I think there are two things here: how we talk About our horse with other people; and how we talk To our horse.
When I am talking about my horse, or any horse, I’m always very careful that the words convey my responsibility: "he spooked because I did X’ not ‘he spooked because he is a jerk’. If there is a problem, it lies with me, not the horse. Many of the people I am around aren’t horse people; they need to understand my responsibility and that if the horse has a problem, it is because we as people have created the situation. If they don’t understand that, it is very hard to get people to stop doing something.
However, when I am talking to my horse? I don’t come up with derogatory names, because I just don’t; but I will freely admit to swearing a blue streak at times…in the nicest tones you ever heard. It lets me have the safety valve so to speak (I’ve needed that less as I got older, but I was very angry teenager way back when) while calming the horse by the tone.
On the other hand, today I told off the young boy with no words at all: there was a growl that may have been almost a yell, bared teeth on my part, and a turn towards him. Message received: he does not get to push me off a food dish that he thinks he can have. Human words were not part of the equation.
i was training my boy Steve today. Just having him come to the mounting block and let me put a saddle on his back. Then stand still while i got down and put the girth on. I was thinking about what folks here were saying earlier, about asshat horses. Technically, this is a very dominant horse. I cannot have him in a herd because he fights all geldings and MUST own the mares. I was wondering how far along i would have gotten with him (he was wild until age 7) if in my head i thought of him as an asshat horse. I think my whole way of dealing with him would change. I do not know if i would have been able to gentle him and bring him up into rideability. (not sure though) When i think of his dominant characteristics, which isn’t that often, i see the spirited wild stallion he was and am humbled that he allows me to teach him.
I have 2 mares in my care right now. They absolutely respond to being told they are good girls. Especially when I’m doing something like leading one in each hand through a gate and I might have to interrupt the flow, turn around, back up. I always praise them after so they know I wasn’t just being an asshole for no reason. I also praise them if they co operate with putting on a halter or hoof boots, etc. Any hint of co operation even if it’s a bit counter productive. Just like a toddler really.
If they do something I can’t tolerate, what comes out of my mouth is “AY AY AY” while I respond physically. I don’t know why I say that. I cleaned up a lot of my swearing years ago when I started teaching but I will swear if a horse actually draws blood.
I also try to set them up for success. There’s no point yelling at horses for pawing at feeding time or throwing their halter on the ground or chewing the fence.
Isn’t that the truth! Although I am contemplating the spring time change in dynamics, I had the two boys behaving perfectly at feed time, they each would go and stand at their tire. Which they are allowed to paw at, as long as they stand at it. However for the last few days, the young boy has decided he has to control both feed tubs. First step is move them so far apart that he can’t. Then we will go back to the beginning and work on it. Again!
This is a really interesting thread! My first dressage trainer felt strongly on this and I don’t think she ever even critiqued behavior either. Usually we’d hear stuff like “XYZ was nervous/stressed” etc so most of the conversation about the emotion was connected back to what actually caused them to exhibit the behavior/emotion. It wasn’t a rule for others but most people picked up on it and kinda followed her lead. Looking back, I’m very grateful that I had her as a trainer as her influence has definitely contributed to me going down the science-based path that has played a large role in my life.
I’ve also been at places where the horses are just plain insulted by the people. Not that the horses specifically knew what they were saying but it was a little surprising to see so much anthropomorphism. I don’t think all people who say these things are terrible or abusive so it’s really more of an agree to disagree situation.
After owning my guy for 16 years (he’s 25 in May), I call him literally whatever words come to mind. As long as they sound sweet and he’s getting pets/cookies he is unbothered and happy.
But, when people ask me about him I call him an a**hole. I still say it in an endearing way, but even though I am used to the red-headed part TB shenanigans and find them endearing, I do not want anyone else to get hurt dealing with him. He seems like a sweet baby angel with me. After 16 years, you know what the different forms of pinned ears mean and how to appropriately deal with the consequences. But, it a whole other ball game with other people.
