Someone, please explain this to me.
I’ve been to Traverse City and it’s lovely, but really? It’s not exactly easily accessible and I find it hard to believe the facilities are better than the bigger venues out west.
Still waiting to see any national level championship show even close to the Rockies much less west of them.
Good question.
Do you remember why Thermal was rejected after being briefly considered for USDF Finals? I remember that the search committee reported it was in contention based on adequate number of rings, good footing, enough parking, enough barns, and adequate surrounding commercial businesses within close distance such as hotels, restaurants and gas stations.
And then after just a few weeks it was out of contention. I cannot remember the negatives other than distance for the east coast people and especially Florida.
I totally get the west coast frustration. Totally. It sucks. I live here myself, although I’ve lived in several different regions around the country of my time showing dressage.
In 2016, NAYC was at the Colorado Horse Park and the New England region (8) didn’t even come because it was ‘too far’ for them which seemed very unsporting. Yes, it’s expensive and more stress for the horses, but west coasters have been dealing with it and making it work for decades. Colorado’s the closest it’s been to the west coast (it’s been there a few times), ever, and it’s still a 15-20 hour drive to the major populations centers of the west coast. The next year it was in New York.
However, the real crux of the matter is that the ‘population center’ for dressage is solidly in the eastern part of the country. Think of it by time zone to approximate east-west spread. You have 2 NAYC teams on pacific time (Reg 6 and 7), 1 on mountain time (Reg 5), 2.5 on central time (Reg. 4, 9 and half 2) and 3.5 on eastern time (Reg. 1, 8, 3, half of 2). So if you had a west coast final, 2 teams are going to be within a 20ish hour drive (even parts of Reg 6 and 5 have a 15+h haul to thermal, for instance), and 7 regions are going to be beyond a 20 hour drive. It would quickly become a regional, not national competition just because of practicalities. Whereas if you have your big show in Kentucky, 5 teams (Reg 1, 2, 3, 4, 8 and 9) are within a 12-15 hour drive and only three teams (5, 6 and 7) are beyond that.
So, while it’s really not fair that the west coast - with its very active and high quality dressage scene - never gets the chance to host US Dressage Finals, NAYC, Festival of Champions or other big national shows. But it maximizes the benefit for the USDF memerbship.
In my opinion, we need to stop thinking about the unfairness and start thinking of how we can make it more accessible for west coast riders to compete in the national shows and work on getting our federation to support those efforts. For instance, sponsoring a nonstop professional hauler to get horses safely, comfortably and efficiently to these shows.
And I’ll fight tooth and nail if they want to move these shows from central/midwest locations (ie Lamplight, Kentucky Horse Park) to true east coast venues that are beyond a reasonable multiday haul (like when NAYC in Saugerties, NY or if they tried to move one of the big finals to Wellington, for instance).
Agree with the above, but you forget to mention hauling horses over multiple mountain ranges. It’s not as the crow flies by a long shot, well unless you’re flying your horse $$$
I don’t know about that. CDS alone has over 2500 members. Granted not all of them show, but they do include the bulk of the Olympic team. Add the ~1000 from Region 6 and keep moving east, and that’s a pretty big piece of USDF membership probably before you hit the Mississippi. If folks want to add up the membership from their regions and share it, that would be interesting. I went ahead and did Region 8; 2412 members.
Well, there’s that whole mountain range thing again.
Also, you’re talking about the number of teams; not necessarily representative of the “population center.” A better analogy would be that all states get 2 senators regardless of population thereby diminishing the effective representation of more populous states, but I digress.
Nah, gotta agree to disagree on that one.
Really? Why should west coasters be disadvantaged by having their horses travel excessively long distances?
Honestly, I think the US is simply too big geographically to have any real kind of “national” championships. What I’d like to see happen is that the west get our act together and generate sponsorships to just have our own shows.
People make a logical case for Lamplight and other big venues, the point of my OP was that Traverse City, MI can’t quite make that same argument. Well, it is inconvenient for everyone I guess.
I apologize for getting vague and going back and forth between talking about NAYC and the more general question of where national events are held. Thus talking about ‘teams’, since each region only sends 4 Jr and 4YR regardless of its relative size/membership in some paragraphs vs the general question of population center of USDF membership.
The other reason I think the population center skews east is that, at least historically, the rocky mountains (region 5) and the upper midwest (region 4) have historically been the smallest regions by membership.
