How long before your horse stopped being girthy after treating the medical cause?

[LilyandBaron]

My horse has had ulcers in the past, and I thought had them again but was actually low vitamin E and acute Lyme. He’s done a month of doxycycline and water soluble vitamin E, as well as TCM Lyme formula, and is now on powder vitamin E. Vet is coming back out to test to see where we are, so I know I’m getting ahead of myself.

I’ve very lightly tried to work him, just to see where we are. At its worst, he was dangerously spooky, hyper esthetic, and girthy. He was oddly never lame, but lazy, so perhaps soreness made him hesitant to really move out? Post meds, he’s edgy at times, no longer touchy over all, but he’s still very girthy. I just saddled him in cross ties yesterday, touching his girth area and waiting for him to relax, then praising or giving a treat.

My question - for whatever reason a horse has been girthy, have you had them basically have girth PTSD? I mean, if he’s girthy, does it mean the root medical cause is still affecting him, or could it be psychological? And I had his saddle fit checked in the past, but just re-checked that as well, and non-issue.

I’m not returning him to work until he’s less reactive and continuing to work with the vet, but also will slowly work on regaining his trust about the girth, knowing it might actually still hurt, so just very gentle touch. When he had ulcers, the girthy issues went away when the pain did, but perhaps Lyme pain affected him differently.

[Ganesha]

Some might now agree with the treat approach, but after my super girthy horse was treated for ulcers, I cured his girthiness with methodical treat dispensing. It took about 2 weeks for him to “forget” his issue.

I moved back the treats at first to the point before he had a reason to get fussy. First I treated him if he was polite when putting the saddle pad on. Then, I delayed the treat until the saddle was on and he was nice about it. Then to initial loose girthing, etc. Finally, he was able to be happy and calm throughout the process and got his treat at the very end, after he was girthed up.

He got to where he perked up when I began to tack him up because he knew what was coming. A few months after he was consistently perky and good through the process, I phased out the treats by only giving them every 2nd or 3rd time he was fully tacked up. He no longer has any issues. Just don’t treat him while or after he’s making nasty faces, nipping, or exhibiting behavior you don’t want.

[NancyM]

There are other reasons why he may still be girthy. My mare was no longer girthy after I took her OFF any high protein feed. Symptoms were very similar to ulcers… gut pain. So give that a try.

[Foxtrot_s]

This is a bit ‘out there’ but my current saddle horse has moments that can set her off. There is apparently a spot on her ribcage that she cannot tolerate the girth - but currently the girths that are used on her don’t affect that spot, and we are very careful to girth up gently because of her tender armpits.

But I got another person to ride her and she used her own saddle. It was a jump saddle , with a short girth that had wings on it under the buckles…looked very well padded with pads, etc. I personally did the girthing up my usual way - you would think I’d shocked her with an electric prod - she took off around the arena crow hopping and then when she stopped she appeared as if nothing had happened.

Have you tried different girths or saddle position?

I also had a horse that had ulcers as a foal – I do think he had a residual memory of tummy ache but got over it.

Sorry - not really sure if that is relelvant.

[cayuse]

Although much improved, my mare always had some lingering grumpiness concerning the girth after ulcer treatment.
My mini on the other hand, was pretty much back to normal normal after about seven days of treatment.

[LilyandBaron]

Yeah, I’m torn between assuming pain means he’s not recovered and thinking he needs to realize it’s not painful anymore. I have a few girths - fleece and anatomical and he reacts as I start to girth him - it’s not even touching him yet! And he reacts as I touch his girth area. But he was fine with his saddle and girth before Lyme, and in previous years, quickly got over the girthy stuff after ulcer treatment. I’ve owned him 10 years, and just thought the girthiness would go away if he were “cured” of the Lyme/vit E deficiency, but realize he may have felt more pain this time? I think just being considerate but trying to desensitize until vet gets out next week is best course of action. Thanks for inputs/ideas!!!

[digihorse]

You are also assuming that the girthyness is about pain, and not a learned behaviour from first backing. too many people are in a hurry to get the girth tight. Some horses take offence, and never do completely forgive it. With these horses you just have to take time… put the saddle on, girth loose and walk tighten 1 hole and walk. It will not change.

[Scribbler]

My mare has been persistently girthy. i gave her a run of herbal ulcer med just to be sure, have good fitting saddles and comfy girths. She is a friendly but not a cuddly horse, and doesn’t love being groomed either, unless she has an actual mosquito bite or is shedding heavily.

