How important is geometry?

[Scribbler]

Ok, my mistake! I have never scored! Thank you! In that case it makes it even more unlikely that the judge would even be capable of thinking “oh thats Susie Smith on her Bay with one white foot, riding Training 3 today. I remember I gave her 59 in Training 2 two months ago at the Green Acres schooling show. She looks so much better today so I’ll give her a 63.”

There just isn’t bandwidth to hold these thoughts in a judges mind in a dressage test. Especially if the judge doesn’t even know the final score.

[Scribbler]

@trubandloki

I was using showing off in a fairly neutral sense thinking about the whole Tiktok SM thing where anyone with a camera can post anything. And much of the time videos are not being shared for feedback but just for “look at this cool thing I’m doing.” It would be “mean” to comment, you’d be a “hater.”

I like to get video when I can but I sure don’t post it on YouTube. I have posted short clips on FB but totally in the spirit of “look at my pretty horse.”

[Janet]

@Scribbler

Ok, my mistake! I have never scored!
…
Especially if the judge doesn’t even know the final score.

Clearly you have never scribed either.
PLEASE start volunteering at your local dressage shows (and horse trials). They would not function without the volunteers.

Not only does the judge not know the final score (unless they go and look at the scoreboard), they frequently don’t know who won the class (unless they go and look at the scoreboard).

[Scribbler]

Haha I meant I had never scribed. Need more coffee LOL.

[Mersidoats]

@Scribbler

oh thats Susie Smith on her Bay with one white foot, riding Training 3 today. I remember I gave her 59 in Training 2 two months ago at the Green Acres schooling show. She looks so much better today so I’ll give her a 63.”

I was scribing at regionals (open champ class) and as the next horse and rider trotted by, the judge turned to me and asked, “do you know the story of this horse?” And proceeded to tell me the story. Which I thought was strange. And I later learned it wasn’t entirely true anyway.

Later in the test, she said “I’ve given this horse an 80% before, you know.” Horse proceeded to have a snit-fit in the corner and leap frog down the diagonal. She continued “Well, not today - 3, disobedient.” So some of them do remember.
This was the only time I’ve ever had this happen. Did it make me slightly dubious of this particular judge’s partiality? Maybe.

[atlatl]

@Jealoushe

@atlatl

Is it just me? I have never seen a short court, ever. Never at a barn and never at a show.

really? That’s wild! We mostly have those at events.

Cross my heart, never.

[fargaloo1]

Sorry if this has already been said, but good geometry is not just about riding tests – it’s part of every training ride. A round circle means that the horse is holding consistent rhythm, consistent balance, consistent bend – and with that, probably consistent pace, consistent contact, etc. When a horse deviates from any line – straight or curved – it means that there has been a momentary loss of at least one of the above. (Notice how bobbles and bulges tend to happen after transitions between and within gaits.) I always heard the adage about “if you don’t have a fancy mover, you can make up for it by riding an accurate test” as meaning that at least you have some element to improve your score. Now I understand it as, if your horse isn’t a naturally beautiful mover, riding good geometry means they maintain consistent rhythm, balance, contact, etc., – IOW, become better movers. Also – riding consistent, predictable lines helps the horse a LOT mentally. If your aids are asking for a nice consistent bend, or straightness, you develop that “dialogue” with a horse. When you allow them to wobble and fall out, it’s sending an inconsistent message. I ride an anxious one, and paying attention to my geometry – like, every single stride – really helps her to relax and focus her mind.

[lorilu]

@Janet

The judge has NO IDEA of the actual final score unsless he/she checks the scoreboard.

Many of the judges I know have a very accurate idea of the final score… altho they do check the scoreboard, often at Lunch…

[eightpondfarm]

@fargaloo1

If your aids are asking for a nice consistent bend, or straightness, you develop that “dialogue” with a horse. When you allow them to wobble and fall out, it’s sending an inconsistent message.

I find it fairly exhausting to keep my mare in my mind for more than, say, 15 minutes. Then we need a break. Rarely do i keep us moving if i don’t feel we’re in eachother’s heads. Sometimes, i’ll be in a lesson and enter into a conversation w/coach while aboard…and let us fall apart (me and mare) and i find us riding around aimlessly, like a boat without a rudder. I mean my mare is doing whatever we’re supposed to be doing, but not well and kinda just out-there. This is when i’ll find our circle flat along one side, or see her body angle in her lateral In which case, i stop and walk up to coach end conversation about whatevah, and refocus, connect and we resume. It really is about mindcontrol for me. I need to stay with my mare, and i ALWAYS find her willing to meet me halfway. She likes it. I do have trouble staying in her head for much more than 15 mins though.

