Huge revelation over the weekend that might explain why our horses can be fruitloops - we are feeding too much grain! I am embarrassed to tell you how much. I would so appreciate learning how much grain or pellets others feed. Our horses are 16.3 - 17 h - big boned horses (like their owners:) ) and in moderate work - ridden 5 -6 days a week and competing low level eventing.
Well, as much as it takes 
The bigger key, over how much, is what kind. 5lb of high sugar grains can have a bigger impact on “stupid energy” than 10lb of a low sugar grain.
Big horses in moderate+ work might need 10+lb of grain to maintain body condition. But even at that size if I see one is getting 15lb and still lean, I start to think that something else is going on - ulcers, worms, high sugar feed, poor quality forage, etc. It’s not always that way, but IME often it is.
This year I finally weighed Red’s grain that he has been getting.
He was getting about 1/2 pound a day. Yup, only half a pound!! I never bothered to weigh my scooper so I was kinda surprised it was that litt.e
I feed Omolene 200, mostly so that I have something to mix his T.H.E. supplement with. He wasn’t firing consistently on his barrel pattern so I slowly increased him to about 1 1/2 pounds (and then he got hurt…) but even with that small increase I did notice a big difference in his energy. Next year, I’ll have to continue with the grain increase and it did seem to give him that extra “pep” that I need for his runs.
He’s an easy keeper so that’s why I’ve never given him much grain in the past. It blows my mind when I hear people say their horse gets 10 pounds of grain or more. Personally, I think it’s more important for them to have good forage and then supplement with grain if you need to for various reasons.
If you’re looking at that little grain, and with an easy keeper, I would much rather see you go with a ration balancer - 1lb will be chock full of nutrition that 4-6lb of most regular fortified grains provide.
Yes, getting free choice good quality forage is the first thing that should be taken care of. But the fact is that some horses either have a high enough energy requirement by their nature, or they are working hard enough that they require 10lb or so of grain on top of good forage.
At some point a horse just can’t, or won’t eat more hay or grass.
So interesting. We have had our horses at home for years so you would think we would know a thing or two! We feed Purina Strategy Healthy Edge - a 12.5% protein - but waaay to much quantity wise . No wonder they were bottle rockets at shows. The party’s over boys.
My air fern gets a handful of grain to go with her ration balancer. That’s it. This is a moving target though. It all depends on you horse: how much work they’re doing, what their metabolism or special needs are, what their BCS is, etc.
For me, with an IR mare on very little pasture, she gets hay, the ration balance stuff (Platinum Performance for us) and a pittance of low NSC pelleted feed just to make her think she’s getting something.
I’ve had other horses who needed a couple of lbs of high protein/fat feed plus oil to keep a good weight.
It’s something you have to play with based on your horse. But it’s always best to keep them on the thinner side than fat. Fat=all sorts of other issues. And suger? OMG. I used to feed a low NSC to my athletic mare. The barn for whatever reason, stopped feeding her what I was providing and was just giving her their “stock” sweet feed. She was NUTS. When I figured it out, I was relieved. I thought my horse was losing her mind. LOL
[QUOTE=Gryhrs;8315390]
So interesting. We have had our horses at home for years so you would think we would know a thing or two! We feed Purina Strategy Healthy Edge - a 12.5% protein - but waaay to much quantity wise . No wonder they were bottle rockets at shows. The party’s over boys.[/QUOTE]
How much are you feeding? 12.5% protein doesn’t have anything to do with it Protein doesn’t make a horse hot. If they weren’t fat, they weren’t getting too much. It’s not the lowest NSC grain, so it may be these guys simply need a lower NSC product.
I have 2 Morgans in work 4 - 5 days a week, probably be considered light work. > They aren’t easy keepers, per se, more like normal keepers. In addition to their local grass, they get 1 lb of Safe Choice Perform and 1 lb of alfalfa pellets. Depending on weight, their grain and pellets can go up or down 1/2 lb. Seems silly, but it makes a big difference.
