The point of the sport is to stay on. And if the horse is upright and in a safe area (not charging across highway traffic or something), it’s safer to stay on than to fall off. You should definitely work on staying on - choose focal points so you aren’t looking at the ground or at the jump you’re going over, don’t get too far forward, improve your balance, that kind of thing. But there are circumstances in which even good riders fall, and it’s not the end of the world.
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Falling off is to be avoided because it gets you hurt.
Falling off alot suggests you are trying to do things you aren’t properly prepared for.
Falling off alot because your horse has a dirty stop suggests your horse is not a safe or appropriate horse for you at this stage.
Yes, you are falling off a lot in one particular situation which is horses with dirty stops.
Falling off is not “wrong” and it does not automatically make you a “bad rider.” You need to stop thinking in such simplistic terms
Falling off is however very dangerous and if you are falling off alot from dirty stops then you need to change something before you break your neck
That can mean changing horses, changing programs, or learning to ride with enough force and concentration to get the job done every time on this horse.
“Bad rider” is a meaningless term. Obviously you are 19 and you are not a pro or even a top junior. That’s fine. It is what it is. You are better than some riders your age and not as good as other riders your age. Every single one of us keeps learning year over year.
Besides we have never seen you ride and have no idea how well you ride. We can’t say.
All I can say with certainty is that your problem is not your seat per se so much as it is your ability to ride these horses to the fence in a consistently convincing way. If you get that fixed you will not be falling off. If you don’t, you will eventually get badly hurt.
So the falling off in this case points to a bigger problem.
In other words, if the horse was running out and you were not falling off you would have the same problem on your hands. It is not the falling off but the inability to take the horse over the jump that is the bigger problem.
Without seeing the whole situation I can’t say if it is wrong horse, wrong trainer, wrong program, or just your own lack of strength and concentration. Or some combination.
But falling off is just a symptom here. The real problem is dirty stops.
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OP has clarified that she only falls off when the horse has a really dirty stop, and that these are common in her horse and trainers horses.
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Something here doesn’t add up.
Either OP is way overhorsed, or OP is being asked to do far more than OP’s skill set (which is what it sounds like to me), or OP is messing with us. No one who rides this often and jumps this height competently would wonder if falling off is wrong. Being on the horse is integral to riding horses.
OP, does your trainer have a record of success in training other riders? Because honestly, a lot of this raises red flags to me. No one should be coming off this regularly, nor should someone just learning to jump a height be doing it on an animal that’s a dirty stopper. This is a recipe for you to get hurt.
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I have fallen off four times in the year and a half I’ve been riding. Three times in lessons, one time just hacking my horse.
The first, a lesson horse reared then bucked me off. I had barely sat on his back and suddenly I was in the dirt.
The second, after I bought my horse, we were cantering to an extremely small jump (we’re talking the smallest cross rail, barely even more than a slightly raised pole) my sweet boy decided that this was the scariest thing he had ever seen and instead of just cantering over it as expected, he decided to jump it four feet into the air- he basically jumped the top of the standard. I was in no way expecting him to jump it like that and found myself in the dirt.
The third time we were cantering along the rail on a loose rein, my boy spooked (one of the trainers popped up out of a shadow in the bushes) and he jumped left then up the bank in the middle of the arena and down off the other side. At this point I had no reins and no stirrups, and decided it was better to just bail.
The fourth time we were cantering (less than a week later) along the rail, and in the same spot, the sprinkler turned on and sprayed us right as we went by. It was the weirdest experience, I suddenly didn’t have a horse under me anymore.
@supershorty628
I understand that staying on the horse is integral, thats why I was wondering if me having falling off 13 times in almost 4 years is bad.
My trainer has produced national champions every year, its rare that one of his students doesn’t achieve national success, including myself and I am very honored that he teaches me. I don’t fall of daily, my last fall was in the beginning of January, my horse was pretty fresh and I hadn’t ridden in a month, and in that fall I landed on my feet before getting back on and finishing my lesson well.
I don’t really consider my horse to be a dirty stopper considering he has never done that in shows and in practice he only runs out or stops when I ride horribly or don’t use my aids correctly. He’s simply a ‘sassy’ bay gelding and honestly he’s taken me to heights i never thought I’d reach. We’ve jumped y to 1.40 together (in a grid) and it he’s taught me to ride and not be a passenger because a horse won’t just do everything for you.
