I just realized that when I said to warm up, I did not say how. I recommend a quiet, relaxed warm-up (for both rider and horse) at the walk and why I posted the Nuno video.
Especially in this cold weather, a warm-up at the walk is a great way to let muscles stretch and relax…for both horse and rider. The objective is for both horse and rider to get in synch.
For more advanced work, maybe at the end of the warm-up, walk-canter departs on a loose rein definitely will tell you if you are gripping with your thighs.
A “long leg” comes from calmness and relaxation, Relaxation comes from a rider who is in balance…NOT from from some “sticky” aids like full seats…
Though I will admit that some saddles (especially hard-as-rocks older Stubbens) require use of some sort of pad in order to allow one relax and not get rubbed raw.
Watch the first 10 seconds of this rider…a cross country ride at a gallop…see the rider with long legs showing extreme relaxation and no clenching with the legs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9ahmoXN3W8
Thank you! I do walk a lot in warm up with some LY and shoulder in, sometimes I add in some TOF but I’m also trying to maintain my horse’s forward because of his disposition, so mostly it is interspersed with loads of marching walks.
I my stickyseats in part to prevent me from clutching/squeezing. Mentally, they are training wheels, but do provide me with some additional ability to “let go” in the saddle.
I do get the concepts, but am having issues convincing my body to perform. If my stirrups are too long (still not long by anyone’s standards), it is not an issue of a lack of security, but rather I have shooting pain in my hips and cannot stretch them down the next day. They seize up, and then take many revolutions of the arena before I can convince my body that it will be ok. This doesn’t happen with shortened stirrups (unless a knee roll gets involved and then I’m in trouble). Once they do relax into position (which they will) I can ride, but then I cannot easily swing my leg to get off, and the next day they are worse.
To give you an example - when my hips are bad i cannot swing my leg over a bicycle either. It is not my inner thighs that are the problem but instead my hip feels locked into place, like the muscles required to lift the leg sideways will not do so, and almost as though something needs to break free deep inside my hip. I also have trouble with the “dog peeing on a fire hydrant” and other types of leg lifts.
It was for this reason that after I got my bursitis injected, went through physical therapy and it didn’t help, I gave up on dressage and went back to my hunter saddle so at least I could ride. But I have dressage aspirations and enjoy the process and quite frankly I just don’t enjoy the hunter ring any more. So I decided to give it another try, this time being more careful of my hips and going slowly so that I didn’t aggravate them to the point where they say “no” again. Advil before and after the ride does help.
I asked the question in part to see whether anyone older had any difficulties, since my dressage instructor seemed to indicate that I was unusual (never a good thing) and in part to determine whether I was just rushing it. I have been known to expect way too much too quickly of myself and push myself way too hard in athletic events. This has gotten to be a problem as I get older as my body no longer appreciates such treatment. It was so very much more tolerant when I was young.
I do appreciate all the feedback, tips, and assistance that all have given me. I find it valuable to hear from others because there always may be a tidbit that unlocks the gate finally.
OP…I am of the belief that “If it hurts, don’t do it” philosophy. So given what you have said above, then my suggestion is to listen to your body.
You seem to have some medical issues that would be best resolved medically to help you with your equitation goals. Your description of problems with the “dog peeing” leg lift indicates perhaps problems iliopsoas or its bursa.
Do you have pain in the groin? Can you sit, cross one leg over the other and push down on the knee without hurting? Did the doctor you went for the injection shoot up the outside of the hip or in the groin?
I don’t know what kind of doc you went to, but some of the symptoms you describe are indications of arthritis in the hip. You should see an orthopedist (with a good reputation for outcomes) who does total hip surgery…BUT (this is a big BUT) it has to be a doc who is willing to work with you as a patient and who is not a knife happy surgeon who thinks he/she can play god and fix all problems with the scalpel.
Look for a doc who is willing look into using both PT and cortisone injections to relieve the symptoms and who is willing to work with you determine whether your pain is due to arthritic changes or perhaps other musculoskeletal issues.
According to the first ortho it isn’t arthritis but he didn’t do an MRI, just an X-ray. He poked the outside of my hip, i yelped, he injected and prescribed PT. PT did all kinds of movements except the dog peeing lift. I can do all of them.
I can do the cross leg thing push knee down without pain, it just doesn’t go very far. Also leaning forward with my legs in that position is…silly - I don’t get very far even rounding my back. That was discovered in the Pilates class - so would that indicate psoas issues? My suspicion is that some muscle is weak/damaged and so the ligaments around my hip are what are doing more work than they are supposed to. So strengthening the right muscles may be helping.
