How much jumping for a 5 YO warmblood cross?

I am thinking about next year and what my then 5 YO will be doing. This year he has been to some schooling dressage shows and he did 2 starter HTs at elementary (18") with my trainer. We XC schooled several times; mostly at pre-BN heights but he did do a few BN level jumps.

I took him to a dressage clinic last week; my dressage trainer rode him. The clinician mentioned that she would not jump him very much since he still has a lot of filling out to do. Which is hopefully true, since, although he has filled out a lot since I got him in early Spring, he is still quite narrow.

So the plan is to wait and see where he is in the Spring, maturity-wise, and also to see what my vet has to say when she sees him for Spring vacs.

I am just curious as to what others have/are doing with their 5 YOs, especially warmbloods/crosses (knowing of course it depends on the individual horse). I don’t want to push him–I want to do what’s best for him. And there is no downside to going too slow.

Thanks!

The last time I was working with someone and doing the riding on her young WBs, we kept the jumping to a minimum until 6/7 years old. No more than once a week, and at low heights. If we were getting ready to show, then the few weeks beforehand we ramped up and practiced over fences more frequently. She was always concerned about their knees and other joints getting too much action on them before they were closed.

It never seemed to slow us down at shows, and her horses stayed sound long into their twenties, so it seems to be a good practice.

I always did similar to Kashmere.

I would generally start pole work in their 5th year and baby jumping in their 6th.

Well, in the Young Jumpers they jump “1.10m to maximum 1.15m until July 1st; from July 1st 1.15m to maximum 1.20m. First fence and ‘A’ of combinations to be set 5cm lower than course height.”

I don’t think some low jumps are going to do any harm, myself. I tend to jump my young horses over 3-4 small jumps a day for the first month or so, then once a week. Lots of poles. Small, small, small, but gymnastics and flatwork, then a few bigger schools before shows. If you do your homework the height will be there for you.

My current horse I got late and since I’m old and eventing I haven’t pushed him, but the last horse I developed “on track” was coursing 3’6 at shows at 5, and spent many years jumping 4’6, and jumped around 3’6 until he was in his late teens so it didn’t do him any harm. He’s had some maintenance issues over the last 20 years but given his conformation and the miles he’s had, he did pretty well. Don’t jump high very often when you practice, in the off season, give them breaks and pay attention to fitness.

I’m not sure if a jumper schedule is necessary for an event horse but “poles in their fifth year” is a bit slow. Unnecessarily so, IMO.

I don’t think that the schedule kashmere posted of jumping once a week is one that is reserved for a young horse, my trainer has never let me seriously school my jumpers more than once a week! if you can honestly keep your horse to a few jumps a day that’s a legit alternative and I’ve had horses that fit up better that way, but you have to keep the number to a handful and not be the “just one more” type. Like, count on one hand jumps per day. when I posted above that I do a few jumps per day at first that’s what I mean, at the end of each ride I hop 3-4 crossrails or 2’ verticals, just to make jumping a “normal” occurrence. I do the same thing if a horse starts to get rushy, in the middle of a ride, then go back to trotting flatwork.

Sounds like the trainer is in a hurry. Warmbloods are known for maturing late, as are draft breeds. I am surprised to see a 4 year old being asked to do so much jumping. The dressage clinician gave you good advice – let the horse grow for a couple of years. Why push a nice young horse if you don’t have to?

When I bred warmbloods, it really did take them 6 years to finish growing. Fjords are the same way – it is amazing what a difference it between a 4 year old and a 6 year old.

Why not do dressage and trail riding next year> Let him hilltop, get him out to clinics and shows. Don’t push the jumping. You’re likely to have a sounder and healthier horse is you can wait.

Thanks all! IF, I think that is pretty much the plan. I don’t think asking him to jump 18" was really pushing him, at least according to most people I’ve talked to (well, except when he was jumping them like they were 3’!) And most of the XC was just getting him out and about; the majority of it my trainer was just coaching off of him. And he showed so much improvement in his behavior!

I have been mostly hacking him at home. Hilltopping is probably asking too much of him at this point. Someone asked me if I was planning to make him a fox hunter, like my other horse, and I said not for a while if ever! He still has plenty of the 4 YO naughties!

A 5 year old? While I wouldn’t over train or show…mine arr jumping a couple times a week, lots of hacking. And some eventing. I don’t believe in jumping lots of small jumps or running around a ton of events at a low level. At 5 most have done/will do a few training level events over the course of the year. If those were easy, they might run one or two Prelims during the year…this is with a pro rider who doesn’t need to over school or compete a ton. But it really depends on the horse. I had one who was just mentally immature and he did one novice toward the end of the year.

Honestly…doing lots of circles and drilling flat work is harder on them then jumping. And for an athletic horse, jumping 3’6" is not a big jump. Most important is doing a lot of long slow work out of the ring slowly building a good base on them. Over doing anything is what you want to avoid.

I honestly don’t feel keeping it at 2’6" and below is stressing a horse at all. Keeping it low key and easy and adding it to your flat work shouldn’t stress his joints. Doing hard work on the flat is just as stressful for them. Plenty of WB’s are going by 6. No your horse doesn’t need to be jumping 3’6" courses by then but working on being straight, pace etc are such good things to be doing while they are younger and the jumps are small.

Well, in Europe, home of the WB, a FULL 5 year old will be jumping fences, height depending on the horse, up to 3’6". NBD…but they don’t get pounded or dragged to multiple competitions.

Then they sell them to us, with most lasting quite well, because we can’t find comparable over here. Its been the case over in H/J land for years, seeing it more now in Eventing. Low mileage but further along in training can be done.

Fully expect this opinion will not be popular with some. That’s fine.

[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;8406485]
A 5 year old? While I wouldn’t over train or show…mine arr jumping a couple times a week, lots of hacking. And some eventing. I don’t believe in jumping lots of small jumps or running around a ton of events at a low level. At 5 most have done/will do a few training level events over the course of the year. If those were easy, they might run one or two Prelims during the year. But it really depends on the horse. I had one who was just mentally immature and he did one novice toward the end of the year.

Honestly…doing lots of circles and drilling flat work is harder on them then jumping. And for an athletic horse, jumping 3’6" is not a big jump. Most important is doing a lot of long slow work out of the ring slowly building a good base on them.[/QUOTE]

This. my last jumper was jumping around 3’6 courses at 5, no problem. But – at five shows a year, and at home maybe another three or four times. and a few gymnastics. The rest of the time, littler stuff. In October I took him to a bigger show and he had to do 4’ in the jumpoff; he’d never jumped that big in his life. But we just went in and did it. Clear. He didn’t jump that big again he was 6. Five or six jumps didn’t hurt him.

He did 4’6 regularly for about a decade, 3’6 until his late teens and despite a few maintenance issues over the years and a bout with laminitis this spring, I think he’s about ready to be ridden lightly again. He’s in his twenties. Pretty good run of it for a heavy-built Appendix QH on little feet who has some conformational problems that do not bode well for soundness. And Navicular problems. Would he be sound if I hadn’t jumped him at five? not if he’d started all the rest of his career at six. And I doubt he’d be sounder if he’d done nothing at all because most of his issues come from his darn navicular and that seems to go bad regularly on horses without much of a job at all.

Doesn’t really hurt anything to go slow but no jumping at 5 is a bit overcautious, IME. Kashmere’s schedule is appropriate for any horse, jumping once a week is pretty standard. And in the winter I do much less, very small stuff at most, give them a break. Lots of poles and adjustability in between. Changes of pace within the gait, straightness…so much to learn that will improve their jumping without actually jumping. And not too many circles is my standard for keeping horses sound, I learned that one working with AQHA horses as a kid. After watching too many horses ground down to nubs working on small circles it didn’t take long to realize how bad that is for them. I do few circles each way when riding, of course but my horses don’t live on a 20m like too many dressage horses seem to. And I don’t longe unless I feel unsafe getting on. When people longe for an hour then ride another hour on nothing but a small circle – those hocks are going to go, it’s a matter of time.

And walking, wherever you’ve got to do it!

[QUOTE=findeight;8406505]
Well, in Europe, home of the WB, a FULL 5 year old will be jumping fences, height depending on the horse, up to 3’6". NBD…but they don’t get pounded or dragged to multiple competitions.

Then they sell them to us, with most lasting quite well, because we can’t find comparable over here. Its been the case over in H/J land for years, seeing it more now in Eventing. Low mileage but further along in training can be done.

Fully expect this opinion will not be popular with some. That’s fine.[/QUOTE]

I agree. I also think we need to look at other factors, such as footing, terrain, and shoeing, when jumping young horses. That being said, I am NOT a proponent of running 5-6 year olds around prelim xc courses. The footing is not “controlled” and the terrain is not flat. I am eventing 5-6 year olds at Novice and below, and schooling less than 20 jumps per week. How many sessions per week seems rather irrelevant.

Wish there was some solid longitudinal research on this!

[QUOTE=Winding Down;8406525]
I agree. I also think we need to look at other factors, such as footing, terrain, and shoeing, when jumping young horses. That being said, I am NOT a proponent of running 5-6 year olds around prelim xc courses. The footing is not “controlled” and the terrain is not flat. I am eventing 5-6 year olds at Novice and below, and schooling less than 20 jumps per week. How many sessions per week seems rather irrelevant.

Wish there was some solid longitudinal research on this![/QUOTE]

I should be clear…I’ve had two who did one Prelim as 5 year olds on good courses with good footing…and less than 8 events in that year total.

In Ireland…they would have hunted as 4-5 year olds jumping and galloping through much worse footing and bigger fences than a basic prelim event.

The key factor is NOT overschooling and it really does depend on the individual horse.

A WB and a TB are also NO DIFFERENT in this. Most TBs are still growing until they are 6/7. I get sick and tired of people thinking the breed makes a difference…it doesn’t. They all basically mature at the same rate.

Thanks again, for all the different opinions. I agree that excessive ring work isn’t good. I hope the footing stays good that I can keep getting him out on hacks this winter. And BFNE, I agree no need to do a ton of elementary HTs, just getting him out to different places is the major goal with him. Besides, even starter trials are expensive, especially when you have your trainer riding!

Just a caution. From what the people say on the COTH boards, an awful lot of those young, imported WBs who have been pushed early are on hugely expensive joint maintenance programs from a relatively early age.

The US Cavalry didn’t start jumping their horses until the horses were five, and the Cavalry was focused on longevity. If the joints aren’t closed, IMO, one shouldn’t jump.

http://www.womenandhorses.com/newsletter-2006january.html

[QUOTE=vineyridge;8406959]
Just a caution. From what the people say on the COTH boards, an awful lot of those young, imported WBs who have been pushed early are on hugely expensive joint maintenance programs from a relatively early age.

The US Cavalry didn’t start jumping their horses until the horses were five, and the Cavalry was focused on longevity. If the joints aren’t closed, IMO, one shouldn’t jump.

http://www.womenandhorses.com/newsletter-2006january.html[/QUOTE]

This thread IS talking about 5 year olds. Personally…I don’t do much jumping with 4 year olds but a sales horse will do a bit…but at 5, the are typically ready to do some and they do not need much training to do few training level events.

I’ve yet started a horse over fences that is at all athletic who wasn’t easily jumping 2’6" very early on…and definitely could go training level during their first year.

I think that is the point some are making. In Europe and here…you do no have to jump 100s of jumps sub 3’ to train an athletic horse. Many I’ve known were jumping 3’ while still very green but that is still a small jump for those horses. I had one that did pretty much all his schooling work at 3’6" (he was solid 5) because anything below that he didn’t actually jump and at that height, it still wasn’t a challenge but was a comfortable height. He wasn’t eventing much at that age yet but he also wasn’t kept jumping below 2’6". It worked fine for THAT horse.

The thread is about a to be 5yo next year who has done two starter horse trials and schooled XC. That sounds to me as if he had been jumped in a program before he was five. The spinal vertebrae haven’t completely closed yet. Yes, start a horse jumping at five, but don’t push until he’s completely closed. Of course you don’t have to do hundreds of jumps, but limit them in the main to things like low gymnastics to teach him how to use his body. Maybe jump once a week. A young horse not only has to learn how to use his body but he has to learn how to use it with a rider. Those are two quite different things.

Every rule has exceptions for exceptional horses. Two mammals don’t necessarily develop at the same rate, but joint closure is pretty standard across the equine spectrum. As long as you remember that the horse is not only green but physically immature and train accordingly, things will most likely go well.

But if you are hoping that the horse will be able to stay in work for at least a decade or more without a lot of vet help, going slow is probably the best practice.

I have a hard time understanding the tizzy over jumping 4 and 5 year olds a few times a week over decent-sized jumps or showing them over 3’3. Considering how hard most of them play in turnout at that age, structured jump schools are probably easier on the body.

Yes, he has done two starter trials at 18" as a 4 YO. He is not really in a jumping program. I do not see my event trainer very much (she moved further away from me), and I rarely jump him at home; I have popped him over a couple of crossrails. He does get a dressage training ride once a week; other than that I try do 10-15 min of flat work prior to hacking to focus him–if I don’t the hacks tend to be “energetic”. He is probably only averaging 3 rides a week, including his training ride, since I rarely have time to ride both horses in a day (damn job!).

But the differences of opinion are interesting; I am definitely not planning on novice next year!

Here is his stadium round from his last horse trial to give you an idea of what he is jumping.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G54ve8TUApc

And a video from a dressage schooling show (just because).

https://youtu.be/Xv7IxuLhnSg

You all know that Michael Jung doesn’t start jumping his horses until they can lengthen and shorten on command.