[QUOTE=meupatdoes;7049589]
This same logic applies to the clients.
If Daddy Warbucks client is the primary beneficiary of the hotel with their 5 horses, why should Sally Small Bucks subsidize their per horse “trainer hotel” cost?[/QUOTE]
Ah, yes. Valid point.
[QUOTE=Only By Night;7049663]
More horses = more grooms.
More horses does not = higher trainer expenses with regards to hotel/food/travel. [/QUOTE]
I originally was with the split by rider for trainers hotel/food/travel expenses but - ahh this is where it can get tricky -
If you have more horses then - YES you can require more trainer expenses such as an assistant due to Daddy Warbucks bringing more horses and Sally Smallbucks bringing only one.
So if the trainer needs an assistant or more; then the trainer should charge per horse.
I’m with Huntermom on this one. It should be fair as possible. As a rider that brings one horse and has to watch my check book I don’t want to be nickled and dimed EITHER!!! I should not pay for grooms and stalls for other horses.
[QUOTE=AmmyByNature;7049689]
Not more expenses, but more WORK. If the trainer is working 5x harder for you than for me, you should pay 5x the expenses required to keep her/him functioning.
(I’ll grant that the groom example wasn’t the best - it’s hard for me to come up with an example, because it just seems so obvious to me that ALL expenses should be split per horse. The trainer is there for 5 horses - it doesn’t matter how many riders. Those 5 horses are going to be doing 5 different things, and her cost should be divided 5 different ways.)[/QUOTE]
But the people will more horses ARE paying more for causing the trainer more work. If the trainer’s daily “coaching fee” for a show is $75, Sally is going to pay $75 for her one horse and Daddy Warbucks is going to pay $375 for his five horses. To me, that needn’t transcend into the hotel fees, because they are concrete and are a set rate regardless.
[QUOTE=lauriep;7049421]
I have mine done per OWNER. Each OWNER pays the same % of tack/grooming stalls, hotel, meals. # of horses doesn’t affect these charges, and each owner pays for the appropriate # of stalls for their horses.
As far as training/coaching, that is also nilled(by me) to each OWNER. If one owner has three horses, they are billed for Junior’s time with three horses. But those type charges aren’t done by %.[/QUOTE]
I would submit that this really isn’t fair. You may want to reconsider. The horses are where the costs come in - shavings, feed, grooming stalls, feed stalls, etc., etc., etc. Those costs are per horse, not per person. By your rationale, if 10 horses go to a show and 9 of them are owned by one person, but 1 is owned by another person, that poor person with one horse is going to be heavily subsidizing the cost for the other person to have their 9 horses at a show. If I were the one person with one horse, no way would I go to that show!
[QUOTE=AmmyByNature;7049656]
Lets parallel it to the grooms.
if it’s just me, I need zero grooms, but lets just say one. If it’s me a daddy warbucks, we need three grooms. So the grooms food and hotel should obviously be split by horses, no, because they wouldn’t all be there if there weren’t so many horses?
If you agree with that, it seems obvious that the trainer is no different.
And if you don’t agree with that, then I suppose we’re just going to have to agree to disagree! No worries - we wouldn’t be horse people if we didn’t disagree about something![/QUOTE]
Yes, I totally agree on the grooms! Two people with one horse each might need one groom, total. Two people with 10 horses between them may need at least 2 grooms. If one of the two people in the second scenario has one horse, and the other person has the remaining nine, it isn’t fair to charge the person with one horse half the cost of two grooms.
They do get compensated for that work by billing for day fees and riding/showing.
I was quoted here so I feel the need to weigh in, haha. I was speaking directly to the trainer’s own personal hotel/travel/food expenses. If a higher number of horses should require an assistant, I think the only fair way to divide that is per horse, as you would for grooms.
[QUOTE=Only By Night;7049711]
But the people will more horses ARE paying more for causing the trainer more work. If the trainer’s daily “coaching fee” for a show is $75, Sally is going to pay $75 got her one horse and Daddy Warbucks is going to pay $375 for his five horses. To me, that needn’t transcend into the hotel fees, because they are concrete and are a set rate regardless.[/QUOTE]
I would agree with this UNLESS the trainer brings assistants that cost more because of the need, then the trainer/assistant travel expenses should be split per HORSE.
Aren’t shavings (people keep bringing them up) billed directly to the individual horse/stall? (I always bring my own but I see the line for it on the entry blank.)
[QUOTE=Only By Night;7049721]
I was quoted here so I feel the need to weigh in, haha. I was speaking directly to the trainer’s own personal hotel/travel/food expenses. If a higher number of horses should require an assistant, I think the only fair way to divide that is per horse, as you would for grooms.[/QUOTE]
Agree. And I think that’s where some of the division here comes from. As a client I would like to see my barn be as fair as possible. And I think as long as I as a client feel I am being treated as fair as possible then all is good.
