How far can I go in showjumping?

[MustangTwist]

@Madison

Edited to add - Realistically, careers often get in the way of going as far as you can. At some point you have to decide that is or isn’t ok, or accept it if that’s the only means of funding it. It is really hard to have it all, unfortunately, you just have to decide what compromises are the acceptable ones.

Not to hijack OP’s thread but, gosh, isn’t this the hard truth? I feel personally victimized by this comment :lol:.

I had a successful career as a junior: multiple horses, young riders, FEI competitions, etc. I didn’t know how I would sustain this as an adult, paying my own way. I did a few stints as a working student and decided against trying the pro route. I went into law because when I was growing up my trainer’s husband was a lawyer. He rode 5-6x/week, usually during his lunch breaks on weekdays. He had a very nice, expensive horse competing at the upper levels. “Great, I’ll do that!” I said. What I didn’t understand is that he was a well-established partner at a large law firm, had already put in maybe a decade of 60-80 hour workweeks to get there, and wasn’t paying all the same costs since his wife was the trainer. Also, law school wasn’t nearly as expensive then as it is now.

Anyway, I ended up choosing a legal career which is sort of in the mid-range both in terms of pay and work-life balance. It’s fine, but I realize I probably work too much and earn too little to get myself back to the same level I was competing as a junior. I try not to dwell on it, and to just be grateful for the opportunities I do have (which I recognize many others do not).

OP - I totally get that making time to ride is hard when work is busy, but as people here are saying, you need that time in the saddle if you really want to progress. If you do a lease or half lease, you should have more flexibility about when you can ride versus being constrained by your trainer’s lesson schedule, school horse availability, etc. Even if you’re just hacking at 6:00 AM on a Monday morning before work or squeezing in a quick ride over lunch, or this will help a lot.

[Madison]

@MustangTwist

Not to hijack OP’s thread but, gosh, isn’t this the hard truth? I feel personally victimized by this comment :lol:.

20 year BigLaw veteran, I live that comment :lol: I long ago accepted that my schedule will inhibit my progress, but fortunately I do not have lofty goals, and feel no compulsion to try to get to the 3’6". Not enough saddle time, didn’t do it as a junior, and we’ll never know if I’m brave enough, lol!

To the OP, if you can increase your saddle time, you’ll be amazed at how much your progress will pick up. Even just working it out where I could jump twice a week instead of once made a world of difference to me in a short period of time.

[MustangTwist]

@Madison Solidarity! I ended up going in-house a few years back. Better hours (more riding!) but lower pay (less horse shows!). Life’s a compromise.

Wishing OP the best.

[Wanderosa]

@poltroon

He was just channelling his inner otter and experimenting. Maybe you kept putting him through it because there was another way he was supposed to figure out. :lol: Who knows why humans do what they do.

This reminda me of the satire piece the New Yorker did - the Kentucky Derby told from the perspective of the horses. It was one of the best things I’ve ever read!

Some thoughts in no particular order:

1. I do think it’s physically possible to for the OP to attain his goal, provided the drive and cash fall into line. Look around. The vast majority of English riders are women. A disproportionate number of elite level show jumpers and race jockeys are men. No doubt gender discrimination has played a roll in that. Buuuuuuut… pound for pound men tend to have a much higher % of lean muscle mass than women, making them stronger. Of course you can eventually level the playing field with precise technique and intelligent horsemanship. Still doesn’t negate that strength makes a lot of things easier. Young men also have the advantage (or maybe disadvantage?) of the “hold my beer and watch this” mentality towards high risk activities. My best friend is an ER nurse. She will tell you that young men are the chief ER demographic. Let’s be honest. You have to be half crazy to show jump at a high level. Most people don’t WANT to ride a 1000 lbs animal as it flies 6’ into the air!

2. The horses are expensive but every pro I’ve known forms a syndicate to buy them. Or they’re riding someone else’s horse. Of course, you have to be well-known for people to give you their horse to ride. Then again, most anyone riding in Longine would have that kind of name clout.

3. OP, you can probably do this but you can’t do it riding twice a week. If you can get into the gym to lift 4x a week, you can get your butt out to the barn and ride 4x a week. Do it. I used to ride with a trainer that competed in Ironman races in addition to being a CCI**** eventer. He got up at 5am, swam for Lord knows how long; taught, rode clients’ horses and his horse for several hours; and then went for a 6-10 mile run. He managed to stay completely on top of things at the barn, too. Knew exactly what was going on with each horse even though the working students or stall cleaners did most of the work. If you want this that’s the kind of intensity you have to go at it with.

