Yes, this was the area VI championship
No - of course not. But if we are going to keep using our beloved unpaid volunteers, the system in place to record and score needs to be bulletproof with less human error factor, which will reduce stress for volunteers, no doubt.
For example, and this is just off the top of my head so don’t pick it apart, the technology exists to record a path on XC with GPS (no internet needed) with many apps. If each rider carried their phone or watch or a tag on XC, the data could easily be seen to make sure it aligned with the course map to an accuracy of within feet. It would also potentially be a way to record times, and this technology is used at marathon races to show competitors in real time. https://rtrt.me/ for example
FEI now videos some jumps on XC from what I have seen, too. Actually, jump judges at the event in question were videoing some of the trickier jumps for at least the 3* and 4* divisions that I know of, using their own phone AFAIK. This seems like a big ask, but with how confident most people are videoing these days, perhaps not? And if they videoed, they’d have time to play back and zoom in to get numbers etc, reducing the pressure to do that in real time.
If you’re videoing fence 5, 6 and 7 and the rider passes 6, well… you can’t miss it. It will keep your eye focused on the horse and rider, vs potentially missing them because you’re busy writing something.
There’s probably another free way to prevent or reduce human error though - I’m sure some will find any cost prohibitive, and I’m personally not keen to add cost to a sport I already find very expensive.
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I am 100% in favor of official video’ing of cross country for the purposes of accurate scoring. The technology is there – fairly easily, at this point – and is less expensive than it has ever been.
The cost is not as huge as it once would have been. It’s honestly not at all overwhelming to implement, since so many people today have the basic skills that they use in daily life.
This would have to be explored, but possibly volunteers could even use their own device and transmit the results to a cloud. Many venues probably have sufficient connectivity for that.
Every major sport is ramping up technology to make their sport scoring and officiating cleaner and more accurate. It is removing a lot of the standard complaints and controversies, especially for things that change outcomes, change winners and orders of placing.
Especially as UL eventing has shown that it would like to be more of a feature in general audience sport. If that interest continues, video’ing for accurate scoring becomes an even more important idea.
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There IS NO WAY you’re going to get a volunteer to sit in the sun for 8 to 12 hours, bring their own chair, sunscreen, and bug spray, pee in a bush, learn to use a radio properly, write down each person and their stops/clears, use their own phone to record 80 rides, and only give them a warm sandwich and a T shirt in exchange. Many shows barely get enough volunteers as it is to run.
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This thread made it pretty darn easy to figure out the event, division and rider in question and then go find the video. I was expecting that the fence series in question was in a fairly isolated area and it wasn’t super obvious what had happened— but was shocked to see that there were actually multiple people right around that area watching her closely and the track took was CLEARLY the wrong track. She should have landed off 13, made a slight turn and gone up a hill to 14, jumped and made another slight turn and back down a hill to 15, which was on level ground. Instead, she just continued on a straight line path from 13 to 15.
If a jump judge missed it, ok. Mistakes happen. But multiple people had to have noticed that. And the rider herself didn’t admit to her wrong after the fact, seriously? This wasn’t a schooling show.
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I’ve got my tar, feather, and matches ready to burn this rider at the stake, drag her through the mud, and make her regret ever taking up eventing and have leapt to all conclusions before ever reaching out to her in private about this situation because she is a bad horrible person who deserves to be torn apart on a internet BB.
Some of you are the reason our sport is struggling to find entries and volunteers.
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They were just spectators, that is all.
It wasn’t their role to know how it was being scored. Or if it was being scored. Not something they ever would have noticed.
They may or may not have ever looked at the scoring. Looked to see how this particular rider number was scored, which they may not have noticed. I have watched tons of XC without ever looking at scores.
If a TD came around asking if someone saw it, they would have answered. I’m not sure that is something that is even allowed for a TD? To ask someone, a witness, who is not officially part of scoring?
There is zero reason to expand the circle of blame.
Crime scene reconstruction is not productive. The point of discussing it is as a learning for the future.