I can’t believe you pay for the trainers food. If said trainer stayed at home, I think they would eat.
[QUOTE=Flypony;7049745]
I can’t believe you pay for the trainers food. If said trainer stayed at home, I think they would eat.[/QUOTE]
When I travel for work they pay for my food too. And yes, I would eat at home, but if I was not traveling I would not be eating out three times per day. I would be eating out of my own kitchen three times per day (I bring my lunch).
For the record, my trainer never charged us for food. Shrug. But he also did not charge day fees to those of us who did all our own work. Economy showing at its best.
[QUOTE=trubandloki;7049727]
Aren’t shavings (people keep bringing them up) billed directly to the individual horse/stall? (I always bring my own but I see the line for it on the entry blank.)[/QUOTE]
A lot of times, they are part of the trainer splits.
[QUOTE=Flypony;7049745]
I can’t believe you pay for the trainers food. If said trainer stayed at home, I think they would eat.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but, at home trainer can go to the grocery store and make food for themselves. If trainer is staying in a hotel, they must eat out, which is very expensive, especially if the trainer does this 30 weeks out of the year. Even if the trainer stays in their RV (mine does) and can bring their own groceries and cook for themselves, clients often want to visit expensive restaurants to celebrate Friday or Saturday night after a big class, and this, too can add up week after week. I think that paying for the trainer’s meals if they stay in a hotel or their dinner if they stay in an RV and the barn goes to a 4 * restaurant one night is only fair. Otherwise it actually costs the trainer a significant amount of money to work at the show, where they are trying to make money.
At our barn, clients split horse expenses (grooms, tack stalls, stalls, shavings) by horse and other expenses (trainer lodging, trainer food) by rider.
This gets a bit more complex, however, if a working student comes along to show as well. Then, because the working student actually does work for clients (preventing the barn from having to hire another groom, because WS can set fences, ground crew, and run errands while groom tacks up/washes horses) the clients cover some of WS’s expenses (as this is cheaper than the 2nd groom). So, what usually happens is WS covers actual expenses they incur: classes, stall, feed, bedding, show fees, and clients cover anything else: trainer lodging, trainer meals, extra day care charges for WS’s horse, etc.
Splits are done by horse even those expenses generated by the staff.
The more horses that go require more staffing which leads to higher expenses.
[QUOTE=maigenesis;7048830]
My barn does ‘trainer splits’ between riders.
I have not shown in a while, so my opinion may not matter, but essentially you are just asking your trainer to come down to the show with you (and therefore have to pay their room/board). The number of horses you are bringing should not matter unless the trainer would be leaving earlier/arriving later if your horse(s) were not showing on the first/last day, which would still not be typical.[/QUOTE]
Only for trainer splits (hotel/travel/food), are they divided by rider.
Show splits (tack stalls, grain, hay, etc) are divided by horse.
It really seems to me that trainer splits ought to be divided among riders. I would fully expect that groom, tack stall,etc be split per horse. I pay a lot in additional training fees per horse. I am a good customer and am sick of feeling like a cash cow for people who really probably wouldn’t go to the shows if I were not going. FWIW I did address this last season and she agreed to change the expenses to be split per rider, however she seems to have forgotten that conversation. I will probably be looking for a new barn soon.
I don’t understand why trainer splits should be done per rider. I assume that if a rider has two horses, they are riding in more classes, and taking up more trainer time. As a rider in a barn with other riders with multiple horses, they definitely receive more trainer time. It would seem yo me that maintaining the split on horses for the trainer is the fairest way. Unless I’m missing something. And herd bound, I really don’t understand your comment on how other people wouldn’t show I’d you didn’t. I’m curious! Not trying to be argumentative…trying to understand the argument. Thank you!
[QUOTE=jr;7050415]
I don’t understand why trainer splits should be done per rider. I assume that if a rider has two horses, they are riding in more classes, and taking up more trainer time. As a rider in a barn with other riders with multiple horses, they definitely receive more trainer time. It would seem yo me that maintaining the split on horses for the trainer is the fairest way. Unless I’m missing something. And herd bound, I really don’t understand your comment on how other people wouldn’t show I’d you didn’t. I’m curious! Not trying to be argumentative…trying to understand the argument. Thank you![/QUOTE]
I have heard others at barns not want to go to a particular show if so and so isn’t going because the more horses that go the more of a split so the cost is going to be less the more horses go.
I know I am not the OP, but I have heard of this too.
I’ve always been billed this way…
Trainer and groom accommodations/food split per rider.
Horse show related expenses (stalls, tack stalls, etc) split per horse.
As for grooms; each horse is charged a ‘groom day fee’ no matter how much ‘groom time’ each horse receives it is the same.
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