It is difficult to determine when your horse is fully mature. Research has generally demonstrated that the larger the horse, the longer the maturity. And there are also data demonstrating that in a study comparing growth rates of
TBs to Hanoverians, The latter matured later than the former, on average.
Here is so food for thought:
http://www.theequineindependent.com/?p=415
Of course there are always exceptions.
When I say " Jumping" I don’t mean anything complicated. No technical courses. Very few competitions or evaluations and only over simple straightforward courses. But they see jumps and can navigate a simple course so it can be decided around age 5 if they are suitable to put a lot of time and training into or they’ll top out below 4’ and go to a sales yard or wherever…
Dont know how many have worked with these right off the plane but…it’s obvious they have not been over schooled. They can jump, they have a lead change but not a whole lot of adjustability and the ones I hacked were clueless about outside rein, among other things. But they’d go to a jump easily to a suitable spot mostly on their own (unless there were flower boxes :lol:).
Micheal Jung and the like have the luxury of extremely talented horses they know they are going to find sponsors for and keep. But I’d bet before they were in his barn, they learned to jump a simple course for evaluation purposes if they came from an outside source.
There’s bad, anything to get them sold trainers over there, of course. Some horses NQR from the git go too. Not what I am referring to. Sensible folk can jump a full 5 year old at over 2’6" with sensible management. In many if not most cases.
I’ve taken horses to starter trials at the level the OP is talking who have only jumped 2 times…and we walked over some of the jumps.
You do not have to be in a heavy jumping training program at that point…
And yes, I’ve taken few 4 year old BN…even one novice…without a lot of jumping…their steering was a bit iffy…but some horses are naturally brave and do not need a lot of schooling to do those levels…especially as you can still trot and make time. Most trotted a few fences xc and stadium.
I had a 5 year old do ONE Prelim this year…she also did a training level after. She did a total of 5 events for the entire year. She was also not jumped a ton. She didn’t do more because of her age and she just didn’t need too…but enough to help get her sold without putting her long time soundness at risk.
I’m with BFNE on this topic. I’d rather jump much less often the 4/5yo years than drill over small stuff (short schools once or twice per month is enough). My old gelding (super clever) jumped maybe 10 times total before running his first Novice 2mo short of his 5th birthday. My mare, on the other hand, wasn’t brave and needed almost 2yrs of 2x/mo jump schools to be ready for BN. My youngsters also work in 6wk batches their 4yo and 5yo years (6 weeks of light work followed by 6 weeks of vacation) to ensure they have time to mentally and physically absorb the training expectations.
While I don’t ever want to over-face my horses on the flat or over fences, I also don’t want them to think their job is something very small or easy if I want them to eventually move up the levels (my mare progressed from 1st to PSG in 24mo using the work/vacation model). I want my ponies thinking about and asking to do the next thing. My current baby (3yo), for example, will already jump logs, ditches, and banks in-hand and when ponied (a necessary skill when ponying on mountain trails!). When the time comes to start riding him over obstacles, he likely won’t see anything smaller than 2’ or 2’6" when learning how to use himself with me up there because he’s already proven himself to be both clever (physical) and a happy (mental) to try new things.
It’s definitely a fine line between allowing progress as their brains and bodies allow, but not pushing them beyond their physical limits (and every horse is unique).
OP, it sounds like you are doing great with your young horse.
I do think that there is no point in pushing young horses to jump higher just to jump higher. Heck, there is so SO much to learn, simply cantering over poles on the ground. We spend years developing strength, straightness, balance, etc etc and this can be done over 18" cross rails. Heck, I use to school my 2* horse over 18" jumps most of the time. And much of this work involves no jumps at all. If a young horse is not balance, forward and through, then work on that and not on running about jumping bigger and bigger fences. I get that sales barns have to do this in order for customers to evaluate scope. But if your horse is not for sale, why on earth do you need to jump the bigger fences?
It is NOT about the jump. It is about what happens before and after the jumps. Why focus on moving a 4-5 year old up to training and prelim when there is so much to accomplish that does NOT involve height?