I clicker train her for tricks, and finally started that for the tacking up. She is rewarded for standing quietly, and usually has to look away from me before I give her the treat. Now she sometimes nickers happily when she feels the girth touch her skin. Go figure. It absolutely can’t be hurting her in any real way if she was able to switch attitude for the sake of a couple of chunks of extruded feed!

Absolutely it can be learned behavior, especially if it is just manifesting itself as grumpiness.

Taking off bucking around the arena is a whole other problem, and I don’t think the bribe of a couple of cookies would fix that!

[LilyandBaron]

Having owned him 10 years, it definitely arose from pain, and this time, it was Lyme. He’s had ulcers twice in those ten years, so normally not girthy at all. And he’s had Chiron, no issues, saddle fitted professionally, etc. I know his issues stem solely from pain - ulcers before, this time Lyme/vitamin E.

I always go slow with every horse - rode babies for years and just think it’s kindest to go slowly. Today I saddled him again, and he lifted his back leg to cow kick (he threatens, doesn’t go too fast) so I just held the girth under his belly, and pet him when he relaxed. Then buckled it on the first hole, and left it there. He also pinned ears when I touched his girth area, so again, just waited until he relaxed. That’s all we did, and after a few minutes, no reaction to my hand or touching the girth. So I’ll just keep up with it, unless he doesn’t improve/proves it’s still painful, vice behavioral. Just frustrated it didn’t magically go away this time and still nervous that could mean our first treatment didn’t clear up the Lyme! Fingers crossed it did and the girthy stuff is just learned.

[mroades]

sometimes the learned behavior never goes away

[cyberbay]

Also, horses can get long-term bruising of the sternum from the girth, so the girth pressure on that “permanently” sore area could be what you’re seeing.

You could also try pre-ride some gentle massage in the whole girth area, including around the elbows and up thru to the chest. The pectoral muscle runs all along there, basically. That may help your horse get more comfortable. Prepare to do it often, at least 3x/week, for several weeks or months, and then whenever the horse tells you.

[BEARCAT]

Can you change the routine? For example do the girth up on the right side (instead of the usual left?)
Sometimes the anticipation of pain is just as real in their minds than actual pain and changing things around can really help.

[LilyandBaron]

He is slightly better girthing “backward”, but he still lifts a hind leg - but he only lifts his left (near) hind, even if I girth up the other direction, so for safety, going backward is good, but doesn’t diminish his reaction much;). He will lift his right foreleg and try to nip, though. So weird. I saddled again today, still girthy. Went super slow, lunged, and got on to walk maybe ten strides. But not pushing it far until bloodwork let’s me know how he’s doing with Lyme and vitamin E. He was much less spooky which was good. Ugh. At least doing this gives me data to discuss with the vet. Hoping he improves, though!

[beowulf]

you might not be out of the woods yet – doxycycline is very harsh on the stomach and any time it was prescribed, the clients at the barn I managed were strongly encouraged to also supplement a pre/probiotic and ulser-shield / GG medication.

i’ve not had good luck with the behavior disappearing. either it’s still a persistent pathology (and in many cases, i suspect it is as very few owners actually change the management that caused ulcers in the first place) or it’s a learned defense mechanism that can be very difficult to deconstruct.

another thing to consider is a scope to see if the doxy wreaked havoc on the stomach, and possibly make sure your saddle fits 100%.

[LilyandBaron]

I’ll definitely discuss ulcers when the vet comes out - we did probiotics throughout the doxy, but if Lyme results are normal, sounds like back to ulcers possibly, as he’s had them in the past. Saddle fits, so at least ruled that out. Had it fitted about two years ago and again in January. Bless the amazingly patient saddle fitter for tolerating my gelding’s antics!!! I’d actually be happy if I confirm Lyme is gone and we treat ulcers post-antibiotics! I’m still giving him the benefit of the doubt on pain vs. mental scar from pain for now;)

[LilyandBaron]

Just an update - no more Lyme (yay!!!), still a hair low on vitamin E, so vet upped dose of vitamin E, and we agreed to treat for ulcers. Two weeks into blue pop rocks, he’s no longer girthy!!! Yay!!! I’ll gradually bring him back into work, but glad I know him well enough to know he’s very honest - if he says it hurts, it hurts. When I figure out what hurts and how to fix it, he is back to his good self! Hoping to preempt future issues by keeping ahead of vitamin E issues!