[outerbanks77]

I bet your mare finds it exhausting too. I tend to school in 6-8 minute intervals with walk on loose rein in between. Good for both the brain and the fascia, even if the horse is very fit and not breathing hard.

[eightpondfarm]

Most of our working lesson is at a walk, so there’s no breathing hard. I wonder…i’ve always wondered…what it is in horses that makes them reach back when we reach out?

[outerbanks77]

Like I was getting at, more mental fatigue, and postural fatigue can happen in walk work too. Just saying it’s a good practice to not expect the horse be able to focus longer than the rider.

[netg]

Same here, when I can My girl is too large compared to ideal for me, and this is what we have really been working on - me riding so much that her ribs and shoulders stay where I want, which then helps hind end, leading to more collection and expressiveness. As you noted, it also provides that added mental focus and calmness which of course helps everything.

[endlessclimb]

Here is my young mare’s first dressage show Intro C from this past weekend. Lots of errors, both in horse (which should be in quotes because horse issues are rider issues) and rider position. I have a stiff back which needs conscious relaxing, which doesn’t have space in my brain when I’m thinking “will she spook” because it’s her first time out there. It was also my first time showing in the big arena which was a surprise to me, so all of my standard schooling on “where to be in relation to the letters” went straight out the window. Oops!

Overall I was very proud of her for the test. And as for the mistakes… that’s why it’s intro.

Shayney Mahaney - Winsom Farm - Intro C - October 2021

[Jojomo]

@endlessclimb

Here is my young mare’s first dressage show Intro C from this past weekend. Lots of errors, both in horse (which should be in quotes because horse issues are rider issues) and rider position. I have a stiff back which needs conscious relaxing, which doesn’t have space in my brain when I’m thinking “will she spook” because it’s her first time out there. It was also my first time showing in the big arena which was a surprise to me, so all of my standard schooling on “where to be in relation to the letters” went straight out the window. Oops!

Overall I was very proud of her for the test. And as for the mistakes… that’s why it’s intro.

Nice test, endless! I did not see any mistakes.

Is the judge in the car at C?

[endlessclimb]

Yes, she is.

IMO, she needed to be more forward. I was allowing her to go around how she liked a little, while still sending her into the contact - it was her first time, and as long as there was good behavior I was planning to let nearly everything slide. Free walk needed more swing and stretch (again, letting her do what she wanted, no pressure). She broke from the canter early tracking left, and I decided just to capture/rebalance the trot and make the best out of the lemons (I hadn’t cantered her yet that day, the footing in the warmup was too bad to do more than walk/trot).

On her second test, I actually rode her forward and scored better.

The judge was being VERY generous, so I won’t post the scores lol

[equinelibrium]

@fargaloo1

Sorry if this has already been said, but good geometry is not just about riding tests – it’s part of every training ride. A round circle means that the horse is holding consistent rhythm, consistent balance, consistent bend – and with that, probably consistent pace, consistent contact, etc. When a horse deviates from any line – straight or curved – it means that there has been a momentary loss of at least one of the above. (Notice how bobbles and bulges tend to happen after transitions between and within gaits.) I always heard the adage about “if you don’t have a fancy mover, you can make up for it by riding an accurate test” as meaning that at least you have some element to improve your score. Now I understand it as, if your horse isn’t a naturally beautiful mover, riding good geometry means they maintain consistent rhythm, balance, contact, etc., – IOW, become better movers. Also – riding consistent, predictable lines helps the horse a LOT mentally. If your aids are asking for a nice consistent bend, or straightness, you develop that “dialogue” with a horse. When you allow them to wobble and fall out, it’s sending an inconsistent message. I ride an anxious one, and paying attention to my geometry – like, every single stride – really helps her to relax and focus her mind.

I wish I could like this more than once!

[eightpondfarm]

@endlessclimb

The judge was being VERY generous, so I won’t post the scores lol

because you feel your score was too high? awww…cummmmmONnnnnn!!! giveitup

[endlessclimb]

Let’s just say I’m not “Charlotte at Intro” lol