How does one bring along an equitation/derby prospect?

[Nickelodian]

I bought a young horse with the intention of doing the hunters. He jumps as good as anything I’ve owned, has a great brain, great way of going, lovely canter, and did I mention a great jump? However, he does not have the look of the hunter, or the trot. He’s a little thick, head isn’t pretty enough, expression is a little dull. That’s just him.

I had originally geared him toward the jumper ring, as I think the horse could leap tall buildings in a single bound. He has scope for days, and a great hind end. But his way of going is slow over the jumps and smooth. Honestly I think he might be best suited for the big eq. He LOOKS like that type. I think he could also dabble in the derbies with his jump and with unconventional horses being better scored in that arena.

Being a solid ammy-owner with equitation being the last thing I’d ever want to think about doing again, what do I do with this beast? He’s not ready to be sold as an eq prospect now (way too green), but without a real home in the hunter ring, I’m unsure of what direction to go.

Do I continue showing in baby jumpers with the goal of making him an eq horse? Shift to the pre green hunters for 2017 knowing that he’s not quite the type? Do a little of both knowing he’ll have to be suitable for both jobs as an eq horse some day?

I know how to bring along the hunter, and I know how to bring along the jumper, but I am a little at a loss on what to do with this one.

Video for visual assistance:

Course with my trainer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgkPXpE44xg

Left Lead:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gVLtsSwlRs

Trot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOrzEI-Ktd0

Right Lead:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6NUl5H56W8

Baby Jumpers from back in the summer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T8u7kg0TDo

[beowulf]

He looks like he’d make a great eventer :lol: I know, not helpful. Just curious, do you know his breeding? I love him!

[fordtraktor]

I would do jumpers. As the fences get bigger a careful horse is more important than a super fast horse. If it turns it will still be fast!

[hunterrider33]

He definitely has the look of an Eq horse, I think the jumpers would be best for gearing him up for the Eq. It will teach him to be pretty adjustable and “handy”, that’s not to say he shouldn’t do some hunters or 3ft derbies when he’s ready, so he can see the hunter jumps, brave is key for an Eq horse. He could also do the 3ft adult Eq with you when he’s more broke as well
Good luck he looks like fun!

[greysfordays]

My only concern of his being an eq horse is he might not be “uphill” enough. It could be still has some developing to do, but I actually think he still has potential to be a good hunter. Maybe not winning indoors, but certainly very nice and with a good record, valuable.

I recently sold mine for a good bit of money, and mine actually had a more coarse head than yours, ears almost never forward. His major saving grace was that he is incredibly slow across the ground and spends forever in the air. He’s also scopey like yours.

Granted my guy almost always won the hack (with his ears to the side no matter what I tried), but still, I don’t find your horse’s trot offensive and his canter is certainly nice, which matters more. Mine ended up champion or reserve at every show we went to in California. So not WEF, but still solid company in the first years and low AOs.

To me, it looks like he has a LOVELY rhythm, which makes it easy to find the jumps. When selling to an amateur, that certainly counts for a lot, since that often wins the class at most show.

I think you should dabble in the pre-green hunters, play around with the 3’ equitation and spend some time with exercises that build his balance a little more.

[LucilleBluth]

I know you said you’re a solid A-O that doesn’t have eq on the brain, but why not try some of the 3ft adult medals?

[findeight]

Hmmmm…hard off videos, they can create illusions that aren’t really accurate.

But, I’d do a little of both and let him tell you where he needs to be aimed. He’s got a lot of jump but wonder if he’s going to be quick enough with his feet, you know, the best Jumpers are kind of catty to get the quick turns and make up for the fact they may not be very quick across the ground…and he’s not quick across the ground. Not now anyway.

Wouldnt go out of my way or spend a bunch to get him in a lot of Hunter classes but they do learn adjustability that way, big part of an Eq horse’s resume is adjustability and its easy mileage for them to get some 3’ Green Hunter mileage early on.

How old is he? Comes across as still on the immature side, who knows how he might develop with a little exposure in both rings? Like to see more film of him later in the spring after some more show outings. Interesting type.