4. Elite horses need to be in a very precise program to keep them fit and sound for that level of performance. Heck. My 17yo leased dressage schoolmaster requires an honest 5-6 days a week of work to stay where we need him to be. If I can’t get there or his owner can’t get there we have to pay for the trainer to ride him. When he seemed slightly off back in February, his mom had radiographs done and his farrier fixed a 1/16 of an inch differential on one foot. He gets hock injections, massage, reiki sessions, has $12K+ in custom fitted saddles, and better clothing than I do. And this is a horse that is just at the beginning of FEI level. Not an international Grand Prix horse. We attended a clinic with Peter Wylde this week. Listening to him describe the program his horses are on was mind-boggling. 45 minutes a day of walking. Careful turnout. Grooms hand-grazing horses. And a solid 5-6x days of training rides planned down to the minute. You ultimately have to be the one to manage and advocate for your horse if you expect him to trust you with his life and vice versa. And that is the bond you need with your horse to do what you’re wanting to do.

[Scribbler]

No one gets to the top levels of anything on two days a week.

Malcolm Gladwells “Outliers” posited that it takes 10,000 hours to achieve mastery of a skill. Thats three hours a day for ten years or six hours a day nonstop for five years, or more hours per day if you have holidays off.

Not coincidentally 4 or 5 years of nonstop work is what most professional and graduate programs involve.

Gladwell was pointing out that young people who display competence beyond their years and end up looking super talented and ahead of their peers have had a head start on their peers, the kids who were riding at age 5 or had musician or artist parents. Etc.

Anyhow OP you need to up your saddle time, get it up to 3 sessions a week now and aim for 5 or 6 on vacation or when work lets you.

I doubt your coach is telling you to fall off but is cautioning you to not get too assured because you are just at the start of your horse career.

Sit down with your coach and ask when and what level you can debut at your first jumper show and what you need to get there.

[Midge]

@centaursam

As I said in my original post, I’ve been riding for three years, mostly in dressage and I’ve done a number of shows. I split my lessons between dressage and jumping but ideally I’d like to just jump. I’ve rode a few dozen different horses and I’m around horses several hours a week.

Nope. Think about this. When you are on course, what do you do most?

[centaursam]

Thank you all for chiming in once again and I agree 100% that I’m not going to really get anywhere riding twice a week. I’m going to work on rearranging my schedule and talk with my instructor on how I can squeeze in another lesson. In time, once certain things fall into place at work, I can conceivably ride most every day of the week, it’s just a matter of time.

I will also echo what many of you are saying in that my perspective on the sport is still amateur in nature relative to what I want to achieve so I definitely need to sit down, think, and strategize every aspect of this goal and internalize what it’s going to take to get there and to understand what’s out there in terms of level of competition. If I know what else is out there in the world of showjumping, I may not necessarily need to get to Longines.

@Wanderosa

3. OP, you can probably do this but you can’t do it riding twice a week. If you can get into the gym to lift 4x a week, you can get your butt out to the barn and ride 4x a week. Do it. I used to ride with a trainer that competed in Ironman races in addition to being a CCI**** eventer. He got up at 5am, swam for Lord knows how long; taught, rode clients’ horses and his horse for several hours; and then went for a 6-10 mile run. He managed to stay completely on top of things at the barn, too. Knew exactly what was going on with each horse even though the working students or stall cleaners did most of the work. If you want this that’s the kind of intensity you have to go at it with.

Haha I have a feeling this will be me at some point. That 5am wakeup though is brutal!

Midge, my two lessons are one dressage and one jumping. I’ve been doing dressage longer than I have been jumping but not by much. Not sure if that answers your question.

[Madison]

@centaursam

If I know what else is out there in the world of showjumping, I may not necessarily need to get to Longines.

There is plenty out there below the level of Longines. And an easy way to get a glimpse of what’s out there can be found on the WEF and Tryon websites – both shows video all the rounds and put them online, and you can view the first place videos in each class for free. https://pbiec.coth.com and https://tryon.coth.com/ are the websites, and in the menu on the left you can either go to the videos link and search there, or the easier way may be to use the classes link and click on the classes you are interested in and use the video icon by the winner’s name. There is a drop-down menu at the top that lets you pick the show week so that you can move from week to week if you want to see more. Seeing the different classes offered and what wins should give you an idea of the levels of competition available to you as you work your way up.

[centaursam]

Thanks Madison!!

This is very helpful, I will definitely check out both websites and do some studying on what else is out there other than Longines.