I replaced grain with a low NSC concentrate years ago. Even the ottbs get a low NSC roughage based concentrate instead of grain, and they do very well on it. My go-to concentrate is Triple Crown Senior, and I will feed 9 - 12 lbs a day in three feedings until the horse reaches the desired body condition. Then I bump it back to 6-9 lbs a day until they go back to the track. Plus all the hay/pasture they can eat.
My personal riding horses get all the hay/pasture they can eat plus 1/2 - 2 lbs of ration balancer a day, and I feed Triple Crown 30%.
They all get about 1/2 cup ground flax a day plus MSM. The fatties get Quiessence.
Here is a link to Triple Crown’s NSC values
https://www.triplecrownfeed.com/articles/horse-food-carbohydrate-values-triple-crown-horsefood/
My high-maintenance 16.2 TB is on about ~9 lbs/day of Seminole Wellness Senior - he’s only 15, but it’s a super feed. I’ll probably increase to upwards of 10 lbs once fall sets in. On the flip side, my air fern 16h-on-her-tiptoes TB mare gets 2 cups of Seminole Equalizer mixed with 2 cups of beet pulp twice a day.
If your horses aren’t overweight on “too much” of the Strategy and excess energy is your only issue, the problem may be quality rather than quantity. It will be interesting to see if they lose weight with a dramatic feed reduction.
But don’t feel too dumb. 
I remember my first day as a working student with an upper level eventer. I told her how much my 15.2h off the track QH was eating (something along the lines of 8 quarts of cheap sweet feed a day, plus beet pulp) and her exact words were “And you wonder why you have hyper problems?” :lol:
16 hand horse, easy keeper, moderate work (out every day for about an hour, mostly walk/trot). She gets 15 pounds of good quality grass hay in the summer; any more and she gets obese. Grain is between one half pound and one pound of whole oats, 12 ounces of alfalfa cubes, salt, and a tablespoon of complete vitamin/mineral/lysine etc supplement soaked into a mash, once a day.
If she doesn’t get any grain, she’s a bit dopey under saddle. If she starts to seem a bit lethargic, I boost the oats a bit, but have never fed more than 1.5 pounds per day.
I like feeding the supplement as I can vary the amount of grain without affecting the level of vitamins/minerals. Our local hay is low in minerals, and I think she does better with a bit of a boost to her protein levels, particularly making sure she has the limiting amino acids.
I don’t feed any grain at all, to three big WB’s and a Friesian. They have access to pasture in the spring/summer/fall for at least 8 hours per day (depending on the season and the daylight), free choice grass hay (analyzed yearly), and they get a ration balancer. One of them is my retired GP horse, who’s not working at all now, two are DWB’s working at Fourth Level, and the Friesian is working at the small tour level. They all stay just about right, they’re rideable, they feel great, and I don’t have ulcer issues, even though at one time they were all competing, and now three of them compete regularly.
[QUOTE=Gryhrs;8315390]
So interesting. We have had our horses at home for years so you would think we would know a thing or two! We feed Purina Strategy Healthy Edge - a 12.5% protein - but waaay to much quantity wise . No wonder they were bottle rockets at shows. The party’s over boys.[/QUOTE]
I have always thought ,since finding COTH, that some people way over feed grain, pellets, supplements etc… I have also never heard of so many horses with ulcers, colics, stomach issues etc… In some of the cases high grain consumption is probably the cause. Horses are not meant to eat that way.
It seems to be a trend in boarding since now barns feed ( not individual owners) everything. Makes it convenient for the owner, but it isn’t the right way to go.
I feed a cup per horse. It keeps them coming when I call them in and they like it. Brood mares and lactating mares got much more than that, of course.
[QUOTE=Scaramouch;8315686]
But don’t feel too dumb. I remember my first day as a working student with an upper level eventer. I told her how much my 15.2h off the track QH was eating (something along the lines of 8 quarts of cheap sweet feed a day, plus beet pulp) and her exact words were “And you wonder why you have hyper problems?” :lol:[/QUOTE]
You are so kind to make me feel less like a horrible mother:) OK - I will fess up… then put my flame suit on. They were getting 14 pounds a day in addition to the all you can eat hay bar.