I agree Traverse City feels like an odd choice for many from a transportation perspective, although it’s really a shame the one time they hold it in a good place for Canadians covid made it impossible for most of them to make it! It is also a bit of a ‘destination’ venue and supposed to be gorgeous and fun, or at least that’s what I hear from show jumpers that go there regularly! Although since the eventers left NAYC, I do feel like dressage is a little bit the stepchild getting tacked onto a hunter/jumper show. The NAYC eventers incidentally all go to northern Montana now which certainly shows the power of a destination venue everyone really wants to go to (eventers as a culture are more inclined to long drives in my experience).
USDF of course makes it hard to find any meaningful membership data by region. The only proxy I can find quickly without really dedicating myself to this rabbit hole 
is the number of participating member delegates that are in each region, which are allocated based on the number of members from each region. BUT since 2021 allocations are based on 2020 membership, I think the west coast might be a bit lower than usual due to having more significant covid show cancellations than other parts of the country. I know region 6 lost 1 delegate this year, not sure about region 7. I believe these also represent the delegates who would be voting on locations for major events on the USDF side (not USEF) - its easy to see how the west coast is completely outnumbered.
Region 1 - mid atlantic - 13
Region 2 - great lakes - 11
Region 3 - south east - 13
Region 4 - upper midwest/plains - 2
Region 5 - the entire mountain time zone including az - 4
Region 6 - pacific NW - 5
Region 7 - CA/NV - 7
Region 8 - New England - 7
Region 9 - Texas/LA/OK - 6
So regions 1, 2 and 3 have 37 delegates, more than all the other regions combined.
I think there is a good argument for things like the USEF high performance observation event being held in California, since so many high performance athletes are based there and its a small number of horses involved. I believe they chose Wellington this June because they were looking to replicate the heat and humidity of Tokyo, but I felt bad for the Californian horses having to fly back to wellington again (at least at that level they get to fly!).
“Destination” venue? Compared to Las Vegas, New Mexico maybe, no offense to anyone from New Mexico.
My family originally being from “da UP,” I say with confidence that Traverse City isn’t easy to get to for the Canadians either, particularly those in Western Canada. There’s a lot of fresh water in the way of a direct route even for the eastern Canadians.
The selection absolutely makes no sense to me.
Hmm, it looks like Region 1 has 2960 members per the USDF website. I looked at each GMO and added the membership numbers. So if we go with 2500 for Region 7, that’s a difference of 460, or 18.4%. So if the voting delegates are based on membership numbers why does Region 1 have nearly double the delegates of Region 7?
I suspect that the voting delegates are somehow tied to the GMOs themselves. As CDS predates USDF, I also suspect we are disadvantaged by having one big GMO with chapters, many of which have more members than entire GMOs in other regions.
The more I think about it the more I think we should just go our own way.
I noticed a strong Californian flavour to the USA Olympic Dressage Team.
Dressage IS the step child getting tacked on to a h/j show. IMHO dressage deserves its own NAYC championship show.
The Traverse City area is a destination resort, so once you’re there, you’re there. The nearest major airport (Detroit) is an approx. 4 hour drive from Traverse City.
The show is held at the height of tourist season when hotel room rates are at premium, and availability can be limited. Competitors are required to be at the show for about a week. The average room rate of the top 5 “Best Value” Traverse City hotels on Trip Advisor is $300 per night, without tax. .The average room rate for USDF recommended hotels is $262 per night. without tax. $262 x 7 nights = $1834. An additional room for the trainer brings the hotel cost to $3668. The total costs for hotel, horse transportation, rental cars, food, etc. are staggering.
If NAYC is going to be tacked on to another show, tack it on to Festival of Champions at Lamplight either a week prior, or the week after FOC. Riders, trainers, grooms, families and friends could attend both without having to split time and transportation costs from one venue to another. It would be a true Festival of Champions for dressage: young riders + young horses + accomplished campaigners.
Imagine the exposure and education the young riders would have.
Lamplight is a beautiful equestrian-first show grounds, and the towns of Wayne/St Charles aren’t tourist-first destinations. The average mid-August hotel room rate per night is $150 according to Trip Advisor. Chicago O’Hare Airport is only about 45 mins from Lamplight.
It’s my understanding that NAYC will be held at Traverse City again next year.
Let’s see if something can be done for NAYC at FOC in 2023.
