How fast do professional eventers move up through the levels?

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

First of all, I have to note that this isn’t a personally relevant question–all of you in this forum are way more advanced than I am–I’ve just done non-competitive cross-country schooling :lol:

However, I’m a writer at work editing my second book and one of the characters is a professional eventer. To avoid one of those ‘hilariously wrong’ mistakes riding books often have I was wondering–for a young, professional rider moving up the levels in eventing, is a year unrealistic to move up a single level, provided he/she had enough financial support, the right horses, ecetera?

I know that for an amateur, btw, moving up any level is an amazing achievement and very few people ever make it to Preliminary because of the distractions of jobs/ ‘only’ having one horse to ride and so forth. But I was just wondering what was the case for professional eventers? (For my own curiosity and interest in the sport as well).

[scubed]

It depends on the horse as well as where they are in that career. I would consider it pretty normal for a good professional with a good green horse (with upper level talent) to follow something like:

Year 1 - a few novices, a few trainings, maybe YEH if horse right age
Year 2 - come out a couple trainings move up to prelim and stay there most of year finishing with a 1* (assuming horse is on the younger side), might move up to intermediate with a more mature horse
Year 3 - come out with a couple prelims then move up to intermediate aiming at a fall 2*
Year 4 - move between intermediate and advanced including completing 2* qualifications, but aim at either a fall CCI3* or 3* early in the next spring (may need to do the CIC***)
Year 5 - cross your fingers and home you are ready and qualifed for Rolex in April

Obviously, many professionals starting out get horses that have done somewhat more. For example (and you can go online and look these up if you are a member of USEA), when Caitlin Silliman got Catch a Star, she had done the CCI** already and one advanced. They went to Rolex together about 2 and a half years later (for both, the first time at the levels above 2* other than Catch a Star’s one advanced).

I would recommend that you look at some eventers record who have come up and are now on the U25 or U18 lists and see what the variablity in their records is. It would be pretty unlikely to a good young rider aiming at being a professional to spend a year at any level below preliminary. Even I as an experienced through the preliminary, but full time working adult amateur don’t spend a year at novice.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

Thanks! That’s SO helpful! I have been reading about different riders’ records/career trajectories but sometimes it’s not always clear just how long (or how quickly) it took them to get to the upper levels in the articles. I always wish there was more information about how professionals got where they are, as opposed to just how good they are in the here and now.

[Equibrit]

You can search the BE website and see a horse’s career; eg Avebury
http://www.britisheventing.com/asp-net/events/results.aspx?horseid=69224

Or a rider’s; eg Mr Nicholson
http://www.britisheventing.com/asp-net/events/results.aspx?riderid=27073

USEA does it too but you need a password; https://services.useventing.com/Services/Login.aspx

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Depends on the rider and horse…it really has nothing to do with being a professional or ammy. It also depends on the levels.

I’m an ammy with a full time desk job…and I have had several horses (4) that I have taken from fresh off the track (rested but not restarted) or green broke up to Prelim in their first year. One horse I did his first novice event in March and we did his first Prelim in June…while I was in law school.

I’ve never spent a year at novice with any horse…I have spent longer with them at Training and Prelim. I did 3 seasons at Prelim with one horse before we both did our first Intermediate…but he was the horse who moved up from novice to Prelim in his first season. My current competition horse did his first show in the summer, and we ended the year with couple training levels. Moving up a level in one season isn’t uncommon.

[subk]

As a writer you might want to ask “how long” in comparison to how many events at a given level the pair has had more so than in terms of “how long” according to a calendar. I think one of the reasons pros tend to move horses along faster is that they go to more competions! An actively showing professional can get 4-6 events in the beginning of the year by competing in Florida Jan-Mar when it takes my amatuer self a year to do that many events! Don’t time any move up that happen faster than 4 events (maybe less than 4 for BN, at least 4 for Novice, 4 for Training only if its a potential world beater, 6-10 is more believable for Training and the high side of that for the Upper Levels.