Also, to clarify, my first 6 falls were from my first year riding with my first trainer, I rotated horses often and boy those were wild horses and I was a novice (they stopped at every jump and then reared up), second year I fell off twice, third year I fell twice, and this year I’ve fallen three times.
I was told after my third or fourth spill I couldn’t dream of calling myself a rider until forty falls ( horse or rider). I lost count around 15 or so I’d guess. Sure I’ve surpassed 40 over my life time - maybe way more if you include things like 11 times in one lesson learning to trot bareback on a shark withered bouncy Arab.
Losing confidence is never fun but may be a sign to start thinking and asking questions to keep learning.
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I’ve fallen off more times than I can count over 30 years. Sometimes they were horse related (bucking spree) sometimes they were idiot related (gallop sets in a pasture with no stirrups after not riding for 6 years - not one of my brighter moments). All that it indicates is that you’ve hit the dirt. Repeated falls with the same circumstances mean you’re missing *something. I had a mare that was incredibly consistent about being a dirty stopper if you leaned at the fence. She taught me to stay in the tack and wait for her. But until I figured that lesson out, I hit the dirt a fair number of times, and if I got sloppy, she’d remind me. It took me awhile, so I guess I was kind of a crappy rider during that period of time. I don’t know, I didn’t think of it that way, just thought, man, I’ve got to learn how to stay in the tack.
The way I see it is - if you want to never fall off, that’s fine, but that means that you’re going to limit the horses that you ride. If you want to become a better rider, with more challenging horses, you WILL come off occasionally. It’s just part of the whole deal.
Again - I’m not talking about falling off once a week - that probably indicates something is seriously wrong. And at over 40, I now limit the horses I ride because older bodies can’t take the hits as easily. But if I were 18-24? I’d probably still be pushing and still occasionally hitting the dirt.
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If we have to give a yes-or-no answer, then I say: Yes, falling off is wrong. You can get hurt when you fall. The horse probably learns something when you fall, and it probably isn’t a good something. And repeated falls, or serious falls, often damage riders’ confidence, making it even harder to ride effectively.
On a side note, I think we’re mixing terms here - to me a “dirty stop” is a horse refusing a jump that is within their scope and that is ridden well. For example, a bad spook at the base of the jump. It’s unfortunate but not dirty for a horse to refuse a fence that is too high for its ability. It’s unfortunate but not dirty for a horse to refuse a 1.2m fence if the rider makes more than an occasional mistake.
So, OP - I respect that you respect your trainer, and you sound tough. But nobody is going to tell you that regularly getting dumped in front of fences Is a good thing. I think you know that, or at least your subconscious does, because you’re feeing anxious.
I think you need to work with your trainer to tackle the issue from two sides. First, you need to be honest with yourself about how many mistakes you are making. If you are having a 1.2m ride, and you’re missing the distance more than one or two times per ride, you are going to get into trouble. 1.2m is commonly understood to be the height at which horses start minding that you make a mistake. It’s too much effort to keep bailing you out. We all make mistakes, but you need to step back and concentrate on your eye for distances and your pace control at lower jumps until you can honestly say that you are very unlikely to make mistakes to the jumps. (This has nothing to do with winning classes - it’s about confidence.)
And second, it sounds like there’s no reason you can’t work on getting better at riding the stop. If your horses are going to stop at the jumps when you make a mistake, staying on is a skill you need to develop. Stop getting surprised when they don’t jump, especially when you see a mistake coming. And if you don’t see mistakes coming, refer to the first point above.
Good luck, OP, and stay safe! You can do it.
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@Redlei44
I agree with everything you say and you’re right… I think you are 100% right. I have only been riding with my current instructor for a year and a half, with my new horse barely over 6 months, so maybe going back to 1.10 just to improve my distances won’t hurt, and honestly my horse had only really ever competed at 1m before i bought him and I’m not exactly my trainer, I’m still learning to jump higher than 1m. I also have to understand that my horse can be a bit dificult, even when he forgives my bad distances once or twice at most, so I have to ride him. Though I luckily don’t get dumped that often ;^^ I max out at maybe 4 falls a year at most, i have a friend that falls once a month at least.
