendencies toward dressage instead of having to fight against major problems.

ETA: I’m ok with general or specific advice. I assume both parents will be quality, and at least one will have made it to GP (most likely the sire).

[Perfect_Pony]

Well, I don’t know that this will be a USEFUL answer to your question, but it’s my experience and the reason I don’t buy a weanling/yearling. I think it’s a real art to be able to really see how a foal or yearling will mature. I have seen some lovely foals (to me) from good parents turn out really awful. I have seen some fairly average looking foals turn out striking. Lots of “premium foals” and inspection winners that mature looking very average or below average, and big headed, funny looking foals turn into swans. Of the people I know that have bought foals, 80% or more have really struck out, a few are even lame and unridable at 4-5 years old.

I would say that it’s not something most can learn by studying, I think some people with years and years and years of experience learn it eventually, through raising and breeding many foals, by trial and error.

If you seriously want a foal, and are looking for a upper level prospect, I’d try to hire someone to help you look. At least that is what I would do, find someone that has a history of developing horses from birth that you trust, and pay them for their help.

[Dalemma]

Well my first thought is that if your riding is not at the grand prix level yet…you will need to be careful that you will be able to ride a horse of that caliber…I know of a lady that rides dressage in our area…who bought a big fancy warmblood in hopes of riding at the grandprix level…well it didn’t work out so well as she ended not being able to ride the horse …it had too much movement…so she could not sit or stay with the movement.

I would buy what you can ride now.

Dalemma

[JB]

When I was looking at foals, I looked for foals by stallions whose offspring I had already seen and liked. I ideally found out the mares’ sire lines as well and looked for something similar.

Full siblings to horses who are already doing what you want to do is not a bad way to start, even knowing then it can be a crap shoot.

Foals by the same stallion out of a mare with similar lines to others is maybe the 2nd best way.

Foals without the same sire or dam, but whose sire and dam are of similar breeding/lines is maybe the 3rd best way.

Beyond that, I couldn’t begin to just pick foals out of a crowd and say “that one has GP potential, that one doesn’t” unless it’s just WILDLY obvious LOL

[TrinitySporthorses]

If you don’t have a good eye for picking weanlings, you should hire someone REALLY knowledgeable and know that even then, they could make an error. Buying an unstarted 2 1/2 to 3 year old will likely be much more successful for you.
Looking at the horse in front of you is the most important thing- their conformation and how they use their bodies when they play. But to increase the odds of success, you will want to gather as much info as possible about relatives.
Also, keep in mind the recent thread about the faults seen in the FEI competitors at Gladstone. No Olympic horse has perfect conformation or movement but they are TOUGH and have HEART…that is what will take you to the top and so I would def take personality into consideration when you evaluate young horses. IMO and IME, foals are born with a “personality” (for lack of a better word) and that can certainly be influenced by the care they receive. However, I have found that brats with bad attitudes tend to stay less willing and super easy/willing/ friendly babies make raising and training so much easier.

[stolensilver]

I think you need to understand that almost every rider will spoil their first 3,4 or 5 potential GP horses. It doesn’t happen on purpose. It happens because as a rider, you need to learn what the perfect canter before a flying change feels like, what the balance should be like in a half pass, what will cause the passage to stall and so on.

So bear in mind that even if you find a horse with the potential to get to GP you’ll probably make enough mistakes along the way that they don’t achieve that potential.

And with that in mind look I’d suggest that you look not for paces but for kindness and forgiveness and a dam (probably) that was produced by an amateur to the upper levels of dressage. And that stayed sound. Look outside the normal breeds. Don’t insist on a warmblood. Your first serious dressage horse needs to be a saint that will forgive you all your mistakes, never get cross and never lose their will to please. That sort of temperament is extremely rare. If you find a horse who has it you will be in for a hugely enjoyable journey.

[goodpony]

@Perfect Pony;6380851

I would say that it’s not something most can learn by studying, I think some people with years and years and years of experience learn it eventually, through raising and breeding many foals, by trial and error.

I would agree with the above and add raising those babies and eventually training several (both the gifted/less gifted) to compete at the level you desire.

