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How much can you expect from buying a school master horse?

Dressage
#1

Hi there,

I am currently in the process of looking at different horses to eventually buy my first horse. Because I am still only an “advanced beginner” level, I am thinking that a school master horse would be the best choice for me. (I am currently at frist/second level) However, I do wonder how much progress you can actually expect from riding a horse that has been there, done that. I mean, in the end, it still all comes down to whether the rider is talented or not, doesn’t it? Or to say it with different words: Let’s say that my goal is to become a solid fourth level rider. Is it possible for an average talended rider to achieve this with an FEI school master? Or do some people just never get to this level regardless of how talented their horses are?

I am just trying to get some clarity into this, as I do tend to get carried away by my expectations and wishes quite easily.

#2

Well, there are two components, the horse and the rider, and at least one of you knowing the job is better than neither of you knowing the job! It’s almost always more difficult for a rider to learn what correct movements feel like on a green horse, much less teach the horse to do movements correctly. Not impossible, just much less efficient. And it’s up to you to decide what kind of horse you like and what kind of riding experience you want. If you can only afford one and your dream is to bring along a young horse, a schoolmaster simply might not be the right horse for you. (Though I don’t think many folks would encourage you to dive into the green horse project thing before learning the ropes on a made horse if that’s an option for you.)

How much do you ride, and how old/sound is the schoolmaster? A novice rider who is able to ride 4-6 days weekly and lesson regularly is usually going to make good progress. A schoolmaster who has several work years left in them will still be around to carry you into higher levels.

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#3

All other things being equal, a rider will typically advance more quickly on a horse that already knows the job compared to a situation where the horse and rider have to learn things at the same time. Put another way, if a rider is trying to learn a new skill or movement, it helps to have a horse that will “answer the question correctly,” when the right aids are given. You can ask correctly with your aids on a green horse and still “not get the right answer” because the horse may still be learning, and it also makes it harder for a green horse to learn when the rider is ALSO still learning and therefore, may not ask 100% correctly each time either.

That said, the notion that someone can just “buy a ribbon,” so to speak, is also false. To your point, you still have to be able to ride. And for the record, it tends to be as much or more about your willingness to put in the time and effort to learn than it is about any sort of native talent. Of course talent / feel / ability helps… but as the saying goes, hard work beats talent every day if talent doesn’t do the work.

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#4

I learned more in 6 months on my Vinnie Girl than I did in 20 years riding and winning on my own trained horses.

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#5

Buying a school master was hands down the best investment I made in my riding, second best investment was doing the L program.

I had had success as an AQHA all around rider, and had worked at dressage on my quarter horse and another warmblood, so I wasn’t a novice but was struggling to get past 1st level.

The first couple of months were incredibly humbling, literally I could walk and passage and that’s it. No trot, no canter. He was incredibly kind but relied on completely correct riding. Once I got where I could walk, trot and canter it was bronze medal in 3 months. Everything I learned on him helped me with my younger horse and getting my silver medal. He was hands down the best horse that ever lived!!

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#6

Ditto above responses. I bought a schoolmaster years ago. He was smart and tolerant but I still had to learn to ride HIM. Worth every penny. taught me a lot.

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#7

I currently only ride two to three times a week on my lease horse. And I am looking into buying an FEI school master with experience up to Grand Prix, he is 17 years old, so already on the older side, but to be honest, I am not really into competing, so the horse would be for “at home use” only. I would try to get at least a lesson a week and to exercise the horse for 5 days a week.

#8

Schoolmasters are amazing. That said, horses are being trained all the time. A schoolmaster won’t stay at the level he is at the day you buy him. Every week he will regress towards your level. To truly benefit from a schoolmaster, you’ll need regular lessons and regular training rides from someone with the skill to ride him at his level. I’ve seen real disasters when someone buys a nice schoolmaster and thinks they’ll do fine with a monthly lesson. One got hotter and angrier dealing with the rider’s conflicting aids, another went lame because the rider wanted to do the tricks without learning to ride the horse over its back first. I’ve seen amazing transformations when the rider buys a schoolmaster and keeps it in half or full training.