He just takes advantage at every opportunity if he doesn’t think you know what you’re doing. On the ground and under saddle. It doesn’t seem like it because we are just so in tune at this point in our lives.
So, yeah, I love him to death. But, that doesn’t stop me from calling him names when he deserves it. For horses it’s really about tone and meaning and not the words themselves.
i’ve been thinking about this thread a lot.
“As a Man Thinketh”…James Allen, 1903. My first and my only dog trainer had me read that book when he agreed to take me on as a student. And it’s what i came back to regarding this thread.
That said, I’m not so sure i agree that ‘it’s the tone not the words’
“Words have meaning.”…that’s the supporting conclusion i’ve come to in the past few days. Words influence thought. Just as thought influences action. Eg: I don’t think of my guy, Steve, in derogatory terms, but i’m pretty sure a case could be made to call him an assh9le, though I don’t think it would be productive. And actually, naturally, how i about him goes a different direction.
That he was once wild and free and had a band of mares and fought hard to keep them (and has the scars to prove it). And that it is humbling that he allows me to get aboard him
This is a huge pet peeve of mine.
There is a person local to me who regularly posts on social media and in person that her horse is a C*** and a b****. All the time. Its so upsetting and I just don’t understand the reasoning. Then they claim they are a kind horse trainer. Its repulsive. I don’t talk badly to my horses at all. I don’t see any reason to. I love them, why would I insult them.
Well that’s definitely over the top! I don’t agree with that at all.
There is definitely a case to be made against constantly calling your horse only derogatory names. But slipping in a “I love you you little jerk” is not the same thing.
I think that’s the splitting point of this thread. If you only call your horse derogatory names, you are the one who starts sounding like the a$$hole.
But slipping in an “I love you you little jerk” is not the same thing.
I may occasionally use an endearing derogatory like “trouble maker” or maybe “weirdo” but never anything truly mean.
I did have a kid who I let use my pony for Pony Club for several years suddenly start calling him butthole and poophead last year and I told her that if that’s what she felt about him, then she didn’t need to be riding him anymore. I never heard it again, and she outgrew him for this year.
My horse is the rarerest horse I have seen. I really love him.
I use weirdo and dorkfish a lot, but that’s mostly to describe the fact that my horses enjoy disassembling the barn and tormenting each other. So I’ll say “stop licking his ears, weirdo, he doesn’t like that” or “hey dorkfish, quit taking the trim off the barn”
We do call one of my horses alien baby, but that’s because he’s 6, over 17h, all legs, and has a tendency to make the strangest faces when he wants human attention. He has also been in a super awkward stage so he has gotten his legs all tangled up, tripped on himself and fallen more than once. He looks like an inflated yearling.
Another of my horses frequently has the name of goober, because he likes to steal gloves, snap bras, and play with zippers. So “give it back - goober” and “let go of my coat, dork” is a frequent refrain.
Still yet another hates when conditions are remotely imperfect outside. Today it’s drizzling and at turnout time he spun on his heels and tried to come back into the barn. I call him my delicate flower.
It’s all very affectionate though, and reflects how intelligent and silly my horses are. I don’t think of them negatively when training them, and anger never really factors in.
I grew up in a town and culture where “hey a&&hole” is an affectionate greeting though, so I’m pretty mild in my goofy name calling.
About the worst I get with Feronia is “Goofy Mare!” when she has done something… goofy. My other favorite has been “Seriously, mare?” when she is all of a sudden “unable” to do something she’s done a zillion times. But in general, I keep my talk on the “good girl” side of things, or sort of keep a running narrative of what we are doing, though it may contain more than a few “no, we aren’t going to go eat grass right now.” 
Think “OK, let’s go up the driveway!” or “yes, those are turkeys in the woods” or “What do you see? A dog? Yes, a dog” as I hand walk her around.
She has aged considerably in the past year, so I try to keep our time together low-key, because I don’t know how much more we’ll have.
My horse has a fairly (ha!) cocky personality and if he is displaying it by, for example, barging through the gate and running majestically around the farm, I will say something like “Omg, he’s suchan @$$hole.” He tries to bite me every single time I do his girth and I’ll tell him “Don’t be an ass! It’s not nice!”
