How does a horse change between weanling and 3 year old?

[Lord_Helpus]

I have been looking for an exciting horse with potential to move up the levels in dressage. Because my budget is small, I have been looking at yearlings and even weanlings.

But I am worried about buying too young a horse because I have little experience in “seeing the mature horse” inside the baby’s body. My one experience has been with my boy Petey, who had long legs and was a freaky good mover at 6 months old.

By the time he was 2 his legs had become short in proportion to his body and he was no longer a jaw-droppingly good mover.

Perhaps I should have known better than to expect that I would end up with a grown up version of baby Petey, but I didn’t. He surprised me.

Are there guidelines to consider when looking at a weanling? Petey had (has) short pasterns so should I have known that his legs would be short, since joints close from the ground on up? Conversely, will long pasterns = long legs? And what about neck set? Many babies have high neck sets, yet have average --> low necks when grown.

Also, many babies are camped out behind, yet a much smaller % end up camped out behind. Is there a way to determine which you have? — And built uphill. Many babies are. But few horses are still uphill when fully mature.

Obviously, I will be looking at pictures of the sire and the dam, but neither of Petey’s parents could have foreshadowed his grown-up self.

Any help is appreciated.

[ladyj79]

This is why many people buy purpose bred horses from well established bloodlines, and why dabbling with F1 crosses can be a complete craps shoot.

So the best way to know what a weanling or yearling is going to look like is to start with an established breed/registry program and only then look at the particular bloodlines/family.

F1s are really very very unpredictable. While there can be a surprise in long established breeding programs, they are pretty rare.

[Lord_Helpus]

Thanks for that. I am looking at Hanoverians (and an occasional Oldenburg that pops up). And within the Hanoverian registry, I am only considering certain established lines. But one picture I saw intrigued me and I asked for a recent video. Other than the markings, I would never have known it was the same horse. Perhaps it was going through a (really) ugly phase and would come out the other side — but it scared me that I might buy a darling weanling and end up with less than I had expected.

[ladyj79]

Oh I should also say and I am sure it’s something you know but someone else coming to this thread may not that some horses ugly phases come at different points during maturity haha and that some lines take longer to mature than others, especially if it’s a bigger three year old. So I might buy an ugly three year old from one of those lines, especially if it’s from an established breeding program with older siblings.

[Justice]

If I was looking for a dressage weanling that was outstanding, I would email the registries and ask about high scoring foals. The European registries that you are looking at are breeding in great part for dressage, and they will have the best eye for potential as a weanling. I have no clue if they would discuss them, but they are so nice it certainly can’t hurt to ask. Doesn’t mean it will be for sale, but certainly worth a shot!

[maybesmom]

Is there such a thing as a darling weanling or yearling? I have 2 young horses that I’ve bred myself and while they were beautiful babies and beautiful again when they were 3 year olds, I remember looking at them as weanlings and yearlings (didn’t help in the winter when they lived out , were hairy and rolled in mud) and asking myself whether I had made a mistake when I decided to breed. Horses like humans go through some ugly stages when they are growing up. Breed registries like the KWPN don’t even get xrays for registration until the horses are 2, so I think there are a lot of things you really can’t tll with a weanling or yearling. I don’t know if I would buy a horse based on whether or not it looked cute as a weanling. I might buy an ugly weanling or yearling that moved really well, came from a good breeder and was well bred with good feet and a clean bill from a vet that knew something about young horses.

[beowulf]

It can be really hard to assess a foal’s talent - as you discovered, IME, foals move better than they will at any other point in their life (barring extreme cases of gait modification through consistent, correct training). It’s because they’re so little and loose with long legs, I think. It’s not uncommon for a horse to not move as well as an adult as they did as a foal.

I think one of the better ways to assess what the foal’s adult movement will be like is to look hard at the dam - then look at the stallion. The foals that I have witnessed grow up have ended up settling much closer to the mare’s spectrum of movement than the sire’s, though some have surprised me. I’ve seen improvements over both sire+dam in some foals too, which is always a pleasant surprise.

There’s a saying in the horse world about looking at them as 3 months old and then not again until they’re 3 years - they can and DO go through awkward stages during growth.

You can also familiarize yourself with bloodlines - IE, if you were looking at a Fuerstenball colt, perhaps you’d familiarize yourself with other horses by him… I mention him because I think he tends to pass on a very potent and consistent type, so you can get a fairly good idea of what the foal might develop into.

[pony_grandma]

What they say, it takes a lifetime to learn. And worst part, when breeding, the time and expense to learn by raising the foal to actually go through and see the development process. AND not with just ONE foal … oy vey!

I had one foal that was born balanced and stayed balanced every day since then. He was the prettiest baby, never an ugly fugly day of growth. I have a coming 3 yr old right now 3/4 WB and 1/4 TB and pertinent to the breeding discussion he has that cross thing that can sprout up. He has a Bolder Ruler head and a Secretariat stride. The scopiest thing I have ever seen. His length of stride and the ease is stunning. He’s a throwback, as they say. With the WB qualities of bone and impulsion.

I’ve had 2 full siblings that looked completely different.

