I get that this is 100% a process and I don’t expect anything overnight.
But what can a middle aged lady who works a desk job but rode hunters for 30 years expect in terms of lengthening stirrups over time. How much time? Years?
I just want to set my expectations appropriately 
And not injure myself trying to do too much too soon. I’m still getting used to this middle aged body, and it’s not been an easy road!
Depends what you think dressage length is.
Most of us are never going to get the very straight leg that’s a combination of body type and horse conformation. A rider with little padding on the thighs and a more narrow or slab sided horse will have a leg that looks longer than a rider with fluffier thighs on a horse with a big ribcage.
I have seen photos where I felt my leg was amazingly long and relaxed but actually I look like I’m just riding in a jump saddle with hacking length stirrups
More important aspects of the jumper to dressage transition are learning to sit into the saddle, to drop the thigh rather than jam the heels, and to sit up tall not fold at the waist. If you can get these seat things then your leg will eventually find a functional length for you and your horse. Don’t fixate on the leg. Work on your seat and the leg will come along.
This is such a good answer, I’m just sharing it again.
(But think in years, not months.)
Slab sided horse - check. Fluffy thighs…well, those I’ve got - I’m middle aged after all
I’ve got the sitting up thing ok (at least in pictures) but there are two motivations for me to really work on this. The first is that I’m really really long thighed, so shorter stirrups do not work with any saddle without a very forward flap because the stirrup length puts my knee over the edge of the knee roll and…ugliness ensues. In fact, I removed the knee blocks because I just can’t take the width on my aged and arthritic hips. I thought maybe my hips were just hosed (and I do have bursitis which has been injected, but it didn’t solve the problem 100%) but then again, maybe there’s also a ridden solution to this.
My thigh “rotation” downward max is about here (https://thehorse.com/137148/stirrup-placement-and-rider-biomechanics-whats-the-link/) - obviously that’s not me, but that’s about as far as I can drop them without pain at present. I can sit up just fine. I’ve got a long way to go, clearly.
Right now I’m totally happy riding in my extra-forward flap hunter saddle, but obviously I’ll hit a point at which a dressage saddle would be more appropriate to ride in. I’m guessing a lot of dropping stirrups at the walk might be helpful for quite awhile.
Yes, riding without stirrups will give you a better feeling for how open and relaxed your hip should be. I ALWAYS warm up at the walk without stirrups, because it opens up my hips and helps them relax after sitting at a desk all day. You want the feeling of kneeling in the saddle - knees stretching forward and down, so your hip joint can open up.
I transitioned initially in about 6 months, but that was at 21. But it took me much longer to have a sense of security at the longer length, and to really develop my seat so that I could be effective.
If you have pain, stay within your limits. Take your time. If walking without stirrups and a LONG leg feels comfortable, you might be able to get there with stirrups. But your body is inclined to be tight through the hip from hunters and a desk job, so it will be tough to retrain. If you can, try out some Pilates to help you learn to relax and open up some of those joints that don’t want to. Bonus, it will help with the core strength and balance you need for dressage.
Drop your stirrups for every walk break. As you feel comfortable, work on sitting trot (on the lunge if needed). Find that point of complete relaxation where your leg dangles from the hip socket like a wet noodle - no grip anywhere. Don’t try to hold it for too long.
Separately, you’ll probably need to do some hip flexor stretches out of the saddle.
As someone who made that transition (though as a kid, not as an adult), I think it’s really important to be gradual about it. Just drop one hole at a time until you’re comfortable with that length. If you just drop them all at once, you’re going to feel really unstable and not like it at all.
Ok sounds like you have some extra things going on. You might want to try some off the horse exercises or physio. Also you will want a dressage saddle with a flatter seat and minimal thigh blocks so that your leg is not forced down and back by the tack. I agree riding without stirrups is a good idea. Also check that you are not bracing on the stirrups in order to drop your heels. You want to relax your legs more.
All really useful, thank you all!
