You would have to ask each individual judge, but I don’t think any judge would admit to scoring a pair inappropriately as that would put them in a questionable position with their governing body.
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Judges are absolutely NOT supposed to modify a score for relative improvement. They are supposed to score relative to an ideal. Good judges just don’t do that, and I’ve never seen a situation where I felt that was the case.
That said, Of course your score is going to go up when you start to iron out the things that have been bringing it down.
And if, you listen to a judge when they make a constructive comment, and show evidence by the end of the show that you have actually listen to them by improving that specific concept… They will NOTICE that you Read.The.Comments. And will adjust the score up, usually substantially.
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right. of course it would.
I don’t really care actually. It was just something hoopoe said that got me wondering.
Guessing local judges see the same horses and riders frequently. They also know individuals personally. In my experience in other competitive events, for the most part, judges are not prejudiced.
Keep in mind the video you watch too. Heres one of my First level tests for a virtual dressage show, the camera couldn’t get the whole thing so the ride was slightly modified to make it work. Some shapes might look off, but they were accurate in the ride.
Then there is a BN dressage test here from my horses first event, and you can see we miss and go off track a bit, but there is a massive puddle that isn’t really visible in the video. I was trying but couldn’t get her to the rail lol.
Just remember that what you see in the video isn’t always what it looked like or what happened in person!
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ahhhh…that makes sense.
That is not true.
The USDF Intro tests specifically say that they can be ridden in either a standard or small arena (and are almost always ridden in a small arena).
Many of the USEF/USEA eventing tests specify a small arena (ALL of the BN,N,T tests and most of the Mod and Prelim tests).
All of these are regularly ridden at dressage shows.
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Honestly most local judges are not going to accurately remember the scores and foibles of 50 or 100 mediocre ammies spread and re appearing at over a dozen shows a year. I bet they don’t remember the scores to the end of the day. The judge gives verbal comments and scores to the scribe who writes them down and adds them up fast then the show office takes them and checks the math and records the score and gives the rider the comment sheet.
I have classes of 25 college students. I spend hours marking papers and toting up the final grade. But I can’t be sure of the grade I gave without logging into my marks program and double checking.
The thing is competition is of the moment. A little bobble or conversely a lucky moment can make or break a competition in any sport. Jumpers is a great example because if you look at the placings at a lower level ammie or junior show typically the placings of say the top ten riders switch around dramatically. Susie gets first in one class, then knocks down a fence rail in the next, and is out of the ribbons or maybe 8th place.
The word ringcraft is a useful term in thinking about dressage. I’ve seen folks new to showing get lovely movement and carriage but lose points because the entrance stop wasn’t square or they were late or early with the transitions. There’s also understanding what the judge can or can’t see, and being crooked going down the rail towards the judge is super obvious.
I think as someone else said above its also true that you don’t ever get 100 per cent of what you school at home, at a show. That’s why you typically compete a level below what you are working on at home. But even there you won’t get 100 per cent what you are capable of until you and horse are very polished. Part of the process is warming up so your horse is absolutely on point when you enter the ring, but not starting to get tired or pissed off. But warming up in a strange arena full of other anxious horse and rider pairs is not easy either.
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They might, but that doesn’t mean they keep track of the scores. When scribing I have had judges ask what score they gave a couple of movements ago, because they don’t always keep track of that!
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In dressage judging the concentration required is quite ferocious as one observes, assesses, evaluates and comments on each movement within the test and each test takes several minutes for the multiple movements. Think of constructive comments at the end, check the scores written, total up, slurp a mouthful of cold coffee and the next horse is already circling to come in. I can assure you that there is very little head space to consider fashion, friendships, family or even notice the sky is about to fall.
Do say thank you!
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I would add that a judge can only mark what they think they see. They may say crooked line, watch geometry, when you know it’s a tiny spook or puddle. Etc. They may not always get the right reading of rider versus horse error. It is so useful to get a video and watch it with the judges comments in front of you to see what they saw, how they interpreted it, and recall how it felt to you. They are usually right in what they saw but not always correct in how they interpret it.
My friend bought a showbred Arab who flunked basic training out of a rural backyard where he’d started bolting on trails and been unridden for months. She restarted him and worked through his quirks. She took him to a rail class at a schooling show that happened to have an Arab circuit judge that day.
The Arab circuit judge was convinced that a “valuable” horse like that would have come fully trained and all bobbles were rider error and ignorance. She refused to listen to my friend say it was only his 3rd show ever and she’d had to completely restart him from the ground up and he 2as still quirky. That couldn’t be possible, a horse like that would never fall through the cracks, you just can’t ride right.
Backhanded complement to the horse, insulting to the trainer/rider/owner!
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Is it just me? I have never seen a short court, ever. Never at a barn and never at a show.
I’m in So Cal and have been doing dressage for 20 years.
I will jsut say that Intro tests in a large arena… well, the scribe has no problem keeping up…
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I have never seen a true short court. At one show I did, though, a standard arena had the last 20 meters marked off, so you rode the pattern in just the first 40 meters. Of course, the letters were adjusted for the smaller area. They did it just to save time for the judge.
Back in the 80s when I started riding dressage (yes, Im old!) most of the schooling shows in CT used small arenas. There was no intro level and training was virtually always done in the small. If there were upper level tests, the ring was reconfigured during a drag break.
At the schooling shows I have seen recently, they are running two rings. The small is used for intro through T2 as well as some eventing tests. Other tests are run in the large.
really? That’s wild! We mostly have those at events.
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I laughed. How true. So sorry to the scribe and the judge!
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I’ve never shown in the big court. 
I’ve ridden in them though!
Scribes don’t have time to add up the scores. The scoresheet goes to the office, where the scorer adds them up, and rechecks them. The judge has NO IDEA of the actual final score unsless he/she checks the scoreboard.
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This is absolutely wrong. The scribe never adds up the scores. NEVER. Well ok, I don’t know, maybe at some little backyard barn show or something. But in reality, no, the scribe does not ever add up the scores.
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I am confused, how do we know the people whose videos that are being watched are showing off versus simply recording as a learning experience or their first online show or whatever?
People here are always suggesting video taping, now if people post them somewhere they are showing off?
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