My advice when looking at growthy youngens is to look at how they use themselves. Do they move and step up underneath themselves and carry naturally. Do they track and stand straight, front legs not back behind but straight from their shoulder pt of support. Do their angles match. I would definitely agree to shop 3 yr olds.

[Pennywell_Bay]

Not being glib- my super fancy, well bred foal tried to kill herself 3 times from 6 months to 2.5 years (for whatever reason, she is “accident prone”, as NONE of the other foals I have had have done these type of things). Her last injury is one that left a permanent scar (she basically degloved her hind leg).

Next time, I’ll buy a young horse and then worry about if it’s suicidal or not.

The one thing I don’t think anyone has mentioned, sometimes they look like they toe in but as their chest fills out, their legs straighten. All of my foals have been cute movers and stayed such (even the suicidal filly).

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

Usually they toe out as foals, not in and then straighten. IME if they already toe in they will toe in more when an adult and the chest widens.

[JB]

The alternative to the lower budget now, and looking at weanlings/yearlings, is to start saving all the money you’d spend raising that youngster to riding age, throw in an extra bit for the likely emergency at some point along the way, and in 2-3 years, buy an unbacked, or just backed if the budget allows, 3yo.

And yes, a weanling should be toeing out from the chest down (as opposed to knee or fetlock down), and even well into the yearling year for many of them. Chests widening rotate the legs inward, so you don’t want to start with a weanling who already toes in, or is straight.

[Fairview_Horse_Cente]

Youngsters at 3-5 months will give you a good idea of the finished product, but you may not see that again until 4-5.

From what I have seen the mature horse is an even better mover than the foal, as long as the riding (style) has not interfered with the movement.

[Cranberry]

The yearling filly I purchased is now coming 6. She really hasn’t changed much! She scored into the low 80s at the dressage sport breeding shows as a yearling, and has the same scores at materiale. Similar results with her national placings in the yearling sport horse breeding classes and with her mare performance test at age 4 (both in top 5). To me it seems she has been very consistent in type and performance. This is the first time I’ve purchased a youngster, so not sure how typical this is! She is Westfalen registered.

[winter]

In my experience the trot is often flashier and has way more suspension as a foal but the canter develops a bit more quality as they strengthen. Neck set was very consistent for mine, what they had as a foal was what they end up with. Mine seem to get the neck more from the mare than the stallion (totally anecdotal) . Length of leg is definitely deceiving; they have to have really long legs as a foal to end up that way as a mature horse. You are also right about the pasterns, they will appear quite long as a foal to be average as an adult. You can get an idea of whether they will have a more rectangular frame or more square but it’s hard. I also think they chute jump better at 2/3 than at any other time.
I have a lot of pictures of foals then same one again at 3/4 if you want to see any.

[winter]

In my experience the trot is often flashier and has way more suspension as a foal but the canter develops a bit more quality as they strengthen. Neck set was very consistent for mine, what they had as a foal was what they end up with. Mine seem to get the neck more from the mare than the stallion (totally anecdotal) . Length of leg is definitely deceiving; they have to have really long legs as a foal to end up that way as a mature horse. You are also right about the pasterns, they will appear quite long as a foal to be average as an adult. You can get an idea of whether they will have a more rectangular frame or more square but it’s hard. I also think they chute jump better at 2/3 than at any other time.
I have a lot of pictures of foals then same one again at 3/4 if you want to see any.

[Dutchmare433]

I can send you pics of my guy if you want to PM me. I have night he was born, a few days old, around 3 months, yearling (he’s ugly as anything in these), a few throughout 2 year old year, more through three year old year, and I can snap one now that he’s coming 4, though he’s a bit hairy.

[Dr_Doolittle]

Another potentially helpful hint: often the babies who don’t go through obvious awkward, growthy stages (where they look like they were “assembled by committee”) may wind up being smaller at maturity - and (obviously!) look at the parents and grandparents, as well as get by the sire, especially if he has a lot of babies on the ground. Not all sires are stampers, of course…

Or at least that’s my limited experience, having bred all of two ;), but I have also done a TON of research. (Thank you, COTH!)

[JB]

My hair-shy-of-17h WB was always a very pretty, graceful youngster (when he moved, as “still” and “slow” were, and still are, his favorite modes :D). He was also a first-born. So he definitely throws a wrench into both of those lol

[winter]

[QUOTE=Dr. Doolittle;9032580]
Another potentially helpful hint: often the babies who don’t go through obvious awkward, growthy stages (where they look like they were “assembled by committee”) may wind up being smaller at maturity - and (obviously!) look at the parents and grandparents, as well as get by the sire, especially if he has a lot of babies on the ground. Not all sires are stampers, of course…

Or at least that’s my limited experience, having bred all of two ;), but I have also done a TON of research. (Thank you, COTH!)[/QUOTE]

This has been my experience as well, the ones who looked like mature horses early on ended up smaller. My pony sized coming 3 year old and small-ish coming 5 year old always looked the same pretty much through their yearling and two year old years.

[Dr_Doolittle]

Yes, more like “finished horses” ^^ as youngsters (not that all youngsters don’t go through awkward stages!)

I WANTED a smaller horse when I bred my mare, so that worked for me :), but it not everyone is looking for something under 16 hands…