I made an appointment at the local Pilates studio. I do Yoga, but I’m not sure that I can get at the problem by myself in my own practice. It does help some, and I’ll continue to do it. The ortho hasn’t been terrifically helpful, nor was PT, but I’m going to try to find another one. I just don’t want to quit riding in the meantime, because I’ve made a lot of progress and I don’t want to screw that up (I have some PTSD from falls from about 10 years ago and the only cure apparently is riding almost every day - a few days off and I backslide a little).
I suspect it’s a combination of tension, former injury, regular ol’ inflexibility, and the change from hunters -> dressage. I want to be tackling them all appropriately, and expect the right things of myself. That’s why knowing that for not broken young people it can still take months, and years is an ok answer
Well, a little over 2 years later I think I’ve almost got my dressage position down. :lol:
I think dropping your stirrups during your walk warm up does help.
I really began focusing more on my core strength and hip/leg stretches. This made a world of difference. I already worked my core regularly, but I stepped it up a notch. If I slack off on my stretches I feel like I’m a clothespin in the saddle. So Pilates may be a good first step to make.
I also bend my leg back in the saddle for a few seconds (think moving your heel to your bum, bending your knee, elongating your quadracep muscles) and it helps my weight drop. My horse is tolerant of these maneuvers, fortunately.
Before I did not look forward to riding in a dressage saddle with longer stirrups, but now when I ride in a jump saddle (here and there on a friend’s horse) I feel all bound up and that I cannot use my hips and seat quite as well as in the dressage saddle.
It really is different, and tight hips can be your worst enemy. It will certainly take some time to develop new muscle and memory, so be patient.
It’s counter intuitive (at least to me) but half pigeon and lizard poses really open up my hips - I make a point to spend a minute in each pose (and lunges) on each side 3x a work day at my sad little cubicle. Sitting at a desk has messed with my position so much - it takes a conscious effort to continuously do things to try and counter its effects.
Be mindful of the twist of your saddle. Sometimes hunter and jumper riders keep their stirrups so short that the twist almost never comes into play. Now that you are sitting deeper in your saddle, you may be feeling it and it may not be right. I find people with a twist that is inappropriate tend to sit a little too far back in the saddle to avoid it, kind of what the rider in the photo that OP linked. And stretching your hips before you get on is great, but it won’t help if the structure of the twist is just too wide for your pelvis.
Also, if you have a long thigh, forget the Steffen Peters look, as you will totally fry hips trying to get that position. If you look at pictures of him riding, his thigh looks shorter than his calf, so he can have more bend in his knee and hip without our eyes picking up on it right away.
I too have a long thigh, and no matter what I do, there is a limit to how much block I can handle before it interferes with my leg. The maximum block I can ride effectively with is about 5" long and tear-dropped in shape. I find less saddle is better for me, although finding nice, minimalist, dressage saddles nowadays is really hard.
For me, the main step was learning to “open” my hips.
When you first get on, grab the back of your thigh, and pull it back and out.
Each time you come back to a walk, do it again.
It is a question of using different muscles, so it will take MANY repetitions.
Once your thigh will stay “out of the way”, THEN try lengthening your stirrups. You will probably have to go through the whole process again with the longer stirrups, but it is easier than trying to do both at the same time, or trying to lengthen your stirrups with out rotating your thighs
I’d add, women shouldn’t look at any male riders position to hope to emulate because men’s hips pelvis and thighs are set on differently than women. Also not at any 12 year old girl
Look at women of your age, height and weight. You might find that there are quite skilled local riders carrying a few pounds and years who look overall good on their horses but in fact don’t have a super straight leg.
You do want to have that line from ear through hip and heel. Jumper saddles can sometimes permit s bit of chair seat if the rider becomes correctly balanced in forward seat and two point. Sometimes even excellent jumper riders will look a bit chair seat when they sit in between jumps in short stirrups.
But chair seat is the enemy of dressage. It’s not so much where your knees are but whether your ankles are under your hips. If you tend to jam your heels down for jumper style security you can end up shooting your feet forward and getting behind the motion of the horse.