I usually can sit a stop or a refusal but silly old me got distracted so yeah, i have to learn to concentrate as well especially at that height.
Thank you for the sound advice, usually people immediately just say ‘Switch trainers’ or ‘you’re over horsed’ or worst of all ‘sell your horse’. I’ll try to bring up what you said to my trainer tomorrow and see what he thinks.
Thank you! Stay safe as well
Maybe I’m the only one but I don’t really think “Yes, falling off is wrong” sounds quite right.
Sure, falling off means you or your horse did something wrong. It should definitely be avoidedbecause of the obvious chance of injury. But falling off is also a completely normal and necessary part of learning to ride.
I’ve gone four years without falling. I’ve also fallen off three times in a summer (two different years) and twice in one day.
Yeah, 13 in four years is a little high. That doesn’t make you a bad rider. If you were riding a dead broke completely automatic school horse around 2’ and you fell off 13 times in four years that would be a different story. But you’re jumping a stopper around 1.20m. Getting a horse like that around a big track is a pretty advanced skill set and a LOT of people would fall off trying to do that. Take it back a notch until you and your horse are more comfortable. We’ve all been there.
So 2 weeks ago I fell off 3 times in a week. That’s like a record for me. Last year I fell off 1 time. Then the time before that was 8 years prior. Anything before and I’ve lost count. I’ve been riding for 22 years so I’ve fallen many many times in all kinds of scenarios. Luckily I’ve not been seriously hurt. 
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OP, just clarifying something from this thread…did you say that you ride a young, reactive horse who is 17.4?
Oh really? 17.4 hh?
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Thats what the internet told me :lol: In mexico we don’t measure with hands so I just input his size to the cross and that’s what popped up. He’s between 1.75m to 1.76m to the cross, a pretty big KWPN but its not surprising considering his parents are pretty big as well. His sire was 1.78 to the cross
Okay, but like … the height you’re jumping doesn’t really matter in this situation. Especially not in a grid - that’s not an indication of your ability and competency. I might be wasting my time with this post, but I’m going to try anyway.
So there’s really a few components coming into play here, right - there’s 1.) the stopping, 2.) the ride contributing to the stopping or at least not preventing it, 3.) being mounted on horses that are inappropriate, 4.) this one is just a hunch, but I’m willing to bet on it based on what you’ve written, OP, that you don’t actually have a strong enough foundation and this is contributing to --> 5.) falling off somewhat on the regular. So let’s address these one at a time.
1 and 3 to an extent.) I’m standing by my statement that you shouldn’t be on horses that regularly stop when you make a mistake. Horses being unforgiving of mistakes are not appropriate for someone learning to do a new height. I’m not talking about horses who go over unless you pretty much would be killing them from your distance choice, because that’s not what this sounds like. This sounds like if you make a mistake, the horse won’t bail you out ever. That’s problematic for a few reasons - you’re going to make mistakes as you learn, but it also suggests that the horse either isn’t scopey enough to help you or doesn’t THINK he’s scopey enough to help you. You should not have to be dead-on accurate every single time. If you do, you need to reconsider what you’re asking the horse to do for you. And I do think it’s a different ride at 1.20m than 1.10m, and that takes time to learn. And you need to be learning on a horse that’s a good teacher. The situation you’re in is going to take a toll on your confidence. It sounds like it is already. Often I think moving up to a new height is best done gradually - putting the out of a line up to that height first, and then making verticals at that height, and then doing full courses at that height. This is particularly important if you’re sitting on a horse that’s playing at the top of its game or that struggles with confidence (also works for riders struggling with confidence).