[Scribbler]

OP, you do realize that Longines is by invitation only the top 30 ( I think, need to verify this) internationally ranked riders in the world, and a fairly recently invented competition? And that there are thousands of internationally ranked riders below them, and thousands upon thousands of riders showing at the 4 foot level in national shows across the country?

I think that a lot of newcomers to any sport are only aware of the high profile televised competitions, and not of the ranks and ranks of levels of competition that ladder up to the Olympics or the World Championship whatever, or the Longines in this case.

Here is a link to the FEI rankings in different sports. These are just the people who are accumulating points in internationally ranked competitions. There are many more people competing at nationally ranked shows.

https://data.fei.org/Ranking/List.aspx

Then there is an entirely other set of rankings for national USEF competition that is searchable

https://www.usef.org/compete/rankings-results/?uid=40110

I kind of know how this works in dressage but maybe someone else can explain the jumper system better than me. There seem to be a lot more different jumper rankings list because there are more competitions.

[centaursam]

I wasn’t aware of the recency of the competition, but I am aware of the level of difficulty it takes to get there (or any sport for that matter at that high of a level).

I wasn’t (and still am not) aware of the ranks of levels and types of competition below such levels as Longines, Olympics, World Championships, etc. but the links Madison provided above seem very insightful in this regard.

I’m not fixated on Longines necessarily, I think there is a bit of a misconstrusion there. I only mentioned it because, other than the Olympics, it’s what I’ve seen to be the top level in showjumping. Perhaps there is something more or perhaps I’d be much more content reaching a lower/different level of competition. As you said, there seems to be a lot more different jumper competitions out there of which I’m more or less ignorant of.

[Scribbler]

You said you’ve been in some shows already? What were they? Where do other folks in your barn show? What is your trainer’s show record? If your trainer is still actively showing, can you go watch? Usually trainers are showing at a higher level than their students. Or ask your trainer about the highest level jumping you can go spectate in your area over the summer.

[fordtraktor]

@centaursam

Thank you all for chiming in once again and I agree 100% that I’m not going to really get anywhere riding twice a week. I’m going to work on rearranging my schedule and talk with my instructor on how I can squeeze in another lesson. In time, once certain things fall into place at work, I can conceivably ride most every day of the week, it’s just a matter of time.

I will also echo what many of you are saying in that my perspective on the sport is still amateur in nature relative to what I want to achieve so I definitely need to sit down, think, and strategize every aspect of this goal and internalize what it’s going to take to get there and to understand what’s out there in terms of level of competition. If I know what else is out there in the world of showjumping, I may not necessarily need to get to Longines.

Haha I have a feeling this will be me at some point. That 5am wakeup though is brutal!

Midge, my two lessons are one dressage and one jumping. I’ve been doing dressage longer than I have been jumping but not by much. Not sure if that answers your question.

But necessary. When I was in biglaw I got up at 4:30 as often as possible to ride, often with a headlamp. Can you do a half lease? Sometimes it is good to learn to work through horse problems on your own, then get advice the other days with the trainer.

FWIW I am now in-house and have a farm. I generally ride 5 days a week when weather permits, but I am building an indoor so I can stick to it year round whatever the weather. It makes an incredible difference.

But everything is torn up in construction. It has been pouring cats and dogs here, I hadn’t been able to ride in 2 weeks, and am at a clinic now. My ride today was good because my mare is quiet, but I could feel I am looser in 2 weeks doing daily heavy farm work. Nothing prepares you for riding like riding. After a break having kids I am getting more and more back into horse sport, but it is hard balancing everything.

you will probably find that doing even lower levels really well brings its own thrill. I find way more satisfaction jumping 2’6 excellently on a horse I trained to jump myself than I would with a made horse jumping a LOT bigger.

[AskMyAccountant.17]

This may have already been mentioned, but worth noting. You sound ambitious and eager to learn, but on our side we do not know if you are currently paired with an instructor who can take you to the pinnacle or levels that you desire to go to. (Which at this point is fine.) However, as you progress it is worth noting to be cognizant of what your goals are and what your current trainer is capable of taking you to. Nothing you have said indicates that you don’t have a reputable and knowledgeable trainer. On a further note, some of the best trainers will tell you “no” so that you can master fundamentals before raising the fence height.

But, it isn’t so far out of left field to see a trainer approached by a client who is requesting more lessons, to compete, etc etc and try to keep them in the dark a bit. A trainer does not want to lose their best paying client. I always encourage riders to pair themselves with coaches who have students at the level they wish to pursue. Take notice of the coach’s’ students other results. Pin those reflections in the back of your head, and you’ll be able to make a better decision as to finding the best fit with a trainer who can help you achieve your goals.