[Beentheredonethat]

[QUOTE=JB;6380929]
When I was looking at foals, I looked for foals by stallions whose offspring I had already seen and liked. I ideally found out the mares’ sire lines as well and looked for something similar.

Full siblings to horses who are already doing what you want to do is not a bad way to start, even knowing then it can be a crap shoot.

Foals by the same stallion out of a mare with similar lines to others is maybe the 2nd best way.

Foals without the same sire or dam, but whose sire and dam are of similar breeding/lines is maybe the 3rd best way.

Beyond that, I couldn’t begin to just pick foals out of a crowd and say “that one has GP potential, that one doesn’t” unless it’s just WILDLY obvious LOL[/QUOTE]

I would never buy a foal because I have no idea what I’m looking at, and I don’t think most people do, but if I were, I would go with JB. This is what I basically did to breed my GP horse. And my few experiences breeding and raising babies, boy they do NOT look like what they end up as. My GP mare was a stunner that had everyone looking when I rode her–as a baby-eh. I have a two full sisters right now, two and four. The four year old is a really, really nice horse getting started, but my god, from 1 1/2 to 3 1/3, she was horrid looking, though a fabulous mover. Her two year old sister had about two months where I thought it was going to bad, but then poof!, she looks like a stunning, perfect little horse. Now, who knows what she’s going to look like in 6 months, or a year.

Another thing to consider is how they are raised. This is a huge issue I have. They need to be out and running for 3-4 years and growing strong as well as good food without being overfed. I know PP has had some issues with this. I think you can end up with lifelong soundness issues because of this and being started too young.

I dunno. I’m brave, but I don’t know I would buy anything under three unless it were something of bloodlines I could not get otherwise.

[mbm]

i would say that if you really want to train up the levels… buy something you can already sit on -because honestly - no matter how they look, what their breeding is - it is the ride ability and the feel they give you that matters most.

[Spike]

I seriously think that you can buy a foal and be happy with what you get. But… you have to seriously know your bloodlines, and what both parents can throw into the equation. Buy from a reputable breeder, who has a lot of experience and lots of happy clients. Personnaly, over all the foals we’ve sold in the last 6 years, only 2 had changed hands. One because of her size, the other for financial reasons. People are usually thrilled with their foals, and to buy it baby can give you that special bond of having raised him and seen him grow and develop into YOUR partner. With no bad habits inherited from previous owners.
After all, we breeders are supplying the caneva and the paint, and you riders are the artists.

[RyTimMick]

Well this is an interesting thread. Its a great question, but as you can see much trepidation.

I will not delve into the risks, one of which is the overly high expectation of “The One”. It just isn’t fair. You wouldn’t ask that of a more mature horse, why of a foal. That being said, there is a good way to buy foals for intended purposes. The professionals who do this for a living have a process. It looks like this, and in order:

1. Find a great motherline known for producing top sport horses, and learn it inside and out.

2. See horses from that motherline that are already being ridden and in sport, and maybe ride one or two.

3. Find their best 2 or 3 dams that are producing now and look at their foals. If they have full grown, full siblings, look at them.

4. Get to know the stallions of these foals well, ask other breeders what they stamp, and what they are known for.

5. Lastly get to know the breeders well and ask them which ones will have the aptitude, type, athleticism, and mind to be a good mount based on your goals.

6. Then pick the best one.

I have done this, and I have watched others do this with great success. Most of this I have learned from watching “Bayhawk” do it. It is not a guarantee, but the results are spectacular. However, this takes an enormous amount of time. I have been studying 3 stamms intimately, have visited their breeders in Germany multiple times over the past 8 years. I am just now learning how to pick out the good foals.

It takes a lot of time. If you are just buying one, either get help from one who does this professionally, or buy a 3-4 year old. Best of luck.