Right, it was a three-year contract for 2020-2022. The pandemic led to full cancellation of the show last year so this weekend was the first of two, instead of second of three.
I tried to gauge what people from out of the area thought about the facility and the area. But I didn’t ask anyone about their flight, hauling/shipping, or hotel costs, and how that compared to other venues. Because I wouldn’t ask that stuff even if I were curious. And, I am.
The main thing overall that people were impressed with was the beauty of the TC area and of the venue. It really is laid out with an eye toward landscaping, and views, and greenery. It is very parklike. Competitors and show mngmt staff loved all of that.
They also said the facility staff was larger and more dedicated than at other major shows. They commented specifically on how quickly the workers rallied to repair the damages and to recover the arenas after the storms. One coach from another region compared that specifically to KY horse park and said there was just no way they could have put the place back together that quickly. “They just don’t have the crews.”
And some people I know loved the hotel (Turtle Creek Hotel & Casino) for being so close to the barns, and said it “has everything.” An acquaintance from AZ said she’s never stayed at a hotel that has a North Face shop in the lobby, and she thought that was just great. It struck me funny because shopping is about the last thing on my mind when I am at a horse show. Personally I consider a great breakfast restaurant in the lobby to be the mark of a hotel that “has everything.”
But, that is what she said. North Face.
Also the footing is really, really perfect as I mentioned before. But there are only three rings total with the GGT dressage footing. One was used as the competition arena and the other two were warmups. I don’t know how many “big” events can be run with only three dedicated dressage rings. Of course, they can use the three GGT rings for performance, and warmup in others nearby which were used for jumping this past weekend. For bigger shows.
Also, no lights in TC. None at all. Maybe they have plans to add some. But Lamplight also has no lights, so after-dark scheduling is not an option there either.
Those were my observations. People really loved it, and I heard no complaints about anything, other than the freak storm. But, I don’t know their budgets or what they spent to get there, relative to other venues. Didn’t dare to ask!
I would like to answer some of the questions that have been brought up as I know a little bit about NAYC. I have been involved with the NAYC for over 36 years. To answer the OP - it is quite simple. There is an open bidding process. There were very few venues that made bids on the NAYC and also there were very few venues that bid on the National Dressage Championships. There were even fewer venues that fulfilled the requirements even if they did bid.
Regarding NAYC, there are 2 disciplines that are still a part of the Championships - Dressage and Jumping. The facility and management team must be able to fulfill requirements for both. Of the few bids that were submitted, some wanted a guarantee that they would not have to be financially responsible for the short fall.
Regarding Region 8 not coming to Colorado for the NAYC a few years ago. It was not because it was too far. It was because they did not have a full team that qualified and could go because of lameness issues. Please squash that rumour. It was a great competition that year in Colorado. Sadly it was the last year that Eventing was part of the Event.
The NAYC Eventers went to Montana for 2 years after Colorado, and now they do not have an NAYC - e.g., a continental Championship for Eventing any longer as they do not have enough kids to field teams at that level. (It is a dream of mine to get the three disciplines back together, but I don’t know if that will ever happen.)
Regarding the NAYC moving to Lamplight during the FOC. I grew up in that area and love it. The town of St. Charles is very fun. However it has been discussed and had to be rejected because:
1 - there are FEI rules that prohibit a Continental Championship being run with another Championship.
2 - there is no room in the schedule for adding more classes. The FOC is pretty big even now and they are suppose to add Para to it. I don’t know how that will work.
3.- many of the same horse/rider combinations are in both events. This would be very difficult on the horses.
Regarding the Dressage Finals at Thermal: there were many site inspections by the EB at that time. When the idea of the Finals being at Thermal was presented to the membership, there was quite a push back from the West Coast representatives who said that the West Coast would not come - and they voted it down. Perhaps things could change now that Thermal is under new management.
There are many reasons why the Dressage Finals has not been able to be moved and it has been voted on by the USDF Board of Governors. The West Coast delegates do not want to move it from what is a successful, in the black event, until they can find a venue that will not run in the red. Being fiscally responsible, from my point of view, is a smart thing to do for an organization.
I hope I have been able to answer some of the questions and to clarify what each of these unique events present.
That explains it quite well, thank you!
My earlier post suggesting a NAYC move to Lamplight clearly said either the week before, or the week after FOC, not concurrently.
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