Overall the trick with him though is to just not react when he tries to have an outsized opinion about something and just ask for what you DID want again. So I have sat quietly through quite a bit of porpoising or fussing with no comment, just waiting for him to conclude it is easier to just do it my way. Then when he does it right he gets SUPER impressed with how fancy he is and I just let him believe he’s an Olympic rockstar for cantering a 20 meter circle in a somewhat organized fashion.
My dogs, on the other hand, I always tell they are the worst dogs. During our snuggle sessions I will say “Who is this terrible dog? The worst of all dogs. With rat breath, and a little rat face…” etc. The tone of voice indicates they are actually the BEST dog and they are usually belly up, velcroed to me, with head lolling in utter bliss when this conversation is happening. If one of them is being silly such as for example continuing to bark despite repeated requests to stop I will say something like, “Benjamin! You’re the worst!” but again in a tone that he usually stops what he’s doing and comes over for some “worst dog” pats.
I’m going to preface my response with the fact that I talk like a sailor and have since I was a kid. I grew up mostly around men on the farm who spoke similarly however they had a huge respect for animals and their individual value. They recognized and practiced that the better you treated them (within economic reason) the more successful ‘your program’ was, be it Morgan horses, Holsteins, Ayrshire cattle, Rhode Island Reds, etc, all critters my family focused on for agricultural production and genetics. In other words, animals are what fed us (literally AND figuratively), clothed us and paid for our taxes. Our dogs were family, but they were also working animals as were the horses. Cattle and other livestock were treated with respect.
My grandfather was a quiet man but spent more time conversing with the animals than humans, often in French, his family’s language. My father too usually would talk to our animals with a soft voice but his words, whether in French or English weren’t the most dignified or polite. However, his tone towards the animals was always one of appreciation. Even as he was dying from dementia and heart issues his dogs brought him a lot of ‘relief’. His words were unrecognizable as he lost the ability to talk but his dogs seemed happy even with his guttural tones.
I have a strong attachment to my animals which I likely developed from the men who raised me. I’ve devoted my life to carrying for animals both professionally and personally. I will call my horses and my dogs buttheads, turds, putz - when they aren’t behaving in the most desired manner (often towards each other especially when they’re vying for my attention) but these are terms of endearment. I rarely yell at them unless it’s a matter of someone’s safety. I am honest in my assessment of my animals when speaking about them to others, usually other horse people or my staff at work. I don’t think they question my love for my animals even when I explain that “Walter was a putz to my son’s dog yesterday” or “Brandon is developing into more of bully towards the other horses”. I ride what I love and love what I ride. My dogs, well, they’re part of the family as are the horses.
I have far more patience with my and others’ animals than with humans. My adult children will be the first to say that at times they weren’t sure if the animals came before them in the hierarchy of the family, though to be honest I would have given my life for any of my kids then and now. To be clear I am far more worried and care greater as to how my animals see me and respond to me than I care about any single human’s assessment of my relationship with my animals based on the vocabulary I use.
Lisa King just posted this on her FB page and I thought of this thread:
A horse’s behavior is a mirror of their past associations, and present circumstances….
…and, If we put a human interpretation on a horse’s behavior, it says more about us then it does about them.
Just like you and I, horses life experiences are recorded by the brain and given physical and emotional associations.
They have some of the same basic parts of the brain as us, the reptilian brain: in charge of automatic functions like breathing, digestion, fight and flight etc… and the limbic system responsible for memory and emotion. But they don’t have the same cerebral cortex as us that is responsible for complex thought, ego, building a jet, or…. plotting against someone.
So UNLIKE you and I, the horse doesn’t create a story around a situation, hold grudges, manipulate, or intentionally be difficult. They also don’t dwell in the past or future the way we do.
They don’t have the part of the brain responsible for that type of thinking.
If something appears in the PRESENT moment that they have a past experience or association to, they will respond in the manner that that experience was impressioned.