So if your character if showing alot then it makes sense for them to move a low level horse up at least once if not twice in any give year. But even though it’s been known to happen I wouldn’t take a raw greenie and have them competing Prelim in a year. It would be reasonable (but more “pro-like”) for that raw greenie to go to its first event in the spring at BN move up after 2 or 3 runs and go novice for most of the summer going 4-5 tims and move up to Training at the end of the year for a couple runs. That’s fast but that’s believable. Any faster not so much. If that’s the track though that horse and rider can’t accomplish that by having a lot of drama. No humbling wet moments in the water jump or major disaster in show jumping. Silly green mistakes would be all they would be allowed.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

Thanks @subk! That makes so much sense–I agree that access to horses/events is a critical factor. And yes, I also hate it when a character is utterly bumbling and incompetent in the first chapters of a book (or the horse is utterly raw and green) and by the end of the novel the pair is Olympic-ready. I still see that unrealistic trajectory in so many novels.

[fooler]

I have watched horse/rider combo’s follow similar schedules noted by Scubed and BFNE. Everyone is so different and there are so many “things” that can cause delays that nothing to do with either horse or rider.

Also it depends on the how well the horse and/or the rider “read” a specific level.
Watched my late BO/instructor’s daughter start a homebred gelding win at Pretraining, Training and Prelim with one hiccup. They placed 4th at their first LF (NAYR no less) and then moved up to Intermediate.
They stayed at Intermediate for 1.5 years as they each adjusted to the pressure and the new fences. They moved to Advanced and were very competitive at the majors such as Chesterland, Radnor and Rolex.

Edited to say the gelding may have moved up far more quickly with a rider with UL experience. But then again he had an incredibly strong tie to his rider and may not have done as well with anyone else.

Same rider started and competed the younger, full sister of that horse - they stayed at Training for a full year until the mare was confident. Same with Prelim - but there their problem was the mare approached the fences with an “I got it, I got it” attitude, then went yikes at the fence often over jumping it and “jumping the rider off”. So they spent about a year at Prelim until they were both on the same page.
This same mare took 2 different YR’s, with very different experience levels, to Prelim, Intermediate and a few Advance HT.
Let us know when the book is published!

[OverandOnward]

A LL ammy … thinking of the careers of the aspiring professionals I’ve known, a realistic scenario is as much about the horse, the budget and the transportation as it is about the rider. Many try and few succeed, and the reasons people don’t go all the way may be up to 50% or more based on factors other than riding ability, is my totally unscientific observation.

Good luck with your book!

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

Thank you so much everyone–all of these stories are so interesting (and I hope the thread is valuable to read for others, not just for me in my self-interested way).

I will totally let COTH know when the book (my second) is published, probably to an annoying degree!

I agree that ability is only one factor in getting ahead–even though I don’t compete on a high level myself, I’ve always been very interested in the question of the extent to which money/chance/outside support and non-talent-related factors influence even a potentially ‘great’ rider’s career.

[bambam]

[QUOTE=Equibrit;7965533]

USEA does it too but you need a password; https://services.useventing.com/Services/Login.aspx[/QUOTE] No, you don’t need a password. OP, if you want to look up a particular horse or rider’s history in the US to get a sense of their move up timing here are the links: Horse look up: http://www.useventing.com/competitions/profile-horse-search Rider look up: http://www.useventing.com/competitions/profile-user-search Just put in their name and you will get a list of matches. Then click on the one you want to see

[bornfreenowexpensive]

I would consider this a fast move up but they seem to be doing well together…it is about the partnership not the time table.

http://useventing.com/news/racecourse-rolex-record-time

I’ve known many horses who have moved up from Prelim to Advanced in less than 2 years…not so may that come from scratch to Advanced in two years. Most take 4-5years.

Many riders do NOT start at BN…and most put the most time in at Training and Prelim levels.