It took me about a year. However, I was riding multiple horses in a day, and a schoolmaster or two a week. I was in my late 20’s, and it was a whole lot easier, then. Also, I started out in saddle seat. I’d say that the transition to hunt seat was easier, but then, when I transitioned to dressage, I was working at being really good at it. When I started jumping (in my cutback saddle) I was just hoping to survive. I eventually went all in hunter/jumper professionally. :lol:
I will tell you that the more stretching that you can do, on the ground, before you get on, the better. And the walking both directions, and even doing some turns on the forehand, head to wall leg yield, the better, You need to sit back, open your hip angle, and be able to sue your legs properly to do those things correctly- so they make great exercises.
Ride without stirrups for about 30 minutes at the start of every ride and you will find that your stirrup leathers have magically shrunk by about 2-3 holes.
You can do this for your warm-up without stirrups to get in synch with your horse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E4gqOASkZg
Keep doing this and you will find that your leg has automatically assumed a longer profile. I don’t believe it takes “years”…but it does take paying faithful attention to your equitation and posture…every ride.
I think that, in addition to some of the great advice you’ve gotten above, riding in a dressage saddle with longer stirrups requires a lot more abdominal strength to feel that same degree of security. You need to be able to trust that your abs will actually stabilize you (without becoming rigid), as opposed to relying on your leg muscles.
So Pilates I think is great, largely because it tends to focus both on the abs and on the inter-relationships of the various muscles. Getting your body to “re-think” itself is a long-term project. (I speak from my own experience with Pilates). It helps if you can find a Pilates instructor who is also a rider, or who has experience in working with riders.
I’d also recommend getting a gel seat-saver. This will give you a little extra “stick” in the saddle which I’ve found useful even as I also routinely wear full seats.
Also, go for hacks in your dressage saddle without worrying about getting the super-long length in the stirrups. Going up and down hills, through the woods, at various gaits in the saddle will also help you develop more trust and stability.
@pluvinel Thank you.
I’ve taken my first Pilates lesson and am working to warm up & stretch both before I get on the horse and with dropping my stirrups during my ride. I think part of my issue is that the “wrong” muscles are being activated in posting trot because of my now hybrid seat (think perhaps a bit of a tilted pelvis yet, plus the short stirrups, but sitting up). The Pilates coach also noted that I’m somewhat twisted physically (a number of falls off of green horses over 30 years will do that to a person haha) but that I was stronger than she thought. Thanks…I think?
I’m going to try one of my dressage saddles on my boy today. It’s an older Stubben with not much of a block, and my hope is that I can at least use this as my next transitional saddle. I think the hunter saddle is tipping my pelvis a bit forward now that my seat is a bit deeper, so…baby steps.
The other good thing is that my horse is a terrific barometer. When my seat is right, he trots forward in front of the leg into a lovely contact. When it is wrong, or I am off balance in any way, he throws his head and threatens to stall out behind. While this is a PITA habit and perhaps not amateur friendly, he doesn’t let me get away with riding poorly and for that I am quite grateful.
Thank you again all for the wonderful advice and suggestions.
Posted at the same time! Thank you!!
I do ride in full seats (I’m a big fan of stickyseats brand) but I will look at the gel seat savers - I’ve never tried one!!
If my dressage saddle works today, I will try to go for hacks in it for sure We don’t have much land around us, but there is a small trail, and I’ve just made a very good friend with a gal with a solid trail horse (my horse is a bit more green on trails than I would like to go out alone) so it’s on our agenda for sure.
If you are looking at UL riders, you must remember tha many of them have been in a dressage saddle since birth ,well almost. Their muscles and tendons have never shortened as they have in many h/j riders, including eventers. they are also outstandingly fit.
Your age, sorry, doesn’t help, but is no excuse for not developing a effective dressage position. Think kneeling with your legs, allowing your knee to drop, but your ankle to remain loose. Lead with you hips, rolling on your thighs when rising. Think up with your upper body marching tall, get a crease down the center of your back, created by shoulders up and back.
It will take as long as it takes to beat your body into submission.
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