How do you train out a behind the bit problem?

[IPEsq]

@lenapesadie

I was just looking at the Duo. I kinda think he would want more tongue relief. His tongue seems thick to me. I’ll check the trust out too. Thanks again!

I have found that they wind up becoming a bit arched with a little bit of use, bending a little bit forward and a little bit upward in the middle. They are also shaped for a little bit of tongue relief, but a more tongue relief shape does start to take hold. So to me, it seems that it’s so soft that while it does lay more across the whole mouth compared to a ported bit, it’s so soft that it isn’t too much for many tongue sensitive horses and the horse can kind of put it where it wants. But there are other bits, including some of the medium to rigid rubber bits that have some more tongue relief built in.

My most tongue sensitive horse went in the Nathe once… and at first he chewed a lot and was trying to figure out the thickness…then, in the canter I could see the lightbulb go off in his head that mom had no brakes, and while we both survived, we went back to his HS Dynamic RS snaffle.

[enjoytheride]

I take the contact no matter where it is. This means I don’t take pictures because someone on the internet is going to accuse me of Rolkur or something ridiculous. Then I go forward and push the horse out. I’ve found it to be the best method on horses taught in a western manner or breeds that have curling necks.

If you don’t take the contact some horses would happily go around behind the bit and behind the vertical forever while you rode around on a loose rein waiting for them. Even if you added leg.

[lenapesadie]

That’s good to know about the Duo kinda molding into a shape. I’ve looked at some Mullen bits that have more of a port and thought I dunno that might be too high over his tongue. I’m likely over thinking it but I know for a fact the horse is super sensitive. It would be easier if horse could speak English and tell me which he liked more in words lol.

Lol about your horse realizing you had no brakes. Glad you both pulled through that.

[Posting_Trot]

The Duo and the Nathe are both very pliable, so they don’t give tongue relief in the usual sense (having a defined port that goes over the tongue), but they’re lightweight and tend to be soft in the horse’s mouth.

The British store The Bit Bank has a good selection of bits, including different Nathes: https://www.horsebitbank.com/brands/nathe

I’ve ordered from them before and they’ve been very good. (They also carry Sprenger Duos).

Another possibility would be to go with a baucher bit: a lot of horses prefer the stability of a baucher in the mouth.

[Bogey2]

I have used the Neue schule single joint “Anky” with great success.

[Graymaresrule]

Dressage extensions and Mikmar used to offer bit trials

[lenapesadie]

I’ll def check out the Baucher. Thank you for sharing! My horse definitely prefers single joint mouthpieces over double jointed and / or loose rings so maybe an indication he likes something still. I think he’d like a thinner mouthpiece with tongue relief. He’s a bit of a diva about equipment in general (not that I’m any better )!

[lenapesadie]

Adding to list to check out! Thanks so much!

[lenapesadie]

Bit trials would be ideal!

[Graymaresrule]

It seems that dressage extensions has discontinued the program but I googled horse bit trial and there were several others to choose from.

[IPEsq]

You likely won’t be able to do a trial on any of the rubber, plastic or other soft bits. Just because it can be so easy to cause chew damage. But some places do trials or otherwise offer returns. Just check policies.

[lenapesadie]

@IPEsq

likely won’t be able to do a trial on any of the rubber, plastic or other soft bits

I thought that might be an issue. On the bright side, bits don’t take much room to store.

[Graymaresrule]

It also might be worth a try an anatomical bridle

[Rosewatt]

Now that you say it…makes a lot more sense LMAO

[lenapesadie]

Definitely on the list!

[SimplyLoveHorses]

Here’s a podcast I did regarding this issue:

"Behind The Vertical?" Here's How to Troubleshoot and Fix This Common Issue...

[IPEsq]

After riding in a Nathe loose ring for a while, I finally got a Trust flexi soft eggbutt. They’d been on manufacture back order. Ride one for the horse I mentioned above was fantastic. He was pretty fresh and so I needed a little stronger feel of the contact, and he was great! I did not have too much leaning or too much ducking behind. And we even made some fairly round circles! It was a nice feeling and he responded well so I could channel the fresh energy into good things versus doing damage control or having him evade. Big thumbs up for this bit!

[Pico_Banana]

How does the Trust bit compare to the Nathe? I am riding my mare in a Duo, but am looking for something similar in a Boucher and they have this:

TRUST equestrian Inno Sense Flexi Soft Hanging cheek

I’m wondering if the the Boucher might add some stability that would encourage steadier contact.

[IPEsq]

Mouthpiece is similar. With the eggbutt, I have more stability and a little more side to side stability for steering as well.