Oh, absolutely do some 3’ Medals on him. Help him find where he wants to shine. He doesn’t know yet and neither do you.

[JustJump]

You have a trainer…what does your trainer say?

[Pennywell_Bay]

Do you still have your grey horse? (ok- just being nosy )

[Nickelodian]

Thanks everyone. To answer a few questions.

He is registered oldenburg by Wolkentanz II, damsire Eastern Ruler (Ramiro Z). He’s a 5yo now but had a late start in life. He was started in January, I got him 60 days under saddle in march barely cantering. To say he’s come a long way in 7 months is a huge understatement. That video in July, he was only undersaddle 4 months. He’s a good boy. His trot isn’t offensive, and he’s in steel, but a hack winner he does not make.

Slow across the ground and over the jumps hits the nail on the head. That’s why I bought him. And that jump. But he’s not a specialist which has me nervous. He does have a lovely rythym which carries you. And a step like you wouldn’t believe. He’s also brave. Right now he wants to get too low and pull down when things get challenging. But I think with strength and training that will certainly improve.

Trainers? I have four of them total if you count both barns. Their opinions are that he is a bit of an enigma, but clearly a nice horse. I come here to get some additional insight. If the trainers opinion was the only thing that mattered, this place wouldn’t exist.

Adult eq? Besides the fact that I hung up my eq spurs 10 years ago, it isn’t super popular in my zone. I’d have to do the adult hunters to go with it. Besides. Has anyone watched me ride???

Gray horse - yep still have him. Was on lease and won all over as a junior hunter in 2015 when I was miserably pregnant. Had him on a half lease that didn’t work out for the last 6 months. He’s back to me now and I plan to start showing him in 2017 when he will likely be for sale.

[findeight]

He’s not done maturing yet enough to be a “specialist”, but the remark above about him not being as uphill as many Eq specialists is dead on. He, right now, travels level to a smidge downhill. That screams Hunter and his jump is good and promises to be better over bigger fences. But who knows what might grow and how another 6 months of steady work will effect him physically?

Patience, and get him miles in everything…even Adult Eq. Good for you and sharpens him up for whatever lies ahead. Give him a chance at everything.

[JenEM]

Does one of the barns you work with have a junior that could do him in some of the 3’ medals at shows you’d be bringing him to anyway? Do him yourself in whatever your pleasure is–hunters or jumpers–and have the kid do him in a medal or two. Win-win for everyone, if the kid’s good. Usually the children’s medals are so much easier to fill than the adult ones, and if he does well, he’d probably get a lot more recognition out there among potential buyers looking for an eq horse, too.

[ElementFarm]

there’s a huge market for ammie hunters that have good jumps, and are easy, brave, and take a joke. They don’t have to win the hack class. And at the smaller rated shows and nicer schooling circuits around the country, he’d be very competitive in the hunters with more mileage. I think he’s worth developing further and will find the right home in time. I like him.

[Plumcreek]

Nice horse!
As a 5 year old, he has 2 years of growing to do, and coming up in shoulders can happen as a last growth step - did with mine.

I know you asked about what division, but my opinion is that showing in whatever at this point should come second to developing total body control through gymnastics and flatwork, which will be key if he wants to be an Eq horse as, all else being sort of equal, Eq is won between the fences, especially in a ride off. Body control and power steering does not hurt in hunters or jumpers either.

I would work on starting to teach him to raise his front when asked, i.e. rebalance from back to front, stepping deeper underneath and coming back and up to your hand when asked. I would also work on him following your exact track, with spiral in and spiral out shoulder and hip control exercises and nailing the center of ground pole chutes on turns. And, working toward multiple straight line changes. Should be a fun project.