My trainer is very much of this ilk and has encouraged me to stay at novice with a very talented young horse. The plan is to be at prelim when he is 7 (next fall), as long as we have accomplished “perfection” between the jumps 
and then a 1* at age 8. I have videos of this horse as a THREE YEAR OLD jumping around 4’ fences in Ireland. But he arrived here basically unbroke on the flat. It takes a lot more than 1-2 years to really train a horse on the flat to the point that they are truly ready to gallop around a prelim course. Some of the big pros can fake it and get around… this little pro here has not the talent nor the need to do that.
I got my 4YO in January (now 5) and so far we have taken her out schooling as often as we can but have been sticking mostly to things like ditches, water, and banks as those are all things expected at Pre Training (BN equivalent in New Zealand) to get them out of the way and so they become normal/no big deal.
She has also done a few SJ comps on nice footing up to 90cm but as others have said we barely actually school and from what I have been told it is the number of jumps rather than the height that makes a difference.
Give that your big boy can basically step over the jumps I would not worry too much about jumping a bit bigger but less frequently.
I think horses should be exposed to jumping around 4 just to see what they think of it, maybe on a lounge or in a chute, but not “worked over fences” until 6 or so.
I would be hesitant to buy a horse at 5 that has not done anything over fences, but recently I saw an ad for a 6 year old Holsteiner that was advertised as a “novice level packer” which I found somewhat appalling.
The only reason I see in pushing things is if you are going to sell the horse though and want to be able to say he has seen/done stuff over fences. If the horse is yours for a long time, I’d not push it. Less vet bills later.
[QUOTE=Ruth0552;8417396]
Give that your big boy can basically step over the jumps I would not worry too much about jumping a bit bigger but less frequently.
I think horses should be exposed to jumping around 4 just to see what they think of it, maybe on a lounge or in a chute, but not “worked over fences” until 6 or so.
I would be hesitant to buy a horse at 5 that has not done anything over fences, but recently I saw an ad for a 6 year old Holsteiner that was advertised as a “novice level packer” which I found somewhat appalling.
The only reason I see in pushing things is if you are going to sell the horse though and want to be able to say he has seen/done stuff over fences. If the horse is yours for a long time, I’d not push it. Less vet bills later.[/QUOTE]
I think some people have a misconception as to what it takes to be a novice packer. Some horses can be that after one maybe two outings. Honestly, if they are naturally bold and well started on the flat, they can be a packer at that level from the start.
So a 6 year old advertised as a novice packer may not have been pounded on to get that way…but what flags do go up for me is that he is probably not that scopey of a jumper or something is limiting him to the lower levels. Which may be just fine depending on a person’s goals.
For your 5 yr old, how about taking him hilltopping with a local hunt or riding with a local trails group? Seems like he is developing the skills to compete so giving him experiences with traveling and riding with a lot of strange horses (and hounds!) will help him in future competitions.
I bought a 6 yr old this spring. She came from a barn that produces young jumpers, and had competed in the five-year-olds (1.20m) in Kentucky and Florida before I bought her. While I agree that over-jumping is bad, show jumpers start their horses very young, and have done solid 1.40m courses by the time they are 7. Those horses continue to compete at the highest levels until their late teens. I doubt jumping 3’ and under once per week will be bad for your horse.
You’re a CANTER volunteer and have a warmblood? How did you not end up with an OTTB ??? :winkgrin:
My 5 year old WB was ridden 4- 5 days a week this summer, jumped once a week, hacked out 2 days and dressage the other 2. He was schooling up to 3’3 at home and did a total of 1 BN and 7 novice HT , this year,none when the ground was hard. If he competed that weekend, he did not jump during the week. Schooling sessions were no more than 15 or so jumps, mostly gymnastics ,on good footing. Footing and number of jumps should be the concern, more so than anything. Now he’s got his shoes pulled and he’s getting a vacation . He’s 16.3( and still growing), so I actually have taken things a little slower .
[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;8417428]
I think some people have a misconception as to what it takes to be a novice packer. Some horses can be that after one maybe two outings. Honestly, if they are naturally bold and well started on the flat, they can be a packer at that level from the start.
So a 6 year old advertised as a novice packer may not have been pounded on to get that way…but what flags do go up for me is that he is probably not that scopey of a jumper or something is limiting him to the lower levels. Which may be just fine depending on a person’s goals.[/QUOTE]
Personally, I would not consider a horse that has been around Novice twice to be a packer. I did double check the ad to see what else it said and it turns out I was wrong- the ad says “Preliminary Packer” ready to move up to Intermediate, and perfect for a young rider. Also says she did a whole year worth of Preliminary. Now, I’m not in the market for that horse or any other horse with that price tag (40K) but if I was I would pass on that one.