Essentially though, I got frustrated with the dismissive attitude of that first ortho - right now I don’t look like an athlete (gray hair, a few extra pounds, and female) and I think that factored into it. I’m on the hunt for a new one, but I can’t not ride while I’m trying to figure this out. Too much work went into getting back into this point. Even a week off sets me back considerably, confidence-wise. So while I try to diagnose the issue I still want to work on it from the saddle. If I require surgery, fine, I’ll follow orders, but I want to minimize the time I’m out.
I did ride in the Stubben and was able to put my stirrups down a hole today. I can’t ride for a few days because of work travel but I was pretty pleased.
Again, thanks again. This is I’m sure a multifactorial problem, so I’m not expecting a silver bullet.
I am not a doc…but I do hang around some medical/orthopedic types…so take this FWIW…
It doesn’t have to be “binary”…as in if you have bursitis, you don’t have arthritis…it could be you have/had both.
The “poking around outside of the hip” is to determine if there was irritation in the trochanteric bursa (eg., to see if you had bursitis).
A bursa is fluid filled sac that provides cushioning between bones and muscles, tendons & ligaments. The trochanteric bursa provides a cushion between the back of the greater trochanter, (the bony protrusion at the top of the femur) a part of the gluteus medius tendon, and the insertion of the vastus (another muscle).
I believe in being an educated patient. This paper discusses trochanteric bursitis as a precursor to joint failure. I think you need a new doc that will work with you. https://pubs.rsna.org/doi/abs/10.114…Code=radiology
Personal recommendations from friends is my way to go. Some orthos think patients should bow down before them…when that happens, I find a new doc.
Keep working with the Pilates instructor to see if you can diagnose what positions trigger the problem. You can do a lot to help “self-diagnose” by playing around with range of motion exercises.
Diagnosis of orthopedic conditions are based a lot doing very specific physical tests to determine where/how limitations of the joint start to arise.
I don’t doubt that bursitis was one factor in my issues. Injecting that did help me be able to sleep on my sides again etc, it just didn’t fix the riding issue. I’ve always had some hip weirdness (my thighs rotate inward from the hip more than is normal, and they actually reset my brother’s hips and casted his legs when he was an infant) but when I was young it wasn’t a problem. It’s catching up with me now. Most of my relatives have now had hips and knees replaced. I’m hoping to avoid that if I can. One of my uncles got MRSA in both hips after replacement and that was enough to scare me silly.
I just found the Trendelenburg test and had my husband look at me from behind. My hip does drop, so that’s a clue too.
My current trainer kept me on a pretty short stirrup so I could stabilize my leg and build strength. Late summer, we added 3 holes. I finally graduated. It wasn’t the easiest thing since I do have pretty tight everything, but doing leg stretches at the walk made a huge difference.
Then I switched saddles to a model that fit the horse and myself much better. Suddenly I was in a much better position more naturally and was able to drop another 4 holes while still maintaining a quiet leg.
I have been with my current trainer about 2.5 years and she really wanted me to have a more stable leg before going any longer. I went to the gym and did pilates to help strengthen. I have been back in the saddle about 6-7 years now. Looking at older photos of myself from 6 years ago, my stirrups were so short that my knees were resting on the knee rolls.
Really, it all just depends on so many factors. But think in years, and any stretching and strengthening that you do, and all the saddle time you can get, all make a difference.
7 holes longer! How short were you at the start?!! I take my stirrups up 5 or 6 holes to jump and feel like a pea on a plate. Anyway, apart from being really impressed by the change you have already achieved, I was just going to to mention … heels.
To me, as a Brit, it seems the American h/j style puts huge emphasis on “heels down”, to a degree that makes me wince to even look at some images. Look at images of e.g. Carl Hester, Isobel Werth, Ingrid Klimke and see that their feet are almost parallel to the ground. Yes, weight down into the heel but never forced or to an extreme. It is very hard to have the relaxed hips spoken of in previous responses if your heels are locked up tight.
Years of pushing heels down might have contributed to your current problems with your pelvic area.
Heels should be done over fences much more so than in dressage. Even when I go into two point in a dressage saddle, my heels go far lower than they do while I’m sitting in the saddle.
Yeah, I feel like this is naturally where some of the weight goes in a jumping/out of the saddle position.
I might get flack here, so I’m going to zip my flame suit and speak from my personal experience, but I feel like hunter/jumpers gives the rider a somewhat crap riding foundation. In Germany, we start with dressage riding first, and I think this is more advantageous. I’m one of the fewer people that was not started this way, and I think it was detrimental to my riding. The American hunter/jumper style riders that I’ve met over the years… I haven’t been impressed. But I think I’m meeting B-circuit riders, or whatever you may call it. Not from the high levels of the sport, so maybe there’s that too. None knew any lateral work, weren’t so great at sitting trot, rode too forward with their body, and just couldn’t get the horse using themselves well. I don’t know if this is typical, or just my experience.