2 and 4.) If this doesn’t happen with your trainer and does happen with you, there are really a couple different explanations for that. One, your trainer is obviously better than you are (otherwise why would you train with him), and so has the skills to be able to make it happen. Second, and again, this is a hunch based on what you’ve said, but I’m guessing that you actually don’t have a strong foundation in your basics and that’s contributing to your problem. Equitation isn’t just about looking pretty, it’s about being effective, and while there are countless examples of people at the top level who don’t have classical equitation, those are people at the top of the sport who have skills. For mere mortals like the rest of us, there is actually a reason behind wanting to pursue better equitation - it makes you more effective at what you do. If you’re saying that your equitation is “effective but not pretty,” but you’re also having issues with horses stopping and you ending up on the ground, I would argue that your equitation is, in fact, not effective, and at the very least isn’t helping you. Fortunately, there’s a solution to this! Get someone to video you so you can see where your weaknesses are. Leg not stable and giving you a solid base? Lots of posting with no stirrups for you. Core collapsing and leading to you leaning up the horse’s neck at the base of the fence? Get thee some pilates. Having videos of yourself will help immensely, and being really critical of them will make you a better rider. Focus on what you need to improve on, but also on what you do well. Maybe you do a good job of holding your pace once you come out of the turn to the approach and you keep the ride consistent. Maybe you’re great about looking up. Maybe you excel at keeping a straight line from bit to elbow. Watch these with your trainer, too. Unless these are insanely dirty stops, you shouldn’t be coming off when it happens.
3, reiterated.) It doesn’t really sound like your trainer has some of the skill sets that he needs. A young horse being brought along correctly should not be rearing and bucking regularly. Something is being done wrong there - I’ve brought along greenies and know that sometimes when they don’t understand, you can see some behaviors that are less than desirable, but if it’s a regular occurrence, they’re not being set up for success and taught new things in a stepwise fashion. And not everyone has the skills to bring along young horses - one of my trainers was THE reason that I got to where I did, but she was out of her element if you brought a super baby greenie in.
I know it’s not what you want to hear, OP, but if a lot of people are saying that you should switch trainers or that your horse is inappropriate for you, perhaps there’s some truth to it. It’s nice that your trainer gets results in the show ring, but a lot of what you’ve been saying in here does make me wonder if this is truly a situation where you’re able to learn to jump bigger fences safely, correctly, and in a way that will carry you forward during your riding career. It’s about more than winning ribbons at shows and being able to say you won this or that. It’s about having longevity in what you’re able to do because you’ve developed the horsemanship and the necessary skills to work through situations. And you can’t learn how to deal with it when it’s going wrong before learning how to do it when it’s going well.
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For a simple answer: yes, falling off that often, especially if it’s mostly due to your horse stopping at jumps, is not good.
By your own admission, the stops are from you riding badly. So that pretty much answers your question.
The solution, simply stated, is to ride better. Others have given good ways for you to do that. The simplest is, if you know that he doesn’t stop at shows, then you need to always ride like you are at a show. There is a reason they say perfect practice makes perfect. Every time you jump that (or any) horse, you need to be totally focused, all in. If you can’t always do that, then you probably need to step down a level or two. Even going back to just flatwork over poles on the ground might help. If you ARE riding really well and your horse is still stopping and running out, then you still should drop down levels to where you can ride him without any runouts whatsoever, even if that is crossrails.
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Yes, falling off that much is wrong. I would not own a horse that I fell off of that many times. I am much older than you but my goal is to never fall off. If either one of my horses did what you are talking about then I would sell them. Life is way too short to have a horse that you are not comfortable riding. It sounds like he cannot do what you are asking him to do or you are not giving him a confident ride. If you can’t learn to ride through that then he is not the horse for you.
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All of this 200%.
Supershorty is an accomplished amateur who has been successfully competing for years at and above the level of the OP so this is expert advice about how you get there without breaking bones or confidence
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I think you are being very hard on yourself in this situation. I think, too, that now you are second guessing yourself and your horse feels your indecision, which is why riders who are more firm can get past the stop. Now you are likely bracing and preparing for it and are part of the ongoing reason it is happening. Horses like this can kill your self esteem, but only if you let them.
If it’s happening at 1.0 and not .90, then I would be strongly considering going back to .90 and working on position. From previous posts earlier in this thread it seems like maybe you are anticipating the takeoff and aren’t staying back, which not only sends mixed signals to your horse but also sets you up for a dangerous situation. Perfect your technique at the lower, safer height and you will feel more confident as you adjust your riding. Then come back up slowly, with .95 first before the 1.0.
So much of this sport is in your head, and if you let it get to you when you are off the horse it will no doubt impact your time on the horse. And always, always visualize what you want to happen (get over the jump) and not what you don’t want to happen (a stop).
And if you can, read the Jane Savoie books about visualization. They truly helped me get through my life with a dirty stopper. So much is in our heads!
Best of luck and stay on!!
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