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#9

An FEI schoolmaster may teach you a lot. Of course a lot depends upon the individual horse and his training and tolerances. Some horses will tolerate some fumbling and still respond correctly when you aid correctly. Others will quickly become frazzled and sour (Probably not actually a “schoolmaster” but still may be sold as such)

I never chose to invest in one, but I did have the opportunity to lesson on one which was valuable. My enjoyment comes through the training process with my horse so I have trained my own with help. Went down a lot of side roads but I greatly enjoy the process. YMMV

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#10

Hmm. I don’t consider a competent First or Second level rider to be an advanced beginner. I think you need to ride much better than that. The levels are about the horse’s training.

How do you know you are a first or second level rider? Have you competed and got OK scores? Or do you mean you are an advanced beginner who has been taking lessons on second level horses?

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#11

If you want to become a solid Third / Fourth Level rider, then doing it on a horse that is already confirmed at those levels is going to be a LOT easier than trying to learn yourself while also bringing a greener horse up the levels.

Yes, there are some riders who no matter what will not get to those levels, but their chances are far improved by having a horse that already knows its job. However IMO it comes down to horse rideability and temperament far more than talent.

I’ve had 2 green (5 and under) horses and 2 schoolmasters in their 20s - one schooling I1 and one schooling PSG. I learned more in 1 year on one of the schoolmasters than in 10 years combined with the two young horses.

BUT, your success will depend not only on the horse. To move from “advanced beginner” to Fourth Level a lot of other factors are in play.

  • You have to put the work in, be willing to take lessons at least twice a week at this stage, and be riding at least 4 times a week. Time in the saddle is key.
  • you have to develop sufficient balance, core strength and cardio fitness to ride a horse with the necessary impulsion and engagement at these levels.
  • You need a coach who can teach you and a trainer who can either train your greener horse up the levels as you progress, or keep your schoolmaster straight, sound, forward, happy, and tolerant of an unskilled rider. Ideally the coach / trainer are the same people.
  • It takes patience. An advanced beginner can’t sit on a Third Level horse and suddenly ride at Third Level. With a good coach / trainer, plan on moving up a level per year.

I think people also need to re-think their definition of schoolmaster. An FEI horse is not going to be easy for an advanced beginner to ride. As beginners we lack the balance, strength and finesse to give clear aids and to avoid unnecessary movements (ask me how I know lol). The smallest changes in position mean something to these horses - it takes a very exceptional temperament for one to tolerate novice riding.

If you are an advanced beginner - so maybe working at Training Level - I’d look for an older, very well-schooled and tolerant horse that has competed through Second or Third to learn on for an couple of years. Once you have a truly independent seat and hands, can sit bigger moving gaits, and have a good understanding of lateral work and adjustability within the gaits and the frame of the horse, then would be the time to look for a schoolmaster with miles at higher levels.

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#12

I whole heartedly agree with this - an advanced beginner is definitely below most FEI-horses’ paygrade, and only the rare perfect angel will be willing to patiently teach you. (Depending on how brave you are, you could find one that is willing to impatiently teach you!)

I also agree with BigMama’s suggestion of a third level horse. One of the hardest things for a beginner/green/novice rider (even one that rides second level dressage) to teach is the changes. Getting a horse with a confirmed change will make everyone’s life easier, and by the time you are third level, the rest of it is mostly just more collection and more control of the gaits - the “tricks” (i.e., movements) are all derivatives of something else the horse knows at that point (e.g., canter pirouettes are derivatives of the collected canter and walk pirouette, the shoulder-ins in PSG are just more collected shoulder-ins, etc.).

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#13

I have one of the rare horses who is willing to patiently teach someone the ropes. He’s only 8 this year, as well. The thing with an upper level horse though is they generally do not get to the upper levels because they don’t really like that work - mine is a completely different horse when asked to ‘think upper level’ versus teach someone the second level. If I am teaching someone on him (very rare) then I have to really think about how to get that person to really ride beyond their understanding to get the most learning out of him, otherwise he will kind of half-ass the movement and it’s there, but it’s not really GOOD, if you understand what I’m saying. It’s an interesting dichotomy really.