OP- what amount of work are you horses doing (duration and type) and what is their body condition score?
14 lbs. a day can be a large amount, depending on what the horse is doing. Hard riding 5 days a week, a broodmare in heavy lactation are situations that demand more calories. Rather than looking for a lower protein feed, I would look for one with a lower NSC and higher fat. More calories per pound with less tendency to make a horse hot.
The most I’ve ever fed was probably around 15lbs/day to my 16.2 thoroughbred whose ideal weight is about 1200lbs. Once I got him to his ideal weight, I was able to maintain on less than that. He might get bumped up to 12lbs a day over the winter. He’s 23 years old, and in my experience, TBs are just a whole different animal when it comes to feeding. I’ve fostered starving rescues and gone through re-feeding them, and have found that some thoroughbreds are just the equivalent of teenaged boys when it comes to eating and metabolism. Not all, but many.
In perspective though, 15lbs of grain is still only 1.25% of his body weight. Of course this does not include his hay intake, but as with many TBs, he has an upper limit of hay that he will consume, regardless of quality or quantity offered to him. For some horses it’s just necessary to get the calories in.
The rest of my herd could maintain on a ration balancer and hay but the TB would shrivel up and die.
Right now he’s on a 14% protein pellet, but I will at times bump him up to a 16% or even top dress with the ration balancer which is around 30% or so I think. Protein makes no difference to him. He’s a nut job on 10% or 30% LOL. I feed what he needs to maintain topline and muscling, good weight/coat and look and feel good.
How can you find the NSC on a feed? I don’t see it listed. Cutter99- Our boys are ridden on average 45 mins - moderately - trotting, cantering, jumping 5 - 6 days a week.
Does anyone feed shredded beet pulp? I have heard it keeps weight on without making horses hot. How much to feed and how?
It all depends on the horse.
My 16.2h air fern in light work is fed a handful of ration balancer (not even the recommended amount) and wears a muzzle.
My 15.2h pasture pet eats 10-12 lbs of a low NSC/high fat fortified feed every day and all the pasture/hay she can eat. She gets way more than the recommended amount for her size and lack of work, but that’s what she needs to maintain condition.
[QUOTE=Gryhrs;8315802]
How can you find the NSC on a feed? I don’t see it listed. Cutter99- Our boys are ridden on average 45 mins - moderately - trotting, cantering, jumping 5 - 6 days a week.
Does anyone feed shredded beet pulp? I have heard it keeps weight on without making horses hot. How much to feed and how?[/QUOTE]
You won’t see the NSC on most feed bags. A few ways you can determine it:
-In its most basic definition, the non-structural carbohydrates are the total sugars and starches. If they list sugars and starches on the feed tag, you can add the two numbers for a good estimate of the NSC.
-Google is your friend. If you google your feed and “NSC,” you will almost always find it somewhere. Just be smart about the sources.
-If all else fails, call or email the feed company.
Shredded beet pulp is indeed low in sugars and starches and can be used as a calorie source for horses who need more calories but not the energy. However, it also has a low density, meaning a small amount takes up a lot of space. One pound of beet pulp is about 1100-1200 calories, which is very close to many fortified feeds. However, one pound of beet pulp will expand considerably after being soaked and easily occupy triple the volume of one pound of fortified feed. Depending on how many calories you’re looking to add/replace with the beet pulp, it may or may not be the best solution.
Personally, I prefer using good hay for extra calories first. If that can’t be done, pelleted forage (alfalfa pellets, timothy pellets) and fat sources (rice bran, oils, other fat supplements) are my next choice for additional calories.
I feed 9 pounds of oats a day split into 3 feedings plus unlimited TA hay. Horses are 16-17 hands, dressage and light combined training.
A few companies have started putting NSC on their websites. Triple Crown, Southern States, and Nutrena are 3 I know off the top of my head. It’s listed as either NSC straight out, or has WSC + starch listed (the combo is NSC). I want to say Seminole has the information there too but won’t swear to it.
Otherwise yes, just google something like “purina omelene 300 nsc” and you’ll find references somewhere from someone who’s actually called and asked what those numbers are.
