How much to get a baby on the ground? 2 year old? 3 year old? Do you make any money?

[Flying_Hearts]

I have searched for info, but didn’t find much. I remember there being an in depth thread on what is costs to get a baby on the ground, and how much goes into the baby by the time it’s 1, 2, 3 years old, etc… one breeder in particular had it really broken down and included EVERYTHING - insurance, bedding, that horse’s percentage of electricity, mortgage, water, etc…

I am considering breeding two mares this year, and I am trying to figure out an estimate on what my costs will be. I may be selling both, or selling one and keeping one to be my next horse. I’m also wanting to figure out if I should keep them til they’re old enough to be ridden, showing, etc… or try to sell right away as weanlings. Which is most cost effective (barring disaster)? I do have my own farm and the ability to train them myself.

Also, I know this has been asked before but I couldn’t really find the threads. Does anyone make any money breeding? I don’t see how so many people could breed so many warmblood babies and not be making anything. It’s too much work to be just breaking even, and not feasible to be losing money every single year. I wouldn’t expect anyone to be getting rich, but I don’t think everyone could possibly afford to be losing money on every foal! I’m certainly not looking to make a fortune, but is it possible to make a little bit of money in this endeavor?

[LovesHorses]

A. Lot!

[lolita1]

Look I don’t add it up I’m an accountant … I did a small sum on what I spent last month where is the blush icon.:eek:

But to breed the mare 2k frozen semen, Vet 800.00, agistment at vet $750.00. Transport there and back $400.00.

& head in sand I don’t want to add the rest up. :lol:

[back_in_the_saddle]

And that’s only if she takes on the first try

[password]

I think the variables are too big to say. Are you using frozen semen at 2k a pop and it takes three times and does she have to stay on Regumate or anything else expensive? Are your daily costs less than somebody who has to board and foal out? Are there any issues with the new foal? You will probably make some on some of them and could lose a lot on others. The current problem, hopefully temporary, is that it costs more to produce the product than the market will bear unless it’s a superstar and/or everything goes right. It really needs to be a labor of love!

[Mkelle11]

We have a mare that’s 4 months along, and we easily have $2,500 into this, with no promises that she’ll even carry to term, or that the foal will be “worth” it.

Luckily it’s a sentimental breeding…If we’d gone into this trying to make a profit, or to try to produce a replacement mount that was cheaper than buying one (Ha!) we’d be sorely disappointed.

After the foal is on the ground, I’ve always heard an estimate of $5,000/year for care and upkeep. If we approximate another $500 for the remainder of gestation (Barring incident, the most expensive part should be over), which is probably on the low side but it makes the numbers prettier, by the time this foal is 4, it’ll be worth $23,000. Which, unless it’s really spectacular, we probably couldn’t sell it for.

I think there are a few out there that make a profit, but there are more that do not. It’s almost always a better idea to buy a young horse than try to breed one- Not only is it generally cheaper, but you know what you’re getting. With breeding, you could have $5,000 into a foal to get it on the ground, only to have it come out with three legs.

[secretariat]

Obviously, numbers will be different for different folks; we have our own detailed accounting but I’ll share the following general numbers:

1. Breeding - too variable to generalize. Run your own numbers for your own situation and selected stallion. If you’re lucky, you can do it for $3,000 ($2,000 stud fee and $1000 in vet, etc, costs). If you get a $500 stud fee and hit on live cover first try costs much less - but do you want a $500 baby?

2. Care/feeding - also extremely variable, but we est $3,000 - 5,000 a year, if no major issues, with unlimited turnout and grass. Special care (regumate, etc) obviously adds more. If you stable, adds more. Drought years add more (my hay bill was more than 25% increased in 2010 due to drought, and I spent $3000 on grass seed to resod the damaged paddocks). If out in herd (both mare and weaned baby) on good pasture, costs less if you don’t charge for the land/mowing.

So, my advice is that MINIMUM cost of putting a baby on the ground is $5,000. Then minimum “aging” cost is $3,000/yr, so heading into the 4-year old year when they’re saleable you’ve got $14,000 MINIMUM in them - which sanity checks with my seat of the pants valuation of good (not world class) quality long 3 year olds at $15,000.

Do the numbers - will you make money on an average foal? Not a chance, you’re lucky if you break even.

Why do we breed? We’re breeding for the exceptional babies, the ones we couldn’t afford to buy. History will grade our efforts.

And we breed for an even more subtle reason - we’re breeding for our own future use. We train/habituate them in our methods from day 1 - we know what we’re dealing with when we throw a leg across.

[EquusMagnificus]

I did this exercise the other day, and I figured it costs roughly 5K from conception to weaning… and that adds up to roughly 9K as a three year-old.

That is barring no injuries, no colics, no nothing. So I actually figured, for myself, 12K from conception to three years of age.

That is not including training fees, if any.