I also understand the origins on hunter/jumpers, so yes, it is going to be different from dressage in a few ways. I’m not looking down upon all riders of this discipline, as many can probably ride a better course than me, just my experiences and observations. In my small world.
I’m more of a technical rider (purely talking about on the flat for simplicity sake here), so maybe it’s that.
I could see the journey from hunter/jumpers to dressage being a long conscious effort. Not impossible by any means! But requires patience with your body and adapting to a different style.
Again, I spent years upon years in a jump saddle, loosening these hips has not been easy!
I think my stirrup length difference between jumping and dressage is about 3 to 4 holes. Varies on saddle, horse, and distance between holes, so this is not a totally exact statement. So I can’t conclude much when one person drops 3 holes, and another drops 6.
I had to unlearn grip with the knee and heels down at some point in my riding history, probably about mid-1980s after ears of old fashioned teaching as a child and teenager. Obviously, ones heels go down when using a shorter stirrup in a forward seat.
In addition to the very good advice you have gotten already, the note about ab strength is a biggie. Or at least it was for me when I converted - also as a middle aged adult with a desk job.
One thing that also changed for me as I got more accustomed to sitting differently - my saddle preference changed. A lot. I went from a pretty minimalist dressage saddle which let me organize my lower body however I wanted/was comfortable to a more structured model, complete with bigger blocks, five or six years later. The seat is a bit deeper and the blocks aren’t restrictive but feel more supportive and very comfortable now that I have a straighter leg and a more open hip.
Welcome to the club. I have loved the change and only wish I had switched over sooner!
I think part of it is finding a dressage saddle that fits you. I cannot have a super straight thigh without my hips hurting. But that’s because with my conformation my pelvis tilts forward (which of course is not how you are supposed to sit). I can allow my pelvis to be neutral and my leg to hang if I have my knees a little more forward. I’m not in a chair seat…my calf stays underneath me and of course a chair seat would mean my pelvis would rotate backwards which is not the case.
What helps is the right balance in the seat of the saddle and a forward flap and shorter block. Some companies do make various flap and block options. My stirrups are still several holes longer than how I’d ride in a jump saddle. I am more balanced and my hips don’t hurt nor does my crotch because I’m still sitting neutral. Would my pelvis tend to do this if I didn’t have decades of h/j riding? Who knows but that’s how my body is shaped now. Riding without stirrups will help your lengthen the leg but remember that you can only lengthen it as much as your pelvis allows.
I forget to come back here sometimes.
I never rode h/j, aside from just “English” lessons as a kid. I do have tight hamstrings, and a lot of weakness in my right leg caused from a broken tibia 16 years ago.
I have very long legs. I’m 6’ for reference, not sure my inseam. My trainer had me shorten to help stabilize my leg and build strength. I rode shortened for about 2 years, hitting the gym and building muscle and learning how to be more quiet. Then back in August, it was mentioned by more than one person in a short period that maybe the stirrups were too short. So we tried one day and just kept adding holes - three total. It was awesome. I had to do stretches while warming up for a couple weeks.
Then shortly after that, I switched from a very mediocre saddle that didn’t do too much for either my nor horse, to a custom that fit us both like a glove. Suddenly, I HAD to go another four holes. The saddle changed everything about my position and the horse’s way of going. It was pretty cool.
Doing things correctly and methodically didn’t really start happening until I came to my current trainer. I think my stirrup length was everywhere before her.
I still need to work on lengthening those hammies, and opening my hips, but I’m just so glad to finally have my legs quiet enough to not be an utter embarrassment. Lol
A small example of the difference in stirrup lengths. There are no known photos with that midway length, and also we are working toward lengthening one more hole in time. The last shot is on a new horse that I am riding temporarily who is more saddle seat than dressage so the stirrup lengths are all over the place with him. https://imgur.com/a/7jo3VP4
I just did my first session with her and she is amazing!! Holy cow! Somehow her stretches managed to target the stuck points in my hips and my range of motion increased at least 10 degrees even with just the stretches we did. I am beyond thrilled - thank you so much for the recommendation!!
@OneGrayPony I am beyond thrilled that you had such a great experience! Funny too, because I just messaged her that I was feeling so much stronger and the exercises were getting easier. And, yes, I TOO am feeling looser in my hips. I look forward to staying in touch with you and seeing our progress as time goes on! Merry Christmas!
For sure!! I rode today for the first time since my appointment and I could actually take my thighs out and away from the saddle! Which meant that I wasn’t riding with the handbrake on for my poor horse (who thought that forward was much simpler when I wasn’t riding the brakes). I got on with no real pain, and though I didn’t try any of the wonderful other tips this ride (I wanted to have this be a controlled experiment), I was able to get comfy quick.
Saddle fitter is coming tomorrow to check us out - I feel so encouraged!