[JER]

I like my eventers to start competing at age 6. With a horse of sufficient quality, you can compete the them only as necessary – which often mean doing ‘groups’ of horse trials, like on consecutive weekends – and have them out at Advanced at age 9.

Most people seem to start competing their horses at a younger age. I can understand this if the plan is to sell the horse if it’s not cut out for top level, but mine are generally very immature (physically and mentally) until their six year-old year so there’s not much point in competing yet.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;7967001]
I would consider this a fast move up but they seem to be doing well together…it is about the partnership not the time table.

http://useventing.com/news/racecourse-rolex-record-time

I’ve known many horses who have moved up from Prelim to Advanced in less than 2 years…not so may that come from scratch to Advanced in two years. Most take 4-5years.

Many riders do NOT start at BN…and most put the most time in at Training and Prelim levels.[/QUOTE]

Wow, that’s SUCH a great story! Bought for $750 and shooting up like a rocket through the levels. That story would make a great novel in and of itself!

[JER]

[QUOTE=Impractical Horsewoman;7967636]
Wow, that’s SUCH a great story! Bought for $750 and shooting up like a rocket through the levels. That story would make a great novel in and of itself![/QUOTE]

Ugh. Please no more of these stories.

While I like – very much – that this kind of success does happen in real life, the fairy tale of cheap-horse-makes-good, saved-from-the-meat-man is somewhat misleading in the overall scope of life with horses.

Most horses take time and patience. Most horses won’t ever make it to Rolex or the National Horse Show or the Olympics. Most horses are just horses, and we need to be realistic about their abilities and temperaments and our expectations when we start to work with them.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

@JER–I agree, and my first thought was that the horse in the book I actually am writing is considerably more expensive and the view of a cheap horse rocketing to success actually more cynical.

Although it’s always nice to read a heartwarming story about an OTTB.

I did love reading The Eighty Dollar Champion, I must admit!

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=JER;7967599]
I like my eventers to start competing at age 6. With a horse of sufficient quality, you can compete the them only as necessary – which often mean doing ‘groups’ of horse trials, like on consecutive weekends – and have them out at Advanced at age 9.

:)[/QUOTE]

If you have done other showing, and outings—that time table makes sense. We used to take our youngsters out fox hunting for season or two. You really didn’t go eventing until they were further along. Now people seem to start them with eventing instead of moving to eventing after they are bit older and further along. I’ve never thought 4 year old horses needed to go out eventing much if at all. I did with my two last year but that was because both were for resale and the market almost demanded the show experience to sell them. But after two novice HTs, both were ready for more and I didn’t want them to do more given their age. I sold one and the other will go out at Training level soon. She will likely be ready for more but when you start with them younger, you often need to put the breaks on and limit their competing as opposed to when you have an OTTB who is already older.

[FrittSkritt]

Not to mention the wear and tear of running a young horse right up the levels from the get-go… there was a sale horse at my barn many many years ago who was 5 or 6, only going N/T and they were already injecting his hocks. :eek:

[Groom_amp_Taxi]

[QUOTE=FrittSkritt;7967895]
Not to mention the wear and tear of running a young horse right up the levels from the get-go… there was a sale horse at my barn many many years ago who was 5 or 6, only going N/T and they were already injecting his hocks. :eek:[/QUOTE]

It is not terribly uncommon to hear of hocks being injected at that age in many disciplines.

I think the other thing that OP may want to consider in the context of her story is what the young professional eventer’s experience was before she turned pro. I’d hazard a guess that most young professional eventers had their first Beginner Novice and Novice experiences as Juniors, and it would be very rare to find a pro who had never done Prelim or Training before turning pro.

[NeverTime]

@bornfreenowexpensive;7967001

I would consider this a fast move up but they seem to be doing well together…it is about the partnership not the time table.

http://useventing.com/news/racecourse-rolex-record-time

Was that a cool story or a press release for County Saddles?! They must be thrilled; I can’t help but wonder who edited it and let an interesting story turn into an advertisement.