#14

Not all schoolmasters are created equally. In the end it’s still the disposition and temperament I think that makes or breaks you. My daughter was gifted the horse that helped me earn my bronze medal. He was retired/stepped down once we reached that goal and taught her the ropes for showing in addition to giving her a very safe start in dressage. She was then gifted my horse that helped me earn my silver. Again, he provided her with an education that took me decades to build on my own (on multiple horses with multiple instructors/clinicians/etc) in just a few short years. She earned her bronze on my former stallion who I had ridden through fourth level shortly after that. As long as they have a willing and forgiving attitude for mistakes, an educated, experienced horse successful at levels above what you’re riding will make your experience easier. That does not mean you don’t have to put in the work to develop your own skills, however. :wink:

#15

Thank you for all your comments and answers. So I guess I have even more stuff to consider before actually buying a horse.

And regarding the “Should a beginner really ride an FEI horse”-Question: I am already lucky to have ridden a couple of very nice and talented horses a couple of times, some even with an international show record. So I have ridden half passes, flying changes etc. before, but I still have quite a bit to improve on my seat and my aids. I guess, I am a prime example of: “Even if you can do fancy tricks on a school master, that doesn’t mean, that you can also do it on a younger horse”

I would just love to learn all those basics from a horse that actually knows his job. I still remember the first time, I managed to ride a leg yield correctly. It was on a fourth level horse that I rode for the first and unfortunately last time. I think, in general, it is just way easier to ride “the right way” if you have a horse that responds to the lightest aids.

#16

You can get there in six months or never. The joys of horses!

Speaking in gross generalizations (JMHO)
Four big facets of any horse: physical soundness, athleticism, mind, quality of training
Four big facets of any rider: physical soundness, athleticism, mind/grit, access to training

At one end of the spectrum you have a horse that is sound with a lot of maintenance, 5/10 gaits, a tricky and reactive mind, who can get through a 4th level test when ridden very precisely. This horse is paired with a rider who has normal aches and pains, desk jockey level of fitness, is easily overwhelmed, and can only lesson once a month. The odds of this rider scoring a 60+ at 4th level is slim and will be an uphill battle mostly because of the horses mind and lack of access to training.

At the other end of the spectrum is a spotlessly sound horse with 8/10 gaits, a workmanlike and bombproof mind who finds the grand prix work easy. This horse is paired with a physically sound rider with a high level of both fitness and flexibility, brave with lots of grit, and is in 5 day a week training. This pair could go from 1st to 4th level in a season with scores well into the 60s. I know riders who have access to international quality schoolmasters and receive multiple lessons a day. They went from 1st/2nd to FEI in 2-3 years and are scoring in the high 60s to low 70s at Wellington.

If I had to pick the one non-negotiable it is the mind. Find a schoolmaster who doesn’t mind mistakes and has a forgiving nature. With access to regular training progress can be much quicker than a more athletic horse who has a short fuse or gets flustered with incorrect aids. An 8 mover with a phenomenal mind and a FEI record is typically the price of a nice house but a 6 mover can be much more affordable.

1 Like
#17

I guess I am in a good position then. I am not really into competing, so I would be perfectly happy with a horse that only moves for a 6. I really just want to build a solid foundation for my riding and I want to be able to ride through a fourth level test on day without any bigger problems. I actually keep thinking that the biggest limiting factor at the moment is my own physical condition. I should definitely start working out more regularly :slight_smile:

#18

My new schoolmaster requires way more stamina and core strength from me. I’ve had to incorporate pilates type exercises daily, just to keep up. He’s forgiving but opinionated and will tell on me when I’m incorrect.
Slowly learning to be quite and efficient with a lot less fiddling… is hard. I just can’t get away with being sloppy or lazy, he’s all business in the sand.

Hacking out is our fun down time, with fewer expectations.

#19

Oh boy. I have a coming 17 PSG/I1 guy who I am thinking about transitioning to a half lease schoolmaster. I do a lot of hill work with him, wtc to keep his fitness up, and honestly, he is so fit he gets explosive because that is his fun gallop time. Not so much for mom… may need to work on that before anyone else tries him.

#20

No kidding! It literally took me a year to build up the core strength, seat and stamina to ride my lovely mare at Third Level. And then we lost her very suddenly and I rode only once a week or so for a couple of months. ALL that fitness apparently disappeared in those weeks and I feel like I’m startling from scratch with my new schoolmaster. I can sit his trot, or I can steer / do lateral work, but not at the same time. And my trainer had to turn down her headset because of my panting lol

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