If they have no familiar experience, they will usually respond with apprehension or worry, as the self-preservation of a prey animal…unless they feel SAFE enough to be curious and confident.
Learn to read your horses behavior as a guide to what they NEED from you, not as a personal attack. They are not capable of being a “jerk”, “difficult”, “stubborn” or any other expletives that people use. Mares are not “nasty”, breeds are not “crazy”….
AND, unlike humans, they don’t have an ego. The ego is the “I” or self identity of any person; not just a term for inflated personalities.
Everyone has an ego, and if we place an egoic interpretation onto THEM, it is really just a projection of something in US!
Projection of the self is what the human brain does without conscious awareness…unless you learn to become aware of it, and even then it’s tricky.
So be careful the next time you call your horse a name or interpret an “egoic behavior” of your horse, you’re likely just revealing you’re own dirty laundry, and none of it has to do with your horse…. Mirror, Mirror.
So, in conclusion……
A horse’s behavior is a mirror of past association or present circumstances…
….An EGO based interpretation of horse behavior is a mirror of something in you.
#anthropomorphic #ego #horsemanship
My mare absolutely holds a grudge. Not in quite the same way as a human. But she once waited 2 hours to bite me. And she creates narratives about things, and then plays them out. She manipulates and tricks me in small ways to get things she wants. Animals definitely have a sense of self. They make things happen. They train their humans. They can generalize.
Now I can generally outsmart her because I do have that prefrontal cortex thing going on. And I don’t call her names for having a mind of her own. It’s more useful to tell her how wonderful she is, because she likes that.
She wants different things than a person, obviously. And the entire intelligence of a horse is different from a human. But there is definitely a brain in there, it isn’t just 100 per cent reacting in the moment to stimuli.
Dogs are different. I regularly tell my dog she’s the worst dog ever. In a scolding tone of voice. How many times must I tell her that the daily Twight Bark participation with the neighbor dogs is not cool?
To be sure, my Mal isn’t heartbroken over my scolding. My horse might faint if I was that hard on him lol.
For me, I recently told the saddle fitter that my horse was being a jerk. Not that he is a jerk, but was being a jerk.
At this point in his life, he understands the aids and sometimes choses to ignore them. Or say “that’s not what we just did and so you must be wrong”. That’s his personality. He’s super smart, super spooky and yet super lazy when it comes to expending energy when he’s relaxed. When he’s on edge, hang on!
No, he didn’t volunteer for what I do with him (dressage). He loves interacting with people. He could be having a much, much poorer life with another owner. His job, which is to be ridden 4 hours out of the week when the rest of his life is great with 24/7 turnout in his own 1+ acre well maintained pasture surrounded by buddies isn’t bad. I don’t feel bad for him and expect him him to meet expectations when he’s being ridden. It isn’t that hard for him. He lifts his hind leg when I scratch his sheath or navel. Who else would do this?
I know he takes advantage of my “sucker-ness”. We “talk” about this all the time. He says “I can’t do this” and I say “yes you can” and he’ll say “OK, I can to this”. He’s crazy athletic but wants to be lazy unless he’s wary of whatever.
I do agree with your sentiment that labeling a horse as “a jerk” or “a turd” reflects on the owner/trainer’s attitude towards that horse that they may bring to their interaction with that horse. And that’s never good.
A lady at my barn always comments that my horse is “different,” “doesn’t act normal,” and is “weird.” I finally asked her to stop doing this-- while I was crying-- because I thought these terms were a. a reflection of me personally (I am really different) and b. negative terms to my horse.
It made me think of something a former trainer said to me about not speaking ill about our horses. I used to call a previous horse “crazy” because other people called her that. She was really difficult and was extremely reactive. I wasn’t allowed to cal her negative terms anymore; instead, I could only speak calmly towards her and deal with the situation at hand.
I also think of what Buck Brannaman has said about horses; we can’t blame the horse for any behavior we might not like. That should be reflected in our language to them. I try to be objective about horses, although that’s difficult. Instead, I turn the blame to the human. 