[Railbird]

I think honestly over the fences he could be a very nice hunter- he’s not terribly appealing across the ground right now but he has the right pieces, just needs to put them together. It makes a lot of sense given how long you said he has been under saddle. I think with more schooling on the flat when he can hold a little more even pace without fussing with his mouth so much he will be very appealing. He reminds me a lot of a horse I used to have who took a while to come together but ended up competitive in the Juniors and AOs. I would give him a year in the hunters if you like him. If he’s still not coming together I think most equitation horses come from the jumpers to have the adjustability. I wouldn’t put him into any equitation or jumpers yet though- focus on straight, rhythm, relaxation, keeping the canter together. Start challenging him with the track after he gets those things.

[jhg140]

Oh man, love his canter. He looks so fun!

Honestly, if I saw him trot into the PG ring around here next year, I wouldn’t be offended. I think the pre greens are a good avenue, and maybe some training jumpers for giggles, too. He has a great jump, and I’ve seen some cart horse moving types do well over the jumps, so he should be fine. I think that naturally rhythmic, long and low canter and slow jump are just too good to waste as an eq horse.

[SidesaddleRider]

I like him a lot, and he has the look of an eq horse, but don’t see why he can’t do the hunters. However, to know if he can do the job, he needs a lot more fitness and a lot more schooling (as you well know). Admittedly, he is not in any way the hack winner, but I don’t really see him as a 1.20m+ jumper, either (although some horses have shocked the hell out of me as they got a lot stronger). He looks like he could develop into a solid 3’6" eq horse, or a consistent 3’-3’6" hunter, or derby horse, where his movement isn’t going to be so necessary at anything other than WEF and the other top shows.

If he was mine, I would spend the winter doing lots and lots of flat work and hill work (if you have it) and gymnastics to build up that hind end and get him off the forehand. For 2017, I would show him in the PGs, to start getting him mileage. I wouldn’t worry so much about taking him in the jumpers, as right now he needs to get more consistent and broke. If you have any good adults that can show him (since I know you like the A/Os), perhaps they could take him in the Adults and 3’ eq. As he gets fitter and stronger, he might surprise you.

[findeight]

Think he might be nicer as an AO Hunter…he’s a 3’6" type that 3’ fences aren’t going to give much of a showcase to. They don’t hack in the Derbies either. Course you want to start in what used to be the PGs at 3’.

You can teach a level, long, low type to get around a little bit in the Jumpers and Eq but you cannot teach an uphill one to get around the Hunters in the preferred style, the build isn’t there… And, to me, he’s got the parts and jump for the Hunter ring, even if he’s not the hack winner. Think he’s going to move a little better as he matures though, when he can power from his rear and really step up and under, that should lower the knee a little and let him move longer and lower.

Dont be too hard on his awkwardness and growing stages and worry he won’t be your next AO horse. Not now anyway.

[Nickelodian]

Again, thanks to everyone for the insightful feedback.

Trust me when I say I fully understand how unbroke he truly is. I sit on the beast (said so lovingly) as proof point. The good news is that he is the type that loves flat work, loves the intricacies of figuring out how to move his body, and he’s quite fun to work through those challenges on.

F8 - The reason I worry about him not being a specialist is that all of my others have screamed one way or the other. This one has me scratching my head, which isn’t a comfortable feeling.

Sidesaddle - I don’t mind the adults at all, if I came across any other way, my bad. I am not a huge eq/medal person (anymore), but that’s not to say that I wouldn’t do it to benefit my horse. Honestly I’d probably do Adults over (what used to be) PG. Easier to miss and still be in the ribbons.

I sent him to a show last week and this to try to see if I could get him sold now, since I got my gray horse back. Last week he did baby jumpers reasonably well. This week I told my trainer that it was her choice, hunters or jumpers. I just looked up the entries, and he’s in the baby greens…so I guess we will see how that goes! One thing I will say about the hunter jumps with fill, they take that jump in the video and improve it 100%. I’m hopeful they will get video of the BG rounds and I will share.

[Justice]

To me, this looks like a 3’6 hunter prospect that will double as a big eq horse. He is green but has a good canter. Does not need a fancy trot. I would do this one in the jumpers until he’s ready to step into a bigger Hunter ring. No point in giving him s medicre Hunter record. Do you have good local shows you can take him for cheap miles? Doing him in the jumpers will make him brave and rideable.