TIM

[mbm]

[QUOTE=stolensilver;6381310]

And with that in mind look I’d suggest that you look not for paces but for kindness and forgiveness and a dam (probably) that was produced by an amateur to the upper levels of dressage. And that stayed sound. Look outside the normal breeds. Don’t insist on a warmblood. Your first serious dressage horse needs to be a saint that will forgive you all your mistakes, never get cross and never lose their will to please. That sort of temperament is extremely rare. If you find a horse who has it you will be in for a hugely enjoyable journey. :)[/QUOTE]

The above describes my Connemara to a “T” - well, except the dam part - but so far out of all the horses i have ever owned (including the fancy ones) he will give me the best chance of doing what i want… and not because he is fancy - altho he is drop dead gorgeous - but becuase he trys his heart out for me, is very sensitive, and wants to work.

I got VERY lucky when i bought him at 2. and i have no idea what i had until i really started riding him. at 4 months into real work he is further along that any horse i have ever trained - with hardly any effort on my part. and just yesterday i took him up on the scary hill for the first time and he just happily walked along like he had been there a million times before. He also hears my car coming and waits at the gate for me or comes running - its pretty cute

part of his rate of learning is that my knowledge base has changed, and part of it is that he is who he is but at 2.5, 2.75, 3.0, 3.25 etc he looked pretty bad! lol! he lost his gaits, he looked so funky i wanted to sell him!

we shall see where we go, but right now you couldn’t buy him from me for any amount of $$$.

[RunningwaterWBs]

What Tim said. 100% :yes:

[Sonesta]

Tim is dead on. So bottom line for most folks is to hire someone who knows what they are doing to find the foal for you.

[Donella]

Here is a good article:

http://www.horsemagazine.com/thm/2010/11/buying-a-foal-with-jens-meyer/

[netg]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone.

My TB certainly fits the temperament description as far as willingness/try. He improves at a far faster rate than I deserve simply because if he can figure out what to do, he will - whether I am actually asking properly or not.

No horse will be purchased without my trainer’s ok, as she seems to have an excellent ability to pick out young horses and tell what their ability/strengths will be. I just don’t want to bug her asking her to look at every horse I think seems like a possible potential horse for me.

I have no expectation that I won’t make mistakes. I have been progressing well with my TB much more because of his nature than mine, and have discovered a lot about what type of personality is great for me; I’m definitely looking for lines which tend to produce the right personality type.

[EquusMagnificus]

Here’s a great article, IMO: http://www.morningside-stud.com/gpage18.html

[VirginiaBred]

Pedigree first.

Everything else after that.

[NOMIOMI1]

Firstly Netg, you have been able to do very well with your TB, and he came stock with a fiery temperment (as Ive read in your post about showing).

As far as learning bigger movement, there is a seat curve to be sure, but people who cannot cope with MORE temperment should, yes, buy below or at their level of riding.

I have yet to meet a confident and level headed TB rider who felt that their fancy new wb was too much horse as with the other way around. Now sitting that trot… another story :lol:

Like I said, since you have been able to train upwards on a horse of more blood, getting something fancy would be okay IMO.

Foal wise, you are just looking for a step up I take it? That to my own mind is easy enough because some breeders are known for having a good quality stock and can steer you honestly in the right direction with the help of your trainer.

When going to look I heard, “Oh she always has foals with a great walk, or this is a trot maker here.”

The truth is some mares with give certain things that an honest breeder can actually tell you about, and as a buyer you just have to decide what you cannot live without.

For me with a foal I want to see a longer back (not too long), that can still track up. When not boinging around does he choose to canter or trot? Or can he just do both with ease?

Yes a horse can be balanced at a foals age more than others. Neck is a HUGE thing for me not too low!

Does mama walk nicely? Does she trot out fluidly? Papas scores were? Any horses at Gp by him? Anyone riding a horse by him that you can talk to?

Lots and lots of homework, but honestly whenever I switched to Wb’s to ride I found the Trak’s were sometims BOTH the Tb blood with the Wb movement, was a little much for what I would want. I found myself really liking the Dutch Wb’s that people thought were “hot”. Really they were just big and forward but totally sweet. I tried about 5 from good breeders and then looked at the brothers and sisters after

I think I know your area too… Have you spoken to Holly? She breeds some nice horses and there is always siblings around that are older

[NAS_Info]

Here is another very informative article:
http://www.northamericanstudbook.com/forms/From_Bottom_Up_Tips.pdf