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Nah - she’s obviously got no idea she made an error of course, and nobody should be blaming her in the least. It will happen to ALL of us one day!
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You’re right—and I wasn’t trying to imply there should be crime scene reconstruction or expanded blame, but I poorly communicated my shock that it happened in the first place. I guess I was just was expecting something different/much less obvious on the video.
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I don’t think my own phone has enough storage to do that, and I am sure the battery would be fully dead by mid day.
And does this cloud transfer thing require me to have a certain app or a certain device?
So now to volunteer I need a certain device and charging capabilities. Good luck with that.
I will add, it takes quite a bit of ability/coordination to record a reasonably good video and watch that same thing at the same time.
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I have wondered before if AI would be a useful tool for show organizers.
We’re supposed to get t-shirts??? 
Kidding – but volunteer swag seems to be something of the past unless it’s a major event. I think the last t-shirt I got was at Full Gallop 13 years ago… Which is horrifying to me because it doesn’t feel that long ago.
I record each ride, but I cheat. I make SO come with me for the day. He will grab the video while I watch the rider. Most organizers don’t love having two able bodied people do one job and try to split couples, but I insist, because volunteering is way more fun with another person.
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I like some of those suggestions but I don’t think they’re as easy to implement as you’re suggesting. You’d have to require every rider to supply their own tag or have the shows provide them for all competitors, which increases overall costs, plus the shows would have to have the tech to actually ingest and track the data. Existing devices might not be compatible with whatever software each show used to track the data, so it’s not as easy as just having people keep their phones on them.
Jump judges videoing from their own devices isn’t really practical either. My phone battery probably wouldn’t last a full day, and it’d be really hard to sort through all those videos to find just the one rider in question. Or you’d have to send all the videos to the controller which would be pretty big files in areas that don’t always have good cell service. You wouldn’t necessarily be able to see the rider’s number from a distance/through a car window so it probably wouldn’t solve these problems anyway.
The current system works well the majority of the time. Could we do better in some instances? Sure. But it’d be hard to effectively implement something more foolproof than what we have now without increasing costs or making things harder on the volunteers and staff who are already in short supply.
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Yes, the TD is allowed to ask any witnesses. But something or someone needs to trigger the TD investigation in the first place.
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I want to add to this, but did not want to edit since it has been up for a bit.
Lots of volunteers are not technology savvy, or might not have a fancy smart phone with all the bells and whistles.
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When it’s done for FEI rides currently, I believe they provide a loaner battery pack?
Anyway, it’s a current practice. I don’t know the details of how it works, but apparently it does.
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Folks discussing the barriers to using more technology, since there are several posts by now …
People seem a bit worried. It’s just a general idea to explore, a suggestion by a couple of people. Nobody has asked anyone to do anything yet.
Obviously if something isn’t workable, it won’t be implemented. Volunteers won’t be asked to things that aren’t reasonable. Some other very general ideas I’ve thought about are too un-formed to go into here.
I merely wanted to mention my support of exploring it. 
Maybe a dedicated thread if there are people interested in discussing ideas.
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I know some people choose to do it but I don’t think it’s a mandated practice at any events. I know some of the upper level events will set up official cameras on jumps they think could cause problems so they have the footage, and many of them are live streaming anyway. I could be wrong though, I’m sure someone on here has volunteered at an event where that’s happening that can fill us in.
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You’ve never seen the blowback when an event that always has T shirts doesn’t order enough for the Volunteers!
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I guess not!! I am thrilled enough if they feed me. Air fern over here.
Years ago Groton House and Stoneleigh Burnham did outfit their volunteer crew with shirts. But… both of those are gone now. My GH shirt bit the dust a long time ago, but you will pry my early 2000s SBS Jump Crew shirt out of my cold dead hands. It’s pink!
I cannot remember the last shirt I received as a volunteer, though. I really think the 2010 FG was it. It’s probably just not economically viable anymore. Or I’m volunteering for the wrong events.
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King Oak had tshirts 
I also got tshirts at Course Brook ~5-6 years ago, but that was more hit or miss, they didn’t always have them.
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