[QUOTE=2LaZ2race;8418105]
You’re a CANTER volunteer and have a warmblood? How did you not end up with an OTTB ??? :winkgrin:[/QUOTE]
Lol, I am kind of a delinquent CANTER volunteer; I haven’t been very active the past couple of years. I was initially looking specifically for a tb, because I had retired mine and missed having one. But that’s not what I ended up with!
[QUOTE=FatDinah;8418014]
For your 5 yr old, how about taking him hilltopping with a local hunt or riding with a local trails group? Seems like he is developing the skills to compete so giving him experiences with traveling and riding with a lot of strange horses (and hounds!) will help him in future competitions.[/QUOTE]
I do plan on hilltopping him eventually, but he seems to be going through an adolescent stage right now and I think it would be sensory overload for him! Although since the small farmers pack I hunt with leaves practically outside my door I may walk him over there sometime just to let him see all the action (and then rush home and jump on my hunt horse).
[QUOTE=Ruth0552;8418253]
Personally, I would not consider a horse that has been around Novice twice to be a packer. I did double check the ad to see what else it said and it turns out I was wrong- the ad says “Preliminary Packer” ready to move up to Intermediate, and perfect for a young rider. Also says she did a whole year worth of Preliminary. Now, I’m not in the market for that horse or any other horse with that price tag (40K) but if I was I would pass on that one.[/QUOTE]
well that is where we differ in opinion. To me a packer is a point and shoot ride REGARDLESS of number of rides. If they can pack a less than perfect rider around all three phase and easily jump the jumps…that is a packer. If they need an aggressive or a perfect ride of any of the phases or elements…then they are not a packer. Novice is just not that complicated and if a horse is easy…they can pack around at that level pretty damn quickly depending on the horses temperament. A packer is a horse with a generous temperament who tolerates a less than perfect ride. But no horse will tolerate crappy riding forever.
I will say that now a days…if you are selling a horse with potential for the ULs…yes, most buyers in that market will expect them to be going Prelim and done a 1* as a 6 year old…and many will have done a few prelims as 5 year olds. 40K is on the low end for a YR horse.
But a horse with an experienced rider can typically get to those levels without a lot of pounding. I see more lower level horses drilled on and over jumped often because their RIDER needs more schooling.
Wow, you WB people have the patients of a saint. Having to wait until they are at least 5 to start jumping 18" on a regular bases would drive me stir crazy. A lot of years of “dreaming”.
I’ll stick with TBs. Lots have already run and some have won the Maryland Hunt Cup by 7-8. 4 miles 22 fences some as high as 4-10 uphill. And the retired ones are hunting well into their early 20s.
We pop our 2 year olds over some logs from time to time. As to TB growth rate. I have never seen mine change much if at all after 5.
Gumtree, I don’t know very many WB people who actually do that. Most pro programs start them at three and have them jumping around at 4. young jumpers end their 5 year old year doing 3’9 courses. This super slow program, some might prefer it but it is “off track” for sure and not typical. Good flatwork, adjustability and rideability are key. Straight and forward and responsive to the leg. Then the jumps become easy and you don’t have to jump that often or that big to get the job done in the ring. Or the field, or wherever you want to jump.
fordtraktor, this may seem like a “super slow” program to you but it is one that I learned overf 40 years ago from some of the “greats.” I remember taking 3-4 year olds out and doing only cross pole divisions and then when flying changes were confirmed and they were round, balanced, and straight, we’d enter them in the green divisions for two years.
And as for a young horse being a novice packer after only a couple of events? Let’s see how long that will last once the horse is ridden regularly by a rider who requires a novice packer. hmmm…
[QUOTE=Winding Down;8418788]
And as for a young horse being a novice packer after only a couple of events? Let’s see how long that will last once the horse is ridden regularly by a rider who requires a novice packer. hmmm…[/QUOTE]
well I have known those horses. Generous natured. And just because someone needs or wants a packer doesn’t mean they are a crappy rider.
And NO horse, no matter the age or experience stays the same when ridden badly for a long time. That is why a good school horse is worth their weight in gold but still needs tuning rides once in a while.
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