[Annabelle123]

Forget about riding in the Longines Global Champions Tour. The tour is by invitation only, open to the top 30 riders in the FEI Jumping World Rankings. You are currently riding 3 days a week, have a career outside of horses, and I’m assuming don’t have a couple hundred million sitting in a trust fund. There’s about as much chance of you reaching that level as there is of Real Madrid calling you up to play right wing at the World Cup.

But there’s good news! You want to improve your riding, jump bigger fences, compete in some horse shows, move up the ranks, show at some prestigious venues, and maybe win some prizes along the way? Sure, thats probably attainable.

If your goal is to compete, I would highly suggest riding with a bigger show barn. I could be wrong, but this doesn’t sound like the trainer you are currently working with… A proper show barn will have access to the kind of horses you’ll need (both lease and purchase), can help you build a program that aligns with your goals and budget**, and will be well equipped to help you properly manage a sport horse while balancing your time with work.

**Fair warning, in a proper competition program you should probably expect to be shelling out a minimum of ~$50k/year carrying costs (excluding the purchase price of a horse). Expect that number to increase significantly as you move up the ranks, and if you are carrying multiple horses (which is standard at most competition barns).

In the meantime, I’d recommend heading out to some bigger horse shows as a spectator, watching videos, and reading some books about the sport. Most of these things are free or very inexpensive, and will help you build your base of knowledge.

• USEF (United States Equestrian Federation) has a ton of resources on their website.
• Many of the top competitions have video footage or live-stream feeds. Spruce Meadows is going on right now and has their live stream going, and FEI TV has tons of video from high level competitions.
• Piles of books available, but I’d consider Peter Leone's Show Jumping Clinic, The American Jumping Style by George Morris, and the Pony Club Manual of Horsemanship as required reading.

[mvp]

@endlessclimb

Do you have a lot of money?
and/or
Are you charming enough to get and maintain owners/syndicates to buy you a top level horse?

If the answer to either of those questions is yes, there is a third…

Will you marry me? :lol:

Wow. In context, that’s one of the most sexist things I have read on COTH and 38 of y’all like it!

Usually, it’s women asking this kind of question. In the decade plus that I have been reading here, I have never seen anyone say that one of the requirements for getting along in show jumping is that the woman charm owners into buying her horses. But that’s cool advice for a man?

[endlessclimb]

@mvp

Wow. In context, that’s one of the most sexist things I have read on COTH and 38 of y’all like it!

Usually, it’s women asking this kind of question. In the decade plus that I have been reading here, I have never seen anyone say that one of the requirements for getting along in show jumping is that the woman charm owners into buying her horses. But that’s cool advice for a man?

It isnt sexist, it’s reality. You either have money, or be friends with those that do. You’ll never make it to the top without a top level horse, and those horses arent cheap.

[ladyj79]

small point, when show jumpers talk about longines, they’re talking about the ranking, not a show series. And instead you’re 1000% percent going to just say a ranking class, rather than a longines ranking class.

Do you mean Globals? or global champions tour or league? say that. it’s by invite for pros and select amateurs (some of whom are olympians, it has nothing to do with being a professional as you think it), or by heavy buy-in cost, think six figures just to play.

[Midge]

@centaursam

Midge, my two lessons are one dressage and one jumping. I’ve been doing dressage longer than I have been jumping but not by much. Not sure if that answers your question.

You said ideally you wanted to just jump. That is 100% what not to do.

[Scribbler]

@ladyj79

small point, when show jumpers talk about longines, they’re talking about the ranking, not a show series. And instead you’re 1000% percent going to just say a ranking class, rather than a longines ranking class.

Do you mean Globals? or global champions tour or league? say that. it’s by invite for pros and select amateurs (some of whom are olympians, it has nothing to do with being a professional as you think it), or by heavy buy-in cost, think six figures just to play.

Thanks for the explanation!

When I looked up FEI show jumping rankings there were multiple rankings for all the different series.

In dressage there is the main world rankings, where you have everyone from the Olympic superstars of Germany and NL at the top, down to once one of our junior trainers who rode her coach’s horse in a oneoff CDI4 held out here during the Olympic qualifying summer (she was dead last with one or two rides). It’s easier to follow the dressage with one list!

Any advice on reading the multiple jumper lists?

Of course there are also USEF lists but you need a membership to see the whole list.