[Signature]

Pretty much no! Unless you sell as a weanling, chances are you’ll be upside down pretty soon thereafter, especially once you get to 3… and that’s counting your time as nothing, also. Especially how prices are going now, breeding is definitely for fun and really not for profit

[horsetales]

Agree with the others, more a labor of love in this economy. However, the ones I see as very successful have been at it for years maybe even multi-generational. When you see a post of I am looking for a …, what farms should I visit, those names are on everyone’s radar screen and get put out there as a suggestion. they have repeat customers and name recognition. So unless you have a client base that is likely to be buying, count on it being harder as a newbie to show a profit at the beginning

[Jumper_girl221]

$620 Insemination
$125 Shipping
$275 Regumate, plus shipping 5/20
$180 14 Day Scan and progesterone test
$100 100 day scan (my mare has a history of miscarriage so I wanted to be sure she was still in foal).
$60 Pneumabort-K shots, gave myself.
$65 270 day ultrasound
$290 12 hour checkup
$180 10 day follow up for mild heart murmur and to stitch the mare up (babeh had big shoulders)
$350 Inspections costs for foal (mare was pre-approved).

$2245 Total

My costs vet and inspection wise to get the foal on the ground. Not counting stud fee, feed/hay, farrier etc.

Foal has been on OCD pellets since 6 months as well as rejuvinaide from 1 - 6 months.

[Prime_Time_Rider]

I would say that $5,000 a year for feeding, bedding, routine vet (vaccinations) and trimming is a good ball park estimate (that is assuming you can keep dam and baby at home). Add optional expenses for training, breed inspections, and showing. I estimate that we have about $20k into our coming three year old.

[Spike]

I did the exercice in french on my blog once. Sorry folks, I won’t translate. But the rough estimation was between 6.5k to 7.5k.

[Seal_Harbor]

I talked someone out of breeding a pony mare so the mare could “earn her keep” by telling them it costs close to $10K to get them to riding age. By that time your child will be too old to show the baby, who is going to do that so you can sell it? How is adding another mouth to feed, vet bills, bedding bills, training bills, and showing costs “earning her keep”?

Pony wasn’t bred.

[Brefly22]

Horses are a rabbit hole - breeding is a snake hole. Good accounting just makes it deeper.

[camohn]

Ugh. I had a long breakdown typed and it went into the black hole. Not doing it all again…so shorty version: on an average 1500 studfee it would be 4K to get on the ground and 9K to get to a 3 YO and my costs are lower than most because we have a lot of pasture and grow our own hay…so the value of the hay is not factored in there, nor is the value of the mare in the equation. That is just actual feeed/vet/etc. So for most folks that have to buy hay…would be much higher. Sometimes we use outside stallions, sometimes we use our own. We have a young and un provenstud at the moment/1st 2 foals are weaners now and had his sire before him. People always tell me “well at least it is free to use your own stallion”. If you factor in the stallion related costs (purchase and upkeep and general headaches related to keeping a stallion) it is far from free!!! In the long run it is probably cheaper to breed to someone elses horse and just pay the stud fee.

[toomanyponies]

I could send you my spreadsheet but I think you’d want to cry

I can say, if you can get a weanling on the ground for less than 6500, you must have your own land and be grazing a good portion of the year (ie no hay costs).

[HyperionStudLLC]

I would like to add one thing. You can get semen from top quality stallions who don’t have stud fees of 2k. I have an BWP Elite, Crown Erkend stallion by Indoctro= $1300/LFG fresh, BWP Approved stallion by Darco= $850/ LFG Fresh and a Cardento Stallion (going for approval in 2012)= $1100/ LFG fresh.

That starts your cost down, but as I find your biggest expense will be the Vet fees. Care of pregnant mare depends on your costs of feed, bedding and if you foal them out yourselves or not. I have made money on every foal I have sold. Prices for the foals have to be reasonable, and you have to start with quality mares before considering if you’re going to make $ or not. Well bred foals sell. It’s that easy!

Yes breeding is a risk and you don’t know what’s going to hit the ground but in the last 3 years of breeding we have had a total of 13 foals and I have sold 8 from weanling age to yearling age. If you have a solid foundation in the mares, choose your stallion wisely and don’t over produce in numbers, you can make money.

[Toadie_s_mom]

I stopped breeding after I was no longer able to start my babies under saddle myself. Up until then I thought I was coming out ahead.

[siegi_b]

At the risk of sounding “preachy”…

Make sure you have a very good mare with proven bloodlines and breed her to the best stud you can afford. Only then will you minimize the risk of producing a (less than) average foal that you won’t be able to sell. Mares from proven bloodlines also tend to be easy breeders because that is one of the requirements for being “proven”, so you will hopefully save some money on the getting pregnant part.

Also, find an experienced vet that has spend years breeding mares and